Some big changes (Genshin Impact)

[Giannysmag]

Who the **** is Kami

God scaramouche

 

[Avengershows]

God scaramouche

Oh that twink

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Who the **** is Kami

He's basically God.

 

[Dog3352]

I honestly feel that Raiden's scaling can be ignored completely, as I have a slight impression that 500 years of combat using 6C attacks would easily dry up all the seas on a planet, unless there's something about "turning day into night" that I don't understand.

I'm disagreeing with everything for the same reasons as Everything12 (everything sounds very shallow, poetic and metaphorical) and for other personal reasons.

Am I the only one who thinks 95% of everything here seems like pure poetry and metaphor?

 

[ZENZUYA]

No metaphor, but yeah the time frame 500 years which is the main problem

We can consider this to be reality warp with alter time possible uses?

 

[Dog3352]

By the way, here is the original text of Raiden's feat, can anyone translate it to see if the translation is right?

 

[Aether2734]

It's been a while, guess it's right time to revive this thread.

 

[Aether2734]

I don't want to be sound like a d***head buy those CGM evaluated it way too early or careless tbh, yes even Executor as well

I don't remember you wrote this last time i've seen, are you editing your comment?

That was kinda rude to say. There's literally 3 cgm check it regularly, the heck is "too early or careless tbh"
Even Executor literally have some argument check it like three times just to make sure it's really fits. Like men DMUA also clearly check the criteria in the comments even correcting me about links, so do with migue. Saying this three cgm are "careless and too early" Kinda baseless assumption and bit rude to cgm works.

Incase you didn't know, there's actually 2 black hole feats in my accepted blog with 2 different character and way to create it. Both are accepted.

 

[Aether2734]

I am not trying to argue with raiden one (cause it's not my main reason to create this crt tbh) i will leave it and maybe create another seperate crt to replace it with another feats

So far I haven't seen any actual counter argument for black hole. I won't really count johnhendrix argument because johnhendrix are literally taking issue with the gameplay mechanics, also mention problematic about this which literally different thing from black hole item description.
(Which yes i put in my calculation blog but i just realize it's different thing, but fortunately the good news is according to DMUA it's already fits the criteria even without this different part thing).

Second, everything12 are agree with the black hole being literal but at other side also disagree with it by saying

"And they also show traits that realistic black holes don't."

Which i found it's nonexistent bases and really confused which part it's doesn't traits realistic. And he not replying all this time to my counter up comment.

Though from his all arguments i can make sure if he clueless with all this fontaine thing and make arguments based on johnhendrix game mechanics argument.

 

[Aether2734]

I will try explain it's again why the black holes are actually does based on the description itself

First

1. "Its actual weight far exceeds what would be expected given its size." -

Describes the fact that black holes are the result of matter being compressed into an infinitely small point called a singularity, meaning its weight can be leagues ahead of its size. For example, a black hole the size of a coin would weigh as much as the Earth, and many stellar-mass black holes heavier than the Sun will only be the size of a large city.

2. "Everything gathers around heavy objects, just as gold attracts more than iron, or the ground more than in the breeze blowing above."

It's figure of speech which literally mention about how a disk of matter gravity that orbits the event horizon characteristic, will absorb and crush everything it's pass to the core of black hole "heavy object".

3. Still same, stated even light can't escape from the vortex.

Which it's common knowledge everyone know if light can't escape from black hole

4. The item picture show a picture of a literal black hole shape which have tidal force, event horizon, and acceretion disc.

5. Literally named after black hole characteristic
"Lightless Eye of the Maelstrom"
Self explanatory about a vortex that even light can't escape

Bonus, what it's make more valid according to our true black hole page standar and Executor is, the narwhal was a literal star eater which confirmed by neuvilette and skirk itself which a reliable source, big enough to have entire space in his stomach to carry everything he devour and heavy enough to orbit an stellar also strays away from it. And executor say in the blog if it's make sense it's literal black hole if it was star devourer. (man, i ngl i am start thinking they should be straight up 4-C at this rate, infact this whale also exist in honkai star rail)

 

[Aether2734]

Nevermind i missinterperted something in your blog. Still the Low 5-B rating for Radiated waves is for Mag 10 while you said you were using Mag 8 which is High 6-A

I am proposing it was mag 8 but, based on feats i propose, Dark Carioca said it's should mag 10 which already become common reference feats.

No both Venti and Nahida blatently sate that the power archons get from their Gnosis is based on the faith their people have in them

This not really relevant tbh, both venti and focalors have the entire faith of their people until current time, and yet not even strong instead it's become weaker.
While scaramouche does not yet have beliefs faith and people but is said to have the power to rival the true god with the gnosis he have as core power.

Well my idea was that Dragon Neuvillette scales far above anyone else in we've seen in the verse anyway so his base is possibly High 6-A based on Raiden's feat while his full dragon self is possibly 5-C scaling from the moon sisters and upscaling massively from Raiden's feat

The combatans archons are still scale above moon sister somehow, for example geo archon stated have fully control power within every inch earth itself. Electro archon stated in gemstone if they have control of the world, perhaps this support by raiden statement if she capable of manipulating all storms across the entire world. And Egeria the original hydro archon even before become the archon have authority and full control to primordial sea which ever cover the entire planet.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

I don't remember you wrote this last time i've seen, are you editing your comment?

