So... Shadow Fight is being wanked...

[Starter_Pack]

Well, I stumbled across this verse due to random browsing, and I realized that this entire verse is being wanked like nothing else.

See, everyone in the verse is currently 5-B, scaling from Volcano who was said to have stated that he could destroy the earth with his power. However, when you look at the picture that links to this statement here, you can see that Volcano's statement refered to him scorching the surface of the earth with his flames, rather than blowing it up altogether.

In the absolute best case scenario, this would immediately downgrade the verse to High 6-A, in accordance to this calculation for wiping the surface of the planet. However, since we don't know the timeframe in which he could wipe out the surface of the Earth, it is very likely a lot less than this. At the end of the day, I would like the supporters of this verse to come together and attempt to figure out a new source of AP. Because either way, they are absolutely not 5-B anymore.

 

[Wokistan]

Probably "at most High 6-A". At Most accounts for that it's ultimately an assumption that it's done all at once.

 

[The_Calaca]

This seems to be fine. Someone who has played all the games should know a better scaling.

 

[Starter_Pack]

Right. That makes sense.

I'll begin contacting supporters for the verse so they can chip in on this.

 

[Dienomite22]

I agree. Also, Titan (Shadow Fight)'s AP reasoning doesn't look 5-B either.

 

[Elizhaa]

I think Eternals would be 5-B scaling from Shadow at least. I think there was a statement that Eternals were more powerful than Titan (Shadow Fight) but I can't found the scan yet which be earlier the underworld's story.

Yeah, wiping the surface of the planet is not a good justifcation for 5-B.

 

[Elizhaa]

I agree. Also, Titan (Shadow Fight)'s AP reasoning doesn't look 5-B either.

Why, though? The Statements on his profile look valid. Burning a planet like Earth to ash is 5-B and there is a calculation that support it on his profile.

 

[Drite77]

I think that the main problem is that we never saw he doing it?

 

[Starter_Pack]

Honestly, actually having a statement of destroying a planet rather than wiping the surface of it already does Titan a lot of favors over Volcano.

 

[Elizhaa]

I think that the main problem is that we never saw he doing it?

I updated my post. The Statements on his profiles look valid. We accepted valid Statements for Attack Potency.

 

[Starter_Pack]

I agree with Elizhaa. Unlike Volcano, Titan actually has a good statement for vaporizing a planet, which would indeed justify 5-B.

So, my suggestion is to link everyone to Titan rather than Volcano. I believe that will be more than satisfactory.

 

[Elizhaa]

I agree with your suggestion, Starter Pack. All the Eternals at 5-B should be powerscale to Shadow

 

[Dienomite22]

Why, though? Burning a planet like Earth to ash is 5-B and there is a calculation that support it on his profile.

The actual wording isn't very solid.

"Should you lose this battle, Titans won't need the champion's energy-he'll have yours. Any world finding itself in his way will be reduced to ashes." That doesn't sound literal. Flowery villain non-sense but maybe context would help explain why it should be taken as literal.

The second quote is literall in the context of Titan controlling challengers who attempted to defeat him in the past. Titan uses them to "devastate their own homeworlds". That isn't 5-B. We don't know what "devastating" even means here but its likely not anything 5-B.

I don't know the context regarding the last quote in his 5-B justification but the wording by itself doesn't normally suggest 5-B.

 

[Elizhaa]

I guess the second video scan is wrong so I am fine if it is removed. I will replied more later.

 

[Dienomite22]

Ok. If you are willing, please also explain the justification behind the Tier 2 rating. I looked at the CRT and saw the justification for Tenebris. It only looks to be 5-B likely 3-B, possibly Low 2-C.

 

[Dashio_Tessai]

woah I just got home and saw this

Now since Volcano, Megalith, Fungus and Vortex are defeated by Shadow before he even defeated Titan, this would downscale all of the Shadow Demons (excluding Titan) to High 6-A. After Shadow defeated Titan, he still fought all of the four previously named Eternals, when they were tasked with defending Fatum's artifacts, so that would still make them 5-B.

