So in light of Voltron Season 8... (Spoilers)

[Foxthefox1000]

Is it safe to upgrade them to universal?

Honerva legit was destroying multiple realities pretty casually and they're each basically another Voltron universe, and yet Voltron mamaged to put up a good stand against her.

Allura and Honerva both reset the multiverse at the end as well, although it costs thwm their lives.

Though of course this should be agreed upon

 

[Xerkser500]

I'll agree with this, though if my understanding of this sites tiering system is correct, some of these feats for Voltron should actually be much higher even. For instance, Honerva should probably be Universal+ (or Low 2-C) early this season. IHeres some scans I took while watching the episodes.

When Honerva was gathering large amounts of Quintessence from around the Universe to Oriande, she let loose a massive explosion that was allowing the Paladins to see into other realities.

https://imgur.com/a/oKXK0bi


https://imgur.com/a/WoUkt0b

The explosion did that because it caused a rip in the fabric of time, which was causing the "essence" of other realities to leak out of it.

https://imgur.com/a/dDGFoIT


https://imgur.com/a/WySr0Zu

And this was happening because Honerva was ripping apart timelines, giving her the capability of causing irreparable damage to reality itself.

https://imgur.com/a/6BKQGLE


https://imgur.com/a/sjnN4AU

And just as a side effect of her releasing energy, Honerva was causing a White Hole to go extremely unstable and this White Hole seems to hold some alternate universe in itself to hold Oriande.

https://imgur.com/a/gWYyQGI


https://imgur.com/a/tqFTMl0


https://imgur.com/a/c1oPwsw


https://imgur.com/a/2YtSvZM


https://imgur.com/a/lSnyKx4

The phenomena of what happened to the White Hole was called "Time Spillage", the rip in the fabric of reality.

https://imgur.com/a/1c7yRTO


https://imgur.com/a/aRHzwm8

So could Honvera, from this alone, be Universal+?

 

[Foxthefox1000]

I was thinking that stuff would be really impressive. I mean, she flat-out absorbed enough Quintessence to destroy a galaxy, as they described in the show.

I'm not sure if she kept that power or not, although she suddenly became pretty OP. She can glare at someone and then have their conciousness enter their minds and it seemingly happens in an instant or time just goes by really slowly while they are under get control? Cayse they can't move their bodies either. It's more of a way to just trap them in the moment and have her get in their heads.

I dunno what she did to those Galra, but it looked like they just got evaporated or erased from reality from the looks of it. But magic disintegrating doesn't really sound good? I dunno.

Also could control Lotor's corpse and mecha with her mind or something?

Also could sense the Paladins inside her mind and could manipulate her own mind to try and get rid of their consciousness as well as could trap conciousnesses inside her own and corrupt them, which I guess are like souls?

 

[HeeHomeboyMokey]

Other stuff worth mentioning,

• apparently Altean magic created Oriande, but I don't know the size of Oriande necessarily

• Voltron nearly outpaces/survives (?) the collapse of a universe

• Each universe may have its own version of the infinite Void, stated to be infinite on a few occasions

Going by this site's standards I am pretty sure Voltron would be low multiversal though, since Honerva was going to destroy all universes except for one by going through with her plan by using the power of the wings on her mech. It was sort of said to be like a chain reaction but we also see her destroying timelines (which are analogous to realities in this case) with casual blasts so that checks out.

 

[Xerkser500]

@Foxthefox1000

I think she did because she used all of the energy from that Quintessence to bring back Lotor's dead corpse and his mecha from the Quintessence Field and she maintained dominion over him.

Yeah she did that to Allura IIRC, that's a good mind haxing feat. That, or its some kind of pocket void Honerva does when glancing at her opponents.

Pretty sure those Galra were flat out erased and given Honerva's abilities I wouldnt be surprised. Honerva can even create small fragments of her power to inject Alteans with that connects them to her and its stated to be a power from the Quintessence field that predates time itself.

Yes she can trap souls inside of her mind. She did that to the original paladins of voltron and corrupted their souls to fight Allura and the others when they invaded her mind.