That was kinda rude to say. There's literally 3 cgm check it regularly, the heck is "too early or careless tbh"
Even Executor literally have some argument check it like three times just to make sure it's really fits. Like men DMUA also clearly check the criteria in the comments even correcting me about links, so do with migue. Saying this three cgm are "careless and too early" Kinda baseless assumption and bit rude to cgm works.

Because we have the other CGM as well and some of them might have a better understanding than the others
You may find this rude but what i think back then was we need more CGM need to evaluated it instead of three, since this is a controversial upgrade

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

I will try explain it's again why the black holes are actually does based on the description itself

First

Describes the fact that black holes are the result of matter being compressed into an infinitely small point called a singularity, meaning its weight can be leagues ahead of its size. For example, a black hole the size of a coin would weigh as much as the Earth, and many stellar-mass black holes heavier than the Sun will only be the size of a large city.


It's figure of speech which literally mention about how a disk of matter gravity that orbits the event horizon characteristic, will absorb and crush everything it's pass to the core of black hole "heavy object".


Which it's common knowledge everyone know if light can't escape from black hole

4. The item picture show a picture of a literal black hole shape which have tidal force, event horizon, and acceretion disc.

5. Literally named after black hole characteristic
"Lightless Eye of the Maelstrom"
Self explanatory about a vortex that even light can't escape

Bonus, what it's make more valid according to our true black hole page standar and Executor is, the narwhal was a literal star eater which confirmed by neuvilette itself which a reliable source, big enough to have entire space in his stomach to carry everything he devour and heavy enough to orbit an stellar also strays away from it. And executor say in the blog if it's make sense it's literal black hole if it was star devourer. (man, i ngl i am start thinking they should be straight up 4-C at this rate, infact this whale also exist in honkai star rail)

I am proposing it was mag 8 but, based on feats i propose, Dark Carioca said it's should mag 10 which already become common reference feats.

This not really relevant tbh, both venti and focalors have the entire faith of their people until current time, and yet not even strong instead it's become weaker.
While scaramouche does not yet have beliefs faith and people but is said to have the power to rival the true god with the gnosis he have as core power.

The combatans archons are still scale above moon sister somehow, for example geo archon stated have fully control power within every inch earth itself. Electro archon stated in gemstone if they have control of the world, perhaps this support by raiden statement if she capable of manipulating all storms across the entire world. And Egeria the original hydro archon even before become the archon have authority and full control to primordial sea which ever cover the entire planet.

I don't think this arguments wouldn't do much here but we'll see

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Tho a summary need to be make for easier understanding

 

[Dog3352]

The purpose of this post is to upgrade Genshin Impact God Tier and Top Tier Scalling.

Spoiler: God Tier Main Calculation

• Narwhall Black Hole (5-A)
• Shadow Lifting Strength (Class Y)

Spoiler: Outlier And Explanation

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Nawhall's feat of the black hole doesn't even make it possible to know if he can use it to climb, as there is no proof that the Traveler or Neuvilette were hit by the black hole.
The scale of the "Shadow Lifting" is forced, there is no proof that it is supporting the black hole with its strengh.

Main Feats by calculation was performed multiple times by three different character (Narwhall, Shadow, and Skirk) and yet skirk who was easily defeat narwhall mention if Neuvilette as sovereign dragon are equal to her. Infact by skirk statement there is lot stronger character than they're like surtalogi and hexenzirkel member who consider powerful being like Narwhall the star devourer as mere "pet". So it's should be consistent feats for god tier.

She says that because he didn't use the "power beyond this World" to defeat the Narwhall they can talk to her as equals, not that they are equal in power (this is probably just her having respect for Neuvilette because he doesn't having used this power, in addition to the statement being from even before Neuvillete got his authority and power as Sovereign Dragon back, and he even had help from the Traveller).

No, The narwhall are no stronger than sovereign dragon neuvilette, various character like above and primordial one once stated could seperate microcosm of world from the universe, and have war to sovereign dragon for 40 years, and got mention if celestia was "higher power" That create border between border between teyvat and universe.

Kind of weak proof, Genshin can constantly change what he's saying with a word, the word Teyvat itself is referred to as Planet/World and continent, and the fact that the word 'universe' and 'World Microcosm' are in quotation marks makes me doubt that is he really talking about the universe, or is it just a figure of speech (which there are plenty of in Genshin), and even if it were literal, even more so when it says he used the eggshell for this, and that would probably escalate as smurf hax.

By default this make Archon massively scale above other gods like three sister of moon which being a literal moon, and atleast comparable to sovereign dragon like Neuvilette itself and apep who has the entire world as teyvat blueprint inside herself and prime azdaha as vishap overlord of old world who multiple time got state by reliable statement if he can shake and split earth. Except for nahida and focalors in other case since both of them stated can't use gnosis in combat. So with this, prime archon with gnosis are scale to this, and gnosisless archon should be downscale from other feats.

Dragons were never declared superior to the Moon Sisters, climbing the Dragons or Archons above them makes no sense, they have no declared power, they have no feats, they obviously do not fit into the power level of the gods we see in Teyvat (Andrius, Orobaxi, Osial , etc), they did not participate in the War of the Archons, you cannot climb Archons above the Sister Moons just because they are goddesses, they are completely different from the gods of Teyvat.
I'm not sure if this "having an entire world inside oneself" thing scales to AP, but the world wasn't a "Teyvat blueprint", but just a place to give rise to its creatures, and taking into account the fact that it was just for its creatures, I don't think it's the size of Teyvat, especially when we look at the Realm.