I agree with the Tenebris' tiering aswell mentioned by Dienomite.

I feel I was pretty biased when i made the CRTs back in day, like the 2-B CRT had 1 person outside of me commenting on it, that person being Ant, and when I mentioned 2-B tier for Tenebris with Word of God he went "yeah this looks fine", so I added it. I'm not blaming him though, he might have just took a quick look at it, since he is a pretty busy guy, and moved forward to other stuff.

 

[Dashio_Tessai]

On another note, before Shadow fought Titan, Titan ordered his bodyguards to fight him. He describes these bodyguards as being Shadow's dark halves who, too, survived the Gates of Shadows (1, 2 , 3). With the exception of one of them, each of these dark halves mention the name of a Shadow Demon of thier individual world (this version of Shadow states that he took over the Order (by killing Lynx), and did away with Sensei and May; this version of Shadow mentions how he adopted the children of Butcher; version of Shadow took over Wasp's fleet this version of Shadow took over Wasp's fleet ; this version of Shadow took over Shogun's kingdom by killing him). Do we consider these copies of Shadow as coming from the same universe as Shadow's, or not (as if they come from parallel universes)? If we do consider them as coming from different universes, then that means Tenebris created not just one universe (Shadow's), but 4 more; 5 if we consider the dark half named Master to have come from his own universe aswell, one where he killed Hermit.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

So I went through the character catalogue, and yeah the verse requires massive revisions:

• Shadow 5-B key: defeated Titan before he managed to amp himself with the Shadow's essence to be reduce any world who opposes him to ashes. (Questionable, so he fought an unamped opponent who is likely less than 5-B after he amps? A "reduce the world to ashes" statement more likely refers to reducing the surface of a planet to ashes rather than literally vaporizing an entire planet)
• Shadow 2-B key: Defeated Tenebris who claims to have created entire worlds and forged its light and darkness. (Questionable. Not sure about the lore, but after defeating Tenebris, the portal Tenebris is guarding gives Shadow and his companions the ability to mold and shape reality, so maybe Tenebris was using the portal as a tool for his universal feats instead of using his own power? It seems like Tenebris said that he is using the portal for his creation feats)
• Descendant High 8-B key: Compared to the Emperor's shadow energy attack. (What 8-B shadow energy attack? The only thing this can refer to is the special attack associated with the Emperor's weapon which doesn't look 8-B, or the Emperor's monster transformation which creates fog. Giving fog creation 8-B destruction is extremely arbitrary)
• Descendant 2-B key: Absorbed Shadowmind and stalemated Shadow.
• Shadow Mind 2-B: Stalmated Shadow after he defeated Tenebris.
• Gizmo High 8-C key: Compared to High 8-B Descendant. (Questionable by association)
• Gizmo at least 5-B key: Put a good fight against 2-B Descendant (Questionable, massive tier gap)
• Iolanda at least 5-B: Fought 2-B Descendant (Questionable, massive tier gap)
• Xiang Tzu High 8-C key: Comparable to Gizmo. (Questionable by association)
• Xiang Tzu at least 6-C: Fought Descendant after he fought the Chief. (Questionable by association)
• Vortex 5-B: Claims that he will engulf and drown the planet with dark water (Questionable, environmental destruction of surface similar to Volcano)
• Titan 5-B: Was said to be able to reduce the world to ashes, to devastate homeworlds, and has threatened that he will make Shadow witness the birth of his new world. (Questionable, reducing the world to ashes applies to surface, and he doesn't actually blow up planets and create new ones; he conquers planets by mind controlling its residents into becoming his slaves)
• Fungus 5-B: Comparable to Volcano and Megalith (Questionable by association)
• Megalith 5-B: Comparable to Volcano, and claims to be able to move continents and that his role is to cleanse the earth. (Questionable, environmental destruction of surface similar to Volcano)
• Volcano 5-B: (Questionable as stated by OP)
• Lynx 5-B: Put up a good fight against Shadow after he fought Volcano. (Questionable by association)
• Hermit 5-B: Put up a good fight against Shadow after he fought Volcano. (Questionable by association)
• Butcher 5-B: Put up a good fight against Shadow after he fought Volcano. (Questionable by association)
• Wasp 5-B: Put up a good fight against Shadow after he fought Volcano. (Questionable by association)
• Widow 5-B: Put up a good fight against Shadow after he fought Volcano. (Questionable by association)
• Shogun 5-B: Put up a good fight against Shadow after he fought Volcano. (Questionable by association)
• Ancient 5-B: Put up a good fight against Shadow after he fought Volcano, and was stated to be able to defeat Titan. (Questionable by association)
• Chief 6-C: Controls the entire landmass of Shadow Island and can absorb the Shadow energy present in it, and can damage the Descendant with terraforming attacks. (Questionable, his "Island Control" special attack doesn't look anywhere near Tier 6, absorbing the shadow energy in an island and using it all at once doesn't mean that this is enough energy to blow up an island)