 

[Xerkser500]

@TheNekrozOfMokey

I think Oriande is either universal in size or some pretty big pocket universe since the White Hole that connects Oriande with the outside universe shows this.

https://imgur.com/a/xXYT8Eg

And it was stated that Oriande was destroyed as a result of the White Hole closing in on itself.

And I remember that feat of the Atlas-fused Voltron survivng or outpacing the collapsing of universes. According to this site, moving in erased space-time or places where space-time doesnt exist, can grant a character infinite speed. Well according to this, the universes Honerva was destroying were being entirely erased out of existence and despite being seemingly trapped in an erased void, Atlas-fused Voltron manages to escape. Wouldnt that mean it has infinite speed?

 

[HeeHomeboyMokey]

Idk if its necessarily infinite speed by this site's standards really if the place was collapsing but there was still space and time and matter Not really sure how they got out anyway but I think moving in tandem with the collapsing universe would be a good speed feat

 

[Xerkser500]

There wasnt space or time in the instance of Atlas-Voltron escaping the void of the erased universes.

I can bring scans later, but if you recall the moment before Honerva reaches that alternate reality of Zakron and Lotor, Atlas-Voltron was seemingly trapped in another void before they could reach her and it was already a universe that was entirely erased from existence. But later, they manage to reach Honerva and continue fighting her all the way to that realm that Allura said was the origin of existence in the Voltron Multiverse.

 

[Antvasima]

You should ask the people listed in the Knowledgeable Members List and Voltron: Legendary Defender verse page to comment here.

 

[Xerkser500]

I can ask people by messaging them on their walls here?

Also, there may be some evidence for Honerva's mech being a casual baseline Multiversal (or 2-B as its called here).

 

[Yobo_Blue]

There's evidence for at least High 3-A

 

[Antvasima]

Darkanine should be able to help.

 

[Xerkser500]

There's evidence for at least High 3-A

What did you think about my first comment regarding Honerva ripping apart timelines?

Wouldnt that be above Low 2-C here?

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Yes.

 

[Xerkser500]

I also have some scans regarding Honerva's actual plan that might be worth looking into. Give me a second.

 

[Xerkser500]

So the real makeup of Honerva's plan was that she wanted to use Lotors Mech, which is made out of the same comet ore as Voltron, to pierce her way into other realities so she could find her version of a perfect reality. The problem that everyone else was facing as that the trans-reality comet ore has been traveling across realities for millions of years, making it a natural phenomena. But what Honerva was trying to do was force that process to happen, which would have catestrophic side effects to not only Team Voltron's reality, but any reality she travels through (this i'll get to later.)

All scans here - https://imgur.com/a/EQxnMTm

As to what kind of effects her plan would have, Slav makes a comment on it later on after her plan is revealed. He himself says that if the trejectory of their future doesnt change, their universe will face total anilhilation. A reality-ending event with repercussions through space-time itself. Everything that there is, was, and ever will be, would be destroyed in the blink of an eye.

Before Slav's word gets questioned, remember, Slav is one of the most intelligent characters in the entire Voltron series. This is the same guy who easily made a gravity-generator device that could cloak the Castle of Lions in invisibility or create a device that can bend space-time to create pocket dimensions for entire outposts. His vast knowledge even made the Galra, who'd been ruling the universe for 10,000 years, capture and torture him in an attempt to get his knowledge for himself. So I think his word on the matter of Honerva's plans should be taken completely seriously.

All scans for this here - https://imgur.com/a/qYLuGmK

Now we get to when she starts her plan. Using the wings from her Mech, Honerva is using her Mechs power to pierce the barrier between realities, making it her entry point, due to fusing with Lotor's Mech to make a new one. Just by making the pierce in realities, at the same time, Honerva is causing the collapse of the entire universe. Coran states it's just like the end of S6 when the Castle of Lions was sacrificed to stop the universe from collapsing after Voltron's fight with Lotor in the Quintessence Field, which i'll stop at for a moment to post scans for it- https://imgur.com/a/AyB2wpm

And by collapsing the universe, as in the very fabric of it. Time, space and reality were being disintegrated, stated multiple times as such. Before they can stop Honerva, a gigantic explosion is made that momentarily knocks both Voltron and the IGF-Atlas out as a result of Honerva successfully piercing realities.