Bonus, what it's make more valid according to our true black hole page standar and Executor is, the narwhal was a literal star eater which confirmed by neuvilette itself which a reliable source, big enough to have entire space in his stomach to carry everything he devour and heavy enough to orbit an stellar also strays away from it. And executor say in the blog if it's make sense it's literal black hole if it was star devourer. (man, i ngl i am start thinking they should be straight up 4-C at this rate, infact this whale also exist in honkai star rail)

This would only scale to its stomach/mouth (its ability to swallow stars), since star and planetary's constant statements are about its ability to swallow and apparently store stars.
I don't understand that third part, if it's about something like "Narwhall has a star in his stomach and therefore weighs as much as the star or more", I highly doubt it would scale, since the stomach is basically a dimension, and there's no proof that Whatever is inside weighs on Narwhall's body.

The combatans archons are still scale above moon sister somehow, for example geo archon stated have fully control power within every inch earth itself. Electro archon stated in gemstone if they have control of the world, perhaps this support by raiden statement if she capable of manipulating all storms across the entire world. And Egeria the original hydro archon even before become the archon have authority and full control to primordial sea which ever cover the entire planet.

It seems like a forced interpretation, it says that every inch of the earth has geo power, but that few are able to exercise such powers, according to my interpretation, it is talking about exercising geo power using the land of the planet, What makes sense, since the description is of an ability that creates a pillar (which definitely doesn't use all the land on the planet), and the fact that only Zhongli and the Traveler appear to be the only geo characters who can use the land of the planet.
"Absolute Control of the World" doesn't really seem like an AP statement honestly, especially when it seems to be a metaphorical statement, since it's talking about Raiden Shogun's ideologies.
The reason Egeria is able to use the Primordial Sea to create life is because she was created to be Neuvilette's replacement as "Heart of the Primordial Sea". By "control over the Primordial Sea" are you talking about the ability to create life using the Primordial Sea? Well, I only remember Egeria doing this with the Primordial Sea.

Spoiler: Top Tier Main Calculation

• Ei vs Shogun Average Clash Energy (H6-A)

Spoiler: Top tier Affect scalling

undefined

Why the hell does this affect Yelan, Xiao and Signora? None of them could even beat a God (like Osial, Andrius, Osial's Wife, etc.) according to their deeds/declarations (Signora lost to Traveler after arriving in Inazuma, Xiao is definitely beaten by Osial, he doesn't even have deeds to win Osial's wife, Yelan just dropped a rock that the Traveler had already attacked without using any element, besides being the post-inazuma Traveler, who doesn't even climb to mountain level), how would they climb to Raiden?
Inazuma Traveler only has his 6C key with Vision AMP, without it he is beaten by Raiden.

 

[Smashtwig]

Inazuma Traveler only has his 6C key with Vision AMP, without it he is beaten by Raiden.

On this specific note I do agree with this, no part of the Yae Miki Anti Raiden training involves increasing attack potency at all. The training focused on specifically learning Raiden's attack patterns, and sometimes fighting weak slices to get used to attacking while dodging

 

[Aether2734]

Because we have the other CGM as well and some of them might have a better understanding than the others
You may find this rude but what i think back then was we need more CGM need to evaluated it instead of three, since this is a controversial upgrade

Normally you already fine with one cgm to do evaluation, my calculation literally has 3, particularly rare calculation blog having 3 cgm evaluated, even it was controversial, it's more than enough having three cgm at the same time. I was specifically asking this three cgm cause they was who was knowledge member about black hole criteria since past, fortunately 3 of them give reply. Especially executor, as DDM say executor is comparable to Don'Talk in term of black hole criteria. I can't really find any reason why we even doubt about when it was clearly mention it's criteria.

 

[Aether2734]

Nawhall's feat of the black hole doesn't even make it possible to know if he can use it to climb, as there is no proof that the Traveler or Neuvilette were hit by the black hole.

Bro, the whale and skirk literally effortlessly create this "weight far exceeds what would be expected given its size" and throw it like it's nothing, clearly scale to their statistic.

"there is no proof that the Traveler or Neuvilette were hit by the black hole"
Why this is even matter?

It's doesn't even need to hit them. They atleast having LS supperior or not far from skirk who literally strong enough to carry and throw it black hole. On other side shadow have it in his chest carrying it all the time. Last incase of anything, it say even neuvilette have protection from getting hit from this.

The scale of the "Shadow Lifting" is forced, there is no proof that it is supporting the black hole with its strengh.

Like men, you standing and sprint when carry a massive "weight of thing" All the time Like nothing in your chest and saying it's not scale to their statistics especially lifting strength, he even have one in his sword ...man what kind of joke is this, pretty simple logic i can tell, even if this was a telekinesis it's still scale.

She says that because he didn't use the "power beyond this World" to defeat the Narwhall they can talk to her as equals, not that they are equal in power (this is probably just her having respect for Neuvilette because he doesn't having used this power, in addition to the statement being from even before Neuvillete got his authority and power as Sovereign Dragon back, and he even had help from the Traveller).