 

[Dashio_Tessai]

Hm, okay so this what I can make out as tiers for each character that appears on this wiki (along with others who's pages are soon to be made) at the moment, ill start with the ones that appear in the chronological order of the story. Note that throught the events of the series, most feats of characters are stated through dialogue, and few of them are ever shown on screen through cutscenes or gameplay and stuff like that:

• Volcano: Unknown, at most High 6-A (Stated that he would've covered the planet with his fire (here), although the duration it would take for him to do it is unknown. Is comparable in power to Megalith and Vortex)

• Megalith: Unknown, at most High 6-A (Stated that he has moved continents in the past (here), although the amount of time it took him to do it is unknown. Is comparable in power to Volcano and Vortex)

• Fungus: Unknown, at most High 6-A (Doesn't state that he did or would do any High 6-A worthy feats, but he should still be comparable in power to Volcano, Megalith and Vortex)

• Vortex: Unknown, at most High 6-A (Stated that he would've engulfed and drowned the planet with his dark waters (here). Is comparable in power to Volcano and Megalith)

• Lynx: Low 7-C (All of the six Shadow Demons are equal to each other in power, and thus his attacks should scale to that of Hermit's, who destroyed a small town all on his own with his magics (here) ), possibly at most High 6-A (Has fought evenly against Shadow, who previously defeated Volcano, who would've covered the planet with his fire (here), although the amount of time it would've took him to do it is unknown)

• Hermit: Low 7-C (He single handedly managed to destroy an entire town with his magics (here) ), possibly at most High 6-A (Has fought evenly against Shadow, who previously defeated Volcano, who would've covered the planet with his fire (here), although the amount of time it would've took him to do it is unknown)

• Butcher, Wasp, Window and Shogun: Same descriptions as Lynx's

• Ancient: Unknown, likely at most High 6-A (Has fought evenly against Shadow, who previously defeated Volcano, who would've covered the planet with his fire (here), although the amount of time it would've took him to do it is unknown) - Unknown is for him being largely stronger than any of the other Shadow Demons (exept for Titan), but by an unknown amount

• Titan: Unknown, likely at most High 6-A (Has fought evenly against Shadow, who previously defeated Volcano, who would've covered the planet with his fire (here), although the amount of time it would've took him to do it is unknown), possibly 5-B when amped (He would've reduced the human world to ashes, although it is unknown if it meant destroying the surface of it or the entire planet) - Unknown is for him being largely stronger than any of the other Shadow Demons, but by an unknown amount

• Fatum, Arkhos, Hoaxen, Karcer, Drakaina (pages soon to be made): Unknown, at most High 6-A (None of them mention doing any High 6-A worthy feats, but they should still be as strong as thier brothers (Volcano, Megalith, Vortex) in power)

• Tenebris (page soon to be made): 5-B, likely 3-B, possibly Low 2-C (Stated that he forged the light and darkness of worlds (here) ) to 2-C (Titan, who was closely observing Tenebris' actions from the Shadow World, possibly stated that Tenebris created thousands of worlds in number, when he told Shadow about it (here).