All scans in order- https://imgur.com/a/LlCSlNP

In order to fight against the power of her newly fused mech, Voltron and the IGF-Atlas get empowered by the Quintessence of 8 Balmera, who're literally planets in size. To make a fusion of the 2. For the sake of the rest of my posting, im calling it Atlas-Voltron. Traveling through Honerva's pierce in realities, Atlas-Voltron notice the alternate universe they go to, that contains an alternate Altea, is almost completely erased. Its asked why this universe was crumbling away so fast and Pidge confirms that the wings from Honvera's mech created a cosmic tunnel with just a single blast of energy. And why? Because that blast released created a rift that leads directly to the reality Honerva was searching for. Which, as a result, destroys any reality that those wings bore through to get to the one Honerva wants. Down to a literal void of nothing via reality being erased.

All scans- https://imgur.com/a/mkXC6sK

And according to Honerva herself, her wings went through & destroyed countless worlds to get to the reality she wanted to get to -https://imgur.com/a/UtgbMV5

On here, countless seems to = baseline 2-B Multiversal

And for each reality Honerva destroyed, it was given the same treatment as the Paladin's reality, where everything was destroyed. Everything there is, was, and will be.

So would a 2-B Honerva be reasonable from this?

 

[HeeHomeboyMokey]

I feel like Lotor's tech apparently being the key to piercing realities makes it seem like the whole reality collapsing thing Lotor was going to do is not a non-scalable hax ability for the earlier versions of Voltron, if that makes any sense.

The Balmeras and a bunch of other battleships are preventing the collapse of their reality in the finale and Voltron pre-fusion was superior to them so I think that makes that consistent.

But as for FUSED Voltron, I think that makes sense. I think Slav's statements of alternate realities might give us a minimum quantifiable number rather than just going off of "countless" to say it is greater than 1000 but either way, "countless" should be essentially above baseline multiversal here I'd think.

 

[Xerkser500]

I feel like Lotor's tech apparently being the key to piercing realities makes it seem like the whole reality collapsing thing Lotor was going to do is not a non-scalable hax ability for the earlier versions of Voltron, if that makes any sense.

Wait so you do agree its scaleable?

 

[HeeHomeboyMokey]

I feel like Lotor's tech apparently being the key to piercing realities makes it seem like the whole reality collapsing thing Lotor was going to do is not a non-scalable hax ability for the earlier versions of Voltron, if that makes any sense.

Wait so you do agree its scaleable?

I am saying that I think that Voltron without Atlas may need to be upgraded as well now that we have new context basically, so yeah, if that is what you mean

 

[Xerkser500]

Oh okay then. Then yes I think normal Voltron should be upgraded.

The Atlas was able to somewhat compare to Honerva's mech in battle and Voltron should at least be comparable to the Atlas.

 

[Antvasima]

I haven't had the time to watch this season yet, but was this destabilisation of universes due to a chain reaction or raw power?

 

[HeeHomeboyMokey]

they use chain reaction as the exact words in the show to describe it, but I feel like that does not entirely matter because it was done as a result of one attack (although that's not the only reason, idk how to explain, but I have something better)

In the end, the power of Honerva's mech was reversed so that instead of destroying the multiverse, it recreated every reality, so i think it works out either way

 

[Antvasima]

Well, a separate "2-B via chain reaction" statistic may be warranted then. The question is what the regular statistics should be.

 

[Xerkser500]

Its not purely a chain reaction however.

Pidge clearly described it as her creating a cosmic tunnel in one blast that leads Honerva straight to the reality she was looking for from the Paladins reality. And any reality in-between that she blasted through would be destroyed from the forcible pierce in those realities.

That should count towards her AP.