Skirk have pride where she will not attractively talk to weaklings just like in tartaglia case. Whatever she respect or not, she already treat it as equal. "Power from beyond this world" Are reffering to abyss power which mainly use by herself as habitants from abyss. Nibelung who was one of the sovereign also using this to fight celestia, and yet neuvilette as sovereign strong enough to beat this whale just mere with his own power.
What ever you said, they still scale each other because their power gap unquinfitable and aren't far as you thing.
He share power sovereign to traveler so they can found way to attack the source of the power because the beast was gigantic, not he can't beat the whalewhale alone, the traveler were mere supporting. In the teater he clearly state himself already have power to defeat this whale after have back his authority.

Kind of weak proof, Genshin can constantly change what he's saying with a word, the word Teyvat itself is referred to as Planet/World and continent, and the fact that the word 'universe' and 'World Microcosm' are in quotation marks makes me doubt that is he really talking about the universe, or is it just a figure of speech (which there are plenty of in Genshin), and even if it were literal, even more so when it says he used the eggshell for this, and that would probably escalate as smurf hax.

There's a thing called as teyvat barrier, not wrong saying teyvat can reffering to many thing. But in the primordial one case, it's not reffering to planet, continent or any else. Teyvat was also a realm world that has it own laws,
different time (Traveler Profile voiceline about teyvat) moons, sun, and full of stars seperate from the universe which hence called as microcosm, this microsom are reffering to teyvat as realm isolated from the universe. Abyss realm also state as continent, but we also literally know if the abyss was also called as other world and have endless depth of darkness abyss.

Dragons were never declared superior to the Moon Sisters, climbing the Dragons or Archons above them makes no sense, they have no declared power, they have no feats, they obviously do not fit into the power level of the gods we see in Teyvat (Andrius, Orobaxi, Osial , etc), they did not participate in the War of the Archons, you cannot climb Archons above the Sister Moons just because they are goddesses, they are completely different from the gods of Teyvat.
I'm not sure if this "having an entire world inside oneself" thing scales to AP, but the world wasn't a "Teyvat blueprint", but just a place to give rise to its creatures, and taking into account the fact that it was just for its creatures, I don't think it's the size of Teyvat, especially when we look at the Realm.

Broo What???????? Did you even read the actual story of genshin at this rate???
Man seriously, sovereign dragon literally the ones who war with primordial one and it's 4 shades, 4 shades already state as higher power from gods. Three moons literally just part of creation new world created by primordial one along with sun (mentioned in staff of scarlet sands). How in the actual f................ you can jump in conclusions this dragons are not even stronger than the sister of moons
i know if the archons are arguable though i am already give reason they scale above, but saying this dragons are not??? I feel speechless can't think how your scalling goes at this rate even after you know all of the entire narrative story.

This would only scale to its stomach/mouth (its ability to swallow stars), since star and planetary's constant statements are about its ability to swallow and apparently store stars.
I don't understand that third part, if it's about something like "Narwhall has a star in his stomach and therefore weighs as much as the star or more", I highly doubt it would scale, since the stomach is basically a dimension, and there's no proof that Whatever is inside weighs on Narwhall's body.

i am really speechless at this rate seeing how you define an AP. Whatever he store everything inside his stomach, he already eat a star, his mouth strong enough to eat it. You said,

"the stomach is basically a dimension, and there's no proof that Whatever is inside weighs on Narwhall's body"

If you play the entire quest, wouldn't you remember if neuvilette blatantly state his size and from stomach are his main source power? When we done fighting shadow we literally break it's core power and weakened the whale. If this stomach are other pocket dimension, by default everything inside his stomacth wouldn't effect his entire body and weight cause it's already different pocket dimension, but we know it does.

It seems like a forced interpretation, it says that every inch of the earth has geo power, but that few are able to exercise such powers, according to my interpretation, it is talking about exercising geo power using the land of the planet, What makes sense, since the description is of an ability that creates a pillar (which definitely doesn't use all the land on the planet), and the fact that only Zhongli and the Traveler appear to be the only geo characters who can use the land of the planet.

It mention every inch of earth are filled with geo energy, which we know geo means earth/rock/lands manipulation element. You missed the whole point when it say who can wield "such powers" freely are few and far between.

"Absolute Control of the World" doesn't really seem like an AP statement honestly, especially when it seems to be a metaphorical statement, since it's talking about Raiden Shogun's ideologies.

I know it's sound like metaphocarically, but according me it was like reffering to her can manipulate all storms across the entire world as in the profile which in line with geo one. The shogun ideologies was "eternity" How it comes with control of the world? i can't really think what correlation between it.

The reason Egeria is able to use the Primordial Sea to create life is because she was created to be Neuvilette's replacement as "Heart of the Primordial Sea". By "control over the Primordial Sea" are you talking about the ability to create life using the Primordial Sea? Well, I only remember Egeria doing this with the Primordial Sea.

Creates life just one of the ability of primordial sea could do, if you know more deep about primordial sea there is lot thing primordial sea could do. For example it can merged consciousness and soul like remurian people do.
The point is they were a "beating heart" that controlled/command the Primordial Sea"

Incase you didn't know, they already scale above Narzissenkreuz who not even a god but yet have full control of entire primordial sea.

Why the hell does this affect Yelan, Xiao and Signora? None of them could even beat a God (like Osial, Andrius, Osial's Wife, etc.) according to their deeds/declarations (Signora lost to Traveler after arriving in Inazuma, Xiao is definitely beaten by Osial, he doesn't even have deeds to win Osial's wife, Yelan just dropped a rock that the Traveler had already attacked without using any element, besides being the post-inazuma Traveler, who doesn't even climb to mountain level), how would they climb to Raiden?
Inazuma Traveler only has his 6C key with Vision AMP, without it he is beaten by Raiden.