I also wanna mention his speed feats here, just to make sure if they are correct or not, so i wont add them in the future if they ain't: Massively Hypersonic (Can keep up with Shadow in combat after the previous dodged Hermit's natural, cloud to earth lightning. Can also dodge Shadow's lightning attacks at point blank range), possibly Immesurable (Even though he is not shown at all to have this speed during his fight against Shadow (due to game balance and/or Plot-Induced Stupidity), he is still one of the physical embodiments of the Great Empy Void - the starting point of all creations (as stated by Word of God here), and as such he should predate time)

• Shadow: Start of the game to Titan fight key: Unknown, at most High 6-A (Defeated Volcano, who would've covered the planet with his fire (here), although the amount of time it would've took him to do it is unknown); Fatum to Drakaina fight key: Unknown, at most High 6-A (Defeated Volcano, who would've covered the planet with his fire (here), although the amount of time it would've took him to do it is unknown) [what makes this key different from the previous one is Shadow's removal of Immortalities, Non-Corporeal, and Resistances to Biological and Soul Manipulation, along with his other Resistances gained in return, its hard to explain but I'll find ways to separate keys, you'll see]; Pre and Post Tenebris fight key: 5-B, likely 3-B, possibly Low 2-C (Defeated Tenebris in combat, who stated that he forged the light and darkness of worlds (here) ) to 2-C (Titan, who was closely observing Tenebris' actions from the Shadow World, possibly stated that Tenebris created thousands of worlds in number, when he told Shadow about it (here) ); Pre Shadow Mind Fusion key: 5-B, likely 3-B, possibly Low 2-C to 2-C (He is still as strong as his younger self even after many years years, basically puts up a good fight against The Descendant, who was fused with Shadow Mind. Shadow Mind previously stalemated him in combat shortly after he defeated Tenebris); Post Shadow Mind Fusion key: 5-B, likely 3-B, possibly Low 2-C to 2-C (Same as his previous key, but could be a bit more powerful though). His speed stays Massively Hypersonic for all keys.

Because this post is getting too long already, I'll make another post containing the SF3 characters in the same fashion.

 

[Dienomite22]

The scan provided for Hermit's Low 7-C tier isn't concrete enough to imply it was done in one go or with his magic.

Everything else seems fine, High 6-A statements look to be valid and consistent. Tenebris probably needs more discussion to pinpoint where exactly he should be rated because it's still a massive tier change.

 

[Dashio_Tessai]

Part 2 of my previous comment

This one's a bummer. You see when I joined this wiki back in the day, Gizmo, Chief, Iolanda and Xiang Tzu were the only SF3 characters that had pages, and all of these four were created by TacticalNuke, along with Elizhaa aswell I think. Back then, both Iolanda and Gizmo's pages contained powerscaling tiers that were related to fighting base Descendant and Shadow Mind Fused Descendant, and the Descendant page was not even a thing untill I created it further down the line. It took some time to do it. By the time the pages of Shadow Mind and The Descendant even got created by me, Shadow went through a CRT (made by me), which made him 2-C due to defeating Tenebris in combat (when Tactical and Eli made the Gizmo and Iolanda pages, Tenebris wasn't even revealed in the second game, so they didn't exactly know what tier Shadow Mind really was (2-C through stalemate). The only thing they had going for it in terms of AP was a 5-B rating, since Shadow Mind threatened the Descendant with destroying the world (planet) ).

Even to this day I dont know what Tactical truly meant with the High 8-C rating on base Descendant, so when I created his/her page, I tried to find a feat that matched the High 8-C scaling, and the only thing I found was the Emperor causing a big hole in the ground by exploding The Rig in his Shadow Beast form, and Descendant defeats him in that form later on. Also the Shadow Energy attacks that the Emperor uses do not illustrate their destructive capabilities, since, like I said in my first comment, the feats of the characters of this game are MOSTLY described or mentioned through dialogues, and very rarely seen in action through gameplay or cutscenes. Emperor destroying The Rig was a feat he did off-screen, and it gets revealed that he did this feat bit by bit by progressing through the plot of the game.