 

[HeeHomeboyMokey]

Legitimate question, shouldn't the Lions also be revised? The Lions should be somewhat comparable to Voltron, as Voltron level threats are consistently portrayed as not too far out of their league, but they still lack the power that Voltron does. You VERY often see enemies that both the Lions and Voltron can fight and harm (for example, Lotor took damage from the Castle of Lions, Voltron, and the Lions, as you could see when monitors started flashing and there was clear beeping and such) Castle of Lions seems to be sort of Voltron tier, but not as good, and the Lions consistently defended the Castle while it was still around, without resorting to Voltron

 

[Xerkser500]

Most likely?

Other than obvious upgrades like this, that probably would be reasonable. Or we just downscale the Lions from Voltron and make them each 1/5 of it's total power since all 5 are what make up Voltron in the 1st place.

 

[HeeHomeboyMokey]

Shouldn't this affect basically everyone, also?

Zarkon scales, he is a Lion tier on his own His mech was on par with Voltron as well

I feel like this might be more contestable, but Lotor beat Zarkon (in a weakened body, though) in a physical fight Also iirc some things that can hurt the Lions have been destroyed by people in Season 7 physically/with weapons and its not the only time that has happened, meaning Paladin tiers may even slightly scale to their Lions and by a lesser extension, Voltron

EDIT: I always thought Voltron's powerscaling was very inconsistent because stuff like this is possible so I am not sure, but I'm at least jot comfortable with putting the Lions and Voltron tiers apart. I also feel like Altean magic beimg capable of restraining Voltron and severely harming the Paladins is also notable, but idk. Still kind of wacky that the scaling is this weird.

 

[Antvasima]

I don't think that we can backwards-scale the lions to 1/5th of Voltron. Fiction is recurrently very inconsistent, so they should preferably scale from their own feats instead.

 

[HeeHomeboyMokey]

To be honest, I was kind of unsure about how the Voltron page was handled prior to this (small star via scaling to an unrelated thing makes sense, but its contradicted numerous times because of all the times the Lions have been shown to be comparable and in this case the strongest weapon in the universe does not necessarily refer to attack potency as we know it) but with this in mind it makes more sense. The Lions have been shown to be comparable to some extent to Voltron throughout the entire series, so I always thought that went beyond ordinary inconsistency. With that being said, I'm not a huge fan of the whole "fiction does this and that" kind of stuff all the time because I think it makes less sense for the Lions to be where they are now with this in mind.

Plus, Altean magic did create Oriande, (thinking likely beyond MSS) Balmeras and other ships stopped the universe from collapsing by working together, (all of those who were stopping the universal collapse were < the Lions iirc) and then Lotor's mech being explained as doing the whole universe collapse thing because of the power of its own blade having the energy to create those rifts that would destroy the universe, at least iirc. (Those screenshots above should help, because I think it was this season where it was elaborated on, and prior to that, it seemed more like it was just the result of opening too many portals and not that the mech's blade had the energy to create the portals or something, but I feel like that might just be me piecing together from what I remember rather than actually going back and verifying)

 

[Xerkser500]

Sorry, forgot about this.

I think we are starting to get off topic with some stuff. From that knowledgeable members list it seems a user named Darkanine is the best when it comes to Voltron?

I'll message him and see what he thinks of this before going any further.

 

[HeeHomeboyMokey]

Well yeah, if we are going with one thing at a tims, multiverse level and some speed tier for a new Voltron key on the profile seems blatant enough

 

[Xerkser500]

So I messaged Darkanine and he says he's catching up w/ the show but is avoiding CRT's to avoid spoilers.

So as a suggestion, should we close this thread and wait for him to finish the series to give a full and complete evaulation?

 

[Antvasima]

Well, either that or just wait for him to finish and come here afterwards.

 

[Cropfist]

Fusion Voltron and Haggar's mech should definitely be 2-C, I don't think the same for anything else.

 

[Antvasima]

Can somebody check the Voltron: Legendary Defender page to find members to ask to comment here?

Somebody should preferably also remind Darkanine.