I am also clueless tbh about this scaling, i am just following the scaling crt made by giannysmag and his request to add character scalling before. But the last i can say xiao probably would still scale, due he using weapon that zhongli made to defeat spesific god, and as yaksha he fought many fallen gods and monster from archon war.

Traveler also have other 6-C key before not only in inazuma vision buff, he still can toe toe with shouki no kami (though bit weaker) which blatantly state have power rival to true gods

 

[Dog3352]

Bro, the whale and skirk literally effortlessly create this "weight far exceeds what would be expected given its size" and throw it like it's nothing, clearly scale to their statistic.

My point wasn't whether Squirk scales to this, but rather Neuvillette or Traveler (more specifically, with Neuvillete's power).

It's doesn't even need to hit them. They atleast having LS supperior or not far from skirk who literally strong enough to carry and throw it black hole. On other side shadow have it in his chest carrying it all the time. Last incase of anything, it say even neuvilette have protection from getting hit from this.

I was talking specifically about durability scaling, and I still don't know if having this black hole floating in the body or sword scales to physical strength.

Like men, you standing and sprint when carry a massive "weight of thing" All the time Like nothing in your chest and saying it's not scale to their statistics especially lifting strength, he even have one in his sword ...man what kind of joke is this, pretty simple logic i can tell, even if this was a telekinesis it's still scale.

The black hole is floating, my point is that nothing indicates that it is supporting the weight with its strength, and not that it wouldn't climb, and we don't even know if it can be called telekinesis, because in several moments we see that the powers leave a certain "magic" around the item when it floats.

Skirk have pride where she will not attractively talk to weaklings just like in tartaglia case. Whatever she respect or not, she already treat it as equal. "Power from beyond this world" Are reffering to abyss power which mainly use by herself as habitants from abyss. Nibelung who was one of the sovereign also using this to fight celestia, and yet neuvilette as sovereign strong enough to beat this whale just mere with his own power.
What ever you said, they still scale each other because their power gap unquinfitable and aren't far as you thing.
He share power sovereign to traveler so they can found way to attack the source of the power because the beast was gigantic, not he can't beat the whalewhale alone, the traveler were mere supporting. In the teater he clearly state himself already have power to defeat this whale after have back his authority.

I'm not denying that Neuvillete is as strong as her, I'm just saying that that's not what she declares, if you put context saying reasons why they are both equally powerful (like what you said here), it would be easier to understand.
I didn't exactly think they were that far away from each other in power, I just wasn't agreeing with her declaring that they are both equally powerful.
I'm talking about Neuvillete without the authority and true power, since he had help from the Traveler.

There's a thing called as teyvat barrier, not wrong saying teyvat can reffering to many thing. But in the primordial one case, it's not reffering to planet, continent or any else. Teyvat was also a realm world that has it own laws,
different time (Traveler Profile voiceline about teyvat) moons, sun, and full of stars seperate from the universe which hence called as microcosm, this microsom are reffering to teyvat as realm isolated from the universe. Abyss realm also state as continent, but we also literally know if the abyss was also called as other world and have endless depth of darkness abyss.

Here I just wanted to know if with universe you are talking about the universe or the planet, since they are constantly using metaphors.

Broo What???????? Did you even read the actual story of genshin at this rate???
Man seriously, sovereign dragon literally the ones who war with primordial one and it's 4 shades, 4 shades already state as higher power from gods. Three moons literally just part of creation new world created by primordial one along with sun (mentioned in staff of scarlet sands). How in the actual f................ you can jump in conclusions this dragons are not even stronger than the sister of moons
i know if the archons are arguable though i am already give reason they scale above, but saying this dragons are not??? I feel speechless can't think how your scalling goes at this rate even after you know all of the entire narrative story.

I wasn't mentioning dragons as weaker, I just wanted to use the Primordial Dragons as examples, since the Moon Sisters don't have feats or statements that can be scaled as "below such characters" or "above such characters", I'm mainly talking about about the Archons climbing to them.

i am really speechless at this rate seeing how you define an AP. Whatever he store everything inside his stomach, he already eat a star, his mouth strong enough to eat it. You said,

I mean that your star level declarations wouldn't scale to your power if there wasn't something to back it up.

If you play the entire quest, wouldn't you remember if neuvilette blatantly state his size and from stomach are his main source power? When we done fighting shadow we literally break it's core power and weakened the whale. If this stomach are other pocket dimension, by default everything inside his stomacth wouldn't effect his entire body and weight cause it's already different pocket dimension, but we know it does.

More or less like this (I didn't play the mission, I stopped playing Genshin a while ago, and I'm still thinking about whether I'll play again).

It mention every inch of earth are filled with geo energy, which we know geo means earth/rock/lands manipulation element. You missed the whole point when it say who can wield "such powers" freely are few and far between.

The problem is that it doesn't talk about exerting geo power on every inch of the earth, but just exercising the power, and the interpretation I said doesn't seem to be exactly wrong, since the description is of a pillar that uses the geo energy of the earth land, and that few Geos characters do this. But taking into account that Raiden controls all the storms in the world, I don't doubt that it really is the case that he is able to control any inch of the earth.