Same thing goes for Chief's tiering. I was never part of the creation of his page, so Tactical is the only person that can give reasoning on his scalings.

As such, if the Tenebris scalings that were mentioned in my first comment ever go through, then Shadow Mind gets his tiers ( 5-B, likely 3-B, possibly Low 2-C to 2-C), along with Shadow Mind fusion Descendant, with the latter's pre fusion tier leaving to be discussed (his early game non fusion is unknown, and his late game non fusion is 5-B, likely 3-B, possibly Low 2-C to 2-C due to him/her defeating Shadow (fused with Shadow Mind) even if he/she didn't have Shadow Mind inside of him/her.

 

[Dienomite22]

I will say, nothing shown so far justifies even the possibility of a 2-C rating. We should wait for the ones responsible for the tiering to explain and provide evidence.

 

[Dashio_Tessai]

Seeing as nobody else from the verse is responding, I wanna continue this discussion by giving the SF3 characters the Unknown tier. But for now, lets first discuss Tenebris and his tier (maybe his speed aswell, but later on after we are done with the tier rating).

5-B feels a little bit low, considering that he forged the light of worlds that would imply him creating stars instead (4-C or High 4-C) (like I'm not sure if the term "light" is to be interpreted as planets), so his base tier should be Star or Large Star level. "Likely 3-B" would come from him to actually be able of creating multiple galaxies, instead of just stars. Also yes, Tenebris does actually use the Portal to do his "universal" feats. The way I see it now is like this (he is no longer universal tier): the Portal "gives birth" to worlds (universes) -> these universes are absolutely empty, there is no light (stars), darkness or anything else in them -> Tenebris makes contact with these empy universes and starts forging (creating) their light (in the form of stars) and darkness -> might also imply that he creates glaxies inside each of the universes.

So Tenebris becomes 4-C (or High 4-C idk im pretty sure he made all sorts of stars ranging from dwarf to large sizes), likely 3-B (since he likely created multiple galaxies in each individual universe)

 

[Elizhaa]

Question though isn't Titan fight first before the Eternal or the Underworld expansion was open and didn't state anything?

I am fine with the revision regarding the Shadow Fight 3's keys and profile

 

[Dashio_Tessai]

Actually, when the first four Eternals (Volcano, Megalith, Fungus and Vortex) were introduced into the game after the Titan update, the main story got a slight change along with their release. Volcano greets Shadow very early in the story, after he defeats Lynx's fifth bodyguard, Dandy (here). Vortex is the last Eternal who mentions the Gates of Shadows, so he must have been defeated by Shadow before Shadow even went through the Gates and fought Titan. Fatum is the first Eternal Shadow faces after the destruction of the Gates. (Shadow still fights Volcano, Megalith, Fungus and Vortex after the destruction of the Gates when they are all tasked by Fatum with defending her fate manipulating artifacts (2017 Valentine update).

The dev I mentioned earlier also confirms Shadow fighting Volcano very early in the story (here).

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

Does the Underworld storyline take place in an alternative timeline or is it canon to the main story? It isn't referenced in Shadow Fight 3, it is optional and can be completed in Act 1 ignoring the main story, and it has two endings.

If it is not canon, then it can solve the tier gap in Shadow Fight 3 characters.

 

[TacticalNuke002]

The High 8-C comes from this btw. The Shadow Beast possessing the Emperor attacks and blows up a shadow rig from point blank range the aftermath of which is this stage. The stage itself is called "Destroyed Village".

There's definitely tier 2 feats in the verse. Not only was Shadow planning to destroy and remake the universe to one where may is still alive, the end of the Shadow boss fight has Moira doing that but just as a hard reset with nothing changed. And only Shadow Mind and true Bolo know that the reset has taken place. It seems to be via equipment though.

 

[Dashio_Tessai]

As far as I'm concerned the Underworld is canon in the main story of Shadow Fight. If we take event updates as canon aswell, then we got The Son of Heaven's dialogue which mentions both of Shadow's feats of going through the Gates and destroying the Eternals (here).