I know it's sound like metaphocarically, but according me it was like reffering to her can manipulate all storms across the entire world as in the profile which in line with geo one. The shogun ideologies was "eternity" How it comes with control of the world? i can't really think what correlation between it.

I didn't mean that it's metaphorical fitting into your ideology, but rather a metaphor for something else, like your ability to control storms around the world (as you mentioned).

Creates life just one of the ability of primordial sea could do, if you know more deep about primordial sea there is lot thing primordial sea could do. For example it can merged consciousness and soul like remurian people do.
The point is they were a "beating heart" that controlled/command the Primordial Sea"

Incase you didn't know, they already scale above Narzissenkreuz who not even a god but yet have full control of entire primordial sea.

I just want to say that the reason she controlled the Primordial Sea was because she was the Heart of the Primordial Sea.

I am also clueless tbh about this scaling, i am just following the scaling crt made by giannysmag and his request to add character scalling before. But the last i can say xiao probably would still scale, due he using weapon that zhongli made to defeat spesific god, and as yaksha he fought many fallen gods and monster from archon war.

Traveler also have other 6-C key before not only in inazuma vision buff, he still can toe toe with shouki no kami (though bit weaker) which blatantly state have power rival to true gods

I don't remember Xiao defeating a God in the lore, and even if he did, I don't think a random God would scale to Archons with gnosis. The Yakshas only fight against the hatred of the fallen gods (not fallen gods, but their hatred), which they don't even have, the hatred of a fallen god was even defeated by Shenhe Child, so he definitely wouldn't climb.

Archons (without gnosis)>>>>>>>>>> Gods that the archons fought against in the lore (they beat them without difficulty basically, in addition to the gods only having feats and statements of maximum island level)>>>> >>>>>>> Remnants of gods (the strongest remnant we saw is that of Kapatcir, who if I'm not mistaken, had a mountain-island level feat)>>>>>>>>>>>> Xiao (Xiao's only feats are defeating the hatred of the gods, who are absurdly weak compared to even his remnants, besides not even having done).

Shouko no Kami only takes place in Sumeru, not Inazuma.

 

[Aether2734]

My point wasn't whether Squirk scales to this, but rather Neuvillette or Traveler (more specifically, with Neuvillete's power).

I was talking specifically about durability scaling, and I still don't know if having this black hole floating in the body or sword scales to physical strength.

The black hole is floating, my point is that nothing indicates that it is supporting the weight with its strength, and not that it wouldn't climb, and we don't even know if it can be called telekinesis, because in several moments we see that the powers leave a certain "magic" around the item when it floats.

Bro literally swing a black hole like nothing and saying nothing it does supporting it's weight, while skirk also doing it. Even if "magic" Could do this, it's still their power, the magic still able to lift it, though idk what and which "magic" you said in here.

I'm not denying that Neuvillete is as strong as her, I'm just saying that that's not what she declares, if you put context saying reasons why they are both equally powerful (like what you said here), it would be easier to understand.
I didn't exactly think they were that far away from each other in power, I just wasn't agreeing with her declaring that they are both equally powerful.
I'm talking about Neuvillete without the authority and true power, since he had help from the Traveler.

We're arguing for much paragraph by your logical scalling

not that they are equal in power (this is probably just her having respect for Neuvilette because he doesn't having used this power, in addition to the statement being from even before Neuvillete got his authority and power as Sovereign Dragon back, and he even had help from the Traveller).

Dragons were never declared superior to the Moon Sisters, climbing the Dragons or Archons above them makes no sense

, and then say "I'm not denying that Neuvillete is as strong as her"
What do you mean by this even. I already put the context in the op clearly though

Here I just wanted to know if with universe you are talking about the universe or the planet, since they are constantly using metaphors.

It's pretty much clear where's to refer going from the context

I wasn't mentioning dragons as weaker, I just wanted to use the Primordial Dragons as examples, since the Moon Sisters don't have feats or statements that can be scaled as "below such characters" or "above such characters", I'm mainly talking about about the Archons climbing to them.

You do mention it. I'm already put my reason in the op, Gnosis become portion power of soverein itself already massive supporting why it does. Plus, the origin behind gnosis itself is made by celestia and to surpess absolute order and continue to subdue and control the of the world due celestia heavily injuries after fight the sovereign for the second time (Neuvillite story profile about vision). It's already pretty much clear why archon above all gods.

I mean that your star level declarations wouldn't scale to your power if there wasn't something to back it up.

It's pretty much does

More or less like this (I didn't play the mission, I stopped playing Genshin a while ago, and I'm still thinking about whether I'll play again).

I recommend to play fontaine archon quest, it has great story though seem you see too much spoiler.

The problem is that it doesn't talk about exerting geo power on every inch of the earth, but just exercising the power, and the interpretation I said doesn't seem to be exactly wrong, since the description is of a pillar that uses the geo energy of the earth land, and that few Geos characters do this. But taking into account that Raiden controls all the storms in the world, I don't doubt that it really is the case that he is able to control any inch of the earth.

It's talking about every inch of land, if they only talking about only few cubic meters or kilometers land, they wouldn't use "such powers". Few geos it mention was referring to archon itself, azdaha, and origin geo sovereign as the master geo. Though azdaha could do same thing, like shake planet and affect the entire earth by leylines.

I don't remember Xiao defeating a God in the lore, and even if he did, I don't think a random God would scale to Archons with gnosis. The Yakshas only fight against the hatred of the fallen gods (not fallen gods, but their hatred), which they don't even have, the hatred of a fallen god was even defeated by Shenhe Child, so he definitely wouldn't climb.