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

Kibo was also able to survive the Shadow Rig's explosion with severe injuries, so it should scale to the physical attack and durability of characters. Though we should attempt to scale the crater.

Though the The Son of Heaven is part of the Underworld's holiday events (which includes a quest to find Santa), there is still a problem of the Underworld story events (including important ones, like Shadow and his companions gaining reality-warping powers from the Portal, or them exterminating the Eternals) lacking reference in story mode.

 

[Dashio_Tessai]

I guess time will tell if the Eternals (and other special event characters) are truly canon in the main story of SF. When they get a trace of existence in the third game, they would likely turn this verse upside down again with the tiers of characters and whatnot.

This would mean the removal of one of Shadow's key, you know which one.

Due to this, I should either request the removal of the existing Eternals pages, or I could continue making their pages and categorise them as non-canon characters in the SF universe.

Any objections?

 

[Starter_Pack]

I believe the latter would be appropriate. They can remain there, they just can't be used for scaling until confirmation can be made on their canonicity.

 

[Elizhaa]

I believe the latter would be appropriate. They can remain there, they just can't be used for scaling until confirmation can be made on their canonicity.

I agree; I think the latter option works.

 

[Dashio_Tessai]

Okay so now that we are done with that, I say we start talking about the small characters first: the Shadow Demons.

Hermit should get Unknown, at most Low 7-C due to him being able to destroy a town on his own with his magics (stated by Sensei, confirmed by Buffalo that Hermit did it with magic), although the duration it took him to do it is unknown. --> All other Shadow Demons (with the exception of Titan) get the same tier due to them being equal in power to Hermit.

Titan should get Unknown, at least Low 7-C, likely higher, since he hasn't really shown any continental or planet busting feats in the past, but he is definetly Way stronger than any of the Shadow Demons that Shadow faced on his way to the Gates. --> Ancient and Shadow's first key also get this tier. Ancient for being considered one of the few who could defeat Titan, and Shadow for obvious reasons.

 

[Antvasima]

What are the conclusions here?

 

[Elizhaa]

I believe that we agreed that, besides Tenebris, the Eternals characters's won't be Higher than 5-B. The final tiers is still being discussed. Other topics are being discussed, also.

There is no conclusion yet.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thanks for the reply.

 

[Dashio_Tessai]

Kibo was also able to survive the Shadow Rig's explosion with severe injuries, so it should scale to the physical attack and durability of characters. Though we should attempt to scale the crater.

It's hard to guess how deep the crater really goes, since the image Nuke posted earlier is the only illustration the game has of it. The only info I was able to find of it is that when the crater was made, it was filled with huge amounts of Shadow Energy. Ling was planning on using this SE found in the crater (along with other unknown amounts from outside sources) to stretch this crater untill it reached the palace of the Dynasty. this is the distance between the crater and the palace as shown on the in game map.

If this doesn't do then I say we hit Gizmo and Xiang Tzu's High 8-C tiers with the "Unknown, possibly High 8-C" one.

 

[Dashio_Tessai]

I'm also not able to find feats about Shadow Mind doing destructive things on its own, so I guess it should scale to stalemating Shadow in combat in the past (Unknown, at least Low 7-C, likely higher) (Also makes Descendant's second key the same). <-- This would be the first key it gets called "Base Shadow Mind"

The second key should be Low 2-C tier, since Bolo states that Shadow Mind can create the world again (after it got reset) while it is inside the Accelerator Core, and that it also has absolute power while inside the Core (1, 2). This key should be called "In the Accelerator Core".

If I'm not mistaken, the newest installment in the franchise called "Shadow Fight Arena" that is planned for release later this year features events that take place in the world that was created by Shadow Mind (it's basically a tournament in which known characters (and also ones never seen before) that we have seen in the past games compete against each other in combat. Each of these characters fight for their own purposes in order to have an audience with Shadow Mind and have it shape the world to the winner's desires and dreams).

 

[Dashio_Tessai]

bump

 

[Dashio_Tessai]

bump