Archons (without gnosis)>>>>>>>>>> Gods that the archons fought against in the lore (they beat them without difficulty basically, in addition to the gods only having feats and statements of maximum island level)>>>> >>>>>>> Remnants of gods (the strongest remnant we saw is that of Kapatcir, who if I'm not mistaken, had a mountain-island level feat)>>>>>>>>>>>> Xiao (Xiao's only feats are defeating the hatred of the gods, who are absurdly weak compared to even his remnants, besides not even having done).

Shouko no Kami only takes place in Sumeru, not Inazuma.

I don't how but, seem you forgot if 6-C rating not from archon itself. I don't remember kapatchir have such feats at mountain-island level, she has bigger feats like shake earth core (from ruu quest) and create storm around yashiori island that even last more than 500 years. Xiao not only defeat fallen/hatred gods, but also normal gods, though we didn't know exactly cause random gods are too varies, shenhe defeat one just essence left from fallen gods. The likely/possible rating is the best it can suit perhaps, cause xiao also an adepti, and adepti like cloud rentainer and many else are oftenly supporting morax.

 

[JohnHendrix212]

Again, I've already refuted using items as arguments for 5-A scaling. It's bunk. Move on from it.

 

[Aether2734]

Again, I've already refuted using items as arguments for 5-A scaling. It's bunk. Move on from it.

When? All you refute is only game mechanic and an item that even not actual part of it. I give you counter argument and you not even reply it. How do i suppose to take it seriously even. Unless you have new argument to bring here, i am not expected the same circular reasoning.

Though from last time, you admit just play at the sumeru, and clueless about all this fontaine thing.

 

[Dog3352]

We're arguing for much paragraph by your logical scalling

, and then say "I'm not denying that Neuvillete is as strong as her"
What do you mean by this even. I already put the context in the op clearly though

I didn't deny that Neuvilette is as strong as her, I know the link just shows that as Neuvilette didn't use the power of the abyss, they can talk as equals, not that they are both equivalent in power, that's why I said that. And as I said, the second one I wanted to use dragons just as an example.

You do mention it. I'm already put my reason in the op, Gnosis become portion power of soverein itself already massive supporting why it does. Plus, the origin behind gnosis itself is made by celestia and to surpess absolute order and continue to subdue and control the of the world due celestia heavily injuries after fight the sovereign for the second time (Neuvillite story profile about vision). It's already pretty much clear why archon above all gods

I don't understand, do you want to climb Zhongli without gnosis to a small planet? If Azhdaha's calculation is for a small planet, and Zhongli is equivalent to Azhdaha only in his prime (with gnosis), then this would not make sense, since he is currently weaker and without gnosis.

I recommend to play fontaine archon quest, it has great story though seem you see too much spoiler.

I'm unlikely to play, I just bought Far Cry 4, Gta V and Left 4 Dead 2, and I'm more excited to play these games.

I don't how but, seem you forgot if 6-C rating not from archon itself. I don't remember kapatchir have such feats at mountain-island level, she has bigger feats like shake earth core (from ruu quest) and create storm around yashiori island that even last more than 500 years. Xiao not only defeat fallen/hatred gods, but also normal gods, though we didn't know exactly cause random gods are too varies, shenhe defeat one just essence left from fallen gods. The likely/possible rating is the best it can suit perhaps, cause xiao also an adepti, and adepti like cloud rentainer and many else are oftenly supporting morax.

When the remnant of Kapatcir was freed, he summoned a storm that geographically changed an island (I don't remember which one it was). I didn't understand the link, can you send something that proves that Xiao defeated a God? He would literally be absurdly humiliated by Osial, who only has mountain or island level statements. Being an Adeptus isn't exactly proving anything, as the Adeptus think a mountain-level feat from Zhongli is a great show of strength.

I really don't see in any way characters like Xiao, Signora or Yelan climbing to something island level or higher.

 

[Aether2734]

I didn't deny that Neuvilette is as strong as her, I know the link just shows that as Neuvilette didn't use the power of the abyss, they can talk as equals, not that they are both equivalent in power, that's why I said that. And as I said, the second one I wanted to use dragons just as an example.

Okay, i count that as agreement then

I don't understand, do you want to climb Zhongli without gnosis to a small planet? If Azhdaha's calculation is for a small planet, and Zhongli is equivalent to Azhdaha only in his prime (with gnosis), then this would not make sense, since he is currently weaker and without gnosis.

No, i purpose him in archon stats, cause this was mention about his archonhood and those who are equal, i mean only archon itself and the dragons that have original authority to the entire elements. we didn't know his strength before and after retired become an archon, as i put in op for supporting, he clearly state when he lose gnosis he lost significant power.

When the remnant of Kapatcir was freed, he summoned a storm that geographically changed an island (I don't remember which one it was). I didn't understand the link, can you send something that proves that Xiao defeated a God? He would literally be absurdly humiliated by Osial, who only has mountain or island level statements. Being an Adeptus isn't exactly proving anything, as the Adeptus think a mountain-level feat from Zhongli is a great show of strength.

My bad wrong link, this what i mention about. His power great enough to trembling gods and demon. Though just same as above, gods in archon war liyue too varies in power. Perhaps possibly rating could work atleast

I really don't see in any way characters like Xiao, Signora or Yelan climbing to something island level or higher.

I agree with this somehow with signora and yelan tbh.

 

[Dog3352]

No, i purpose him in archon stats, cause this was mention about his archonhood and those who are equal, i mean only archon itself and the dragons that have original authority to the entire elements. we didn't know his strength before and after retired become an archon, as i put in op for supporting, he clearly state when he lose gnosis he lost significant power.

What scale exactly do you want to give Zhongli?

My bad wrong link, this what i mention about. His power great enough to trembling gods and demon. Though just same as above, gods in archon war liyue too varies in power. Perhaps possibly rating could work atleast

I think Xiao should only receive a mountain level, if Osial, a God who needed the power of the Adeptus and Xiao, Nigguang, Traveler, and throw the jade chamber to beat him receives an island level at best, I think Xiao, even if 'possibly' island level would be an exaggeration, but I can see Xiao being mountain level.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Asked to comment here but I have next to no knowledge on this verse (thought about getting into it though but too busy). While the calcs got accepted, it seems the legitimacy of the Black Hole feat is in question so that would need to be solved. I can't comment on scaling due to lack of knowledge so that falls on the knowledgeable members who know the characters, but whatever is decided upon by them, I don't won't have an issue in that regard.

 

[Aether2734]

Asked to comment here but I have next to no knowledge on this verse (thought about getting into it though but too busy). While the calcs got accepted, it seems the legitimacy of the Black Hole feat is in question so that would need to be solved. I can't comment on scaling due to lack of knowledge so that falls on the knowledgeable members who know the characters, but whatever is decided upon by them, I don't won't have an issue in that regard.

As for black hole i believe it could be fine atleast from cause it's evaluated by 3 knowledge black hole term cgm, and it doesn't really have actual counter argument so far, in short summary, as i mention above, the issue some people take is issue about the black hole being an item drop boss that was put in the mc bag, which in narrative story it's never actually happen (Like the mc doesn't even actually have backpack, the "bag" merely just part of game mechanic to restore item since it was open world games). Also getting issue with item that was seperate and doesn't really have correlation with the black hole item thing. So i think it's doesn't even debunk the legitimate being black hole.

Beside this for legitimate black hole, i am currently also trying to provide for 4-C rating for this simple confirmed eating star reason (which this also become massive supporting evidence for black hole legitimate according to Executor_N0)

Bonus, what it's make more valid according to our true black hole page standar and Executor is, the narwhal was a literal star eater which confirmed by neuvilette and skirk itself which a reliable source, big enough to have entire space in his stomach to carry everything he devour and heavy enough to orbit an stellar also strays away from it. And executor say in the blog if it's make sense it's literal black hole if it was star devourer. (man, i ngl i am start thinking they should be straight up 4-C at this rate, infact this whale also exist in honkai star rail)

is that fine atleast?

 

[Aether2734]

What scale exactly do you want to give Zhongli?

I think Xiao should only receive a mountain level, if Osial, a God who needed the power of the Adeptus and Xiao, Nigguang, Traveler, and throw the jade chamber to beat him receives an island level at best, I think Xiao, even if 'possibly' island level would be an exaggeration, but I can see Xiao being mountain level.

It's not only zhongli what i mention actually, but all combatants archons with gnosis. Which gnosis are stated as portion power of sovereign dragon itself. It should be scale to dragons (though not fully) and being above any gods also this moon sisters

 

[Tyranno223]

Okay, i count that as agreement then

No, i purpose him in archon stats, cause this was mention about his archonhood and those who are equal, i mean only archon itself and the dragons that have original authority to the entire elements. we didn't know his strength before and after retired become an archon, as i put in op for supporting, he clearly state when he lose gnosis he lost significant power.

My bad wrong link, this what i mention about. His power great enough to trembling gods and demon. Though just same as above, gods in archon war liyue too varies in power. Perhaps possibly rating could work atleast

I agree with this somehow with signora and yelan tbh.

I'm not sure how canon we consider the ascension system, but if you fully ascend Zhongli, he says he's returned to a level of strength he did not think he'd see again without his gnosis.

 

[Aether2734]

I'm not sure how canon we consider the ascension system, but if you fully ascend Zhongli, he says he's returned to a level of strength he did not think he'd see again without his gnosis.

Probably yeah, but it's same like neuvillite ascension which pretty much reffering his same power to his dragonhood state.

 

[Aether2734]

Possible bump

 

[Tyranno223]

Probably yeah, but it's same like neuvillite ascension which pretty much reffering his same power to his dragonhood state.

So would the Archon key be something like

With Gnosis/At Final Ascension

 

[GarrixianXD]

A strange "substance" obtained from fighting against the All-Devouring Narwhal. Its actual weight far exceeds what would be expected given its size. Everything gathers around heavy objects, just as gold attracts more than iron, or the ground more than in the breeze blowing above. Just as light cannot escape from the vortex of darkness, cause and effect is attached to fate, perhaps irreversibly so.

I'm sure that alone should prove that it should work the same as a black hole.

 

[Aether2734]

I'm sure that alone should prove that it should work the same as a black hole.

Yeah i believe so, i mean even cgm agreed about it. Really confused when people disagree about nonexistent anti feats.

 

[Harith0cell]

So who will scale to this feat?

 

[Aether2734]

So who will scale to this feat?

Mostly combatants archon, traveler, and above like neuvilette. But I guess, i will create another thread soon for new topic tier and scaling.