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Smite Revisions?

I... what?

Alright, yeah, @Bambu, that's all I wanted to understand- it was not obvious to me at all that the prior discussion had established anything of the sort- but being asked to be taken seriously is directed specifically towards those for whom the initial response was "because it's wrong lol", and don't think that further elaboration is necessary.

If we can have a discussion that moves away from that, the rest is fine. But... if wanting that is "childish?" "Unreasonable?"

...

At any rate, that I haven't been able to change my own mind on the matter isn't the same as claiming that anyone else has no right to think differently, and clearly I am outvoted by at least those here that have participated the most, recently (Hell, my original proposition really wasn't all that different from what we've established now, it would seem, at least sans the Jan. 2015 comic.) I just would be more comfortable moving on if I understood the principles upon which doing so operated; I believe in principles more so than simply popular vote.
 
As I said in our talk about this on Discord, I'll back off of the discussion and let you handle it if my moderation attempts aren't needed. You know what the childish bit was in reference to and now I know it wasn't directed at me. I don't know what the current propositions are because everyone has put in their own two cents and none of them perfectly align with another person's ideas.

Good luck fellas.
 
How about this as a compromise: All the gods directly shown to scale, are implied to scale, or would logically scale, such as Vulcan would likely scale to other Olympians like Athena, Ares, etc., BUT those who have no direct comparison, or have no implified scale or logical scale, could be listed with a different tier or labled unknown with a side label of them being LIKELY low 2C due to the number of gods and nongods that do scale. That way, the gods that are shown to scale can be labled properly and those that haven't can be given both options for those who view it one way and those that view it the other? I personally feel all the gods do scale to an extent, but for those who don't feel that way, I feel this is a decent compromise. We'd just need to read through the story, the god bios, voice clipa referencing lore, and look at what's a direct scale, inplied scale, or should scale via logic, again, such as Vulcan.

So basically...Sol could have an initial rating at star level, with a blurb about her LIKELY being low 2C. Also for those who think Chronos is only low 2C for being time itself, his lore says he made the universe. Just thought I'd throw that out there. Tangent about Chronos aside, does this sound like a fair trade off? And when someone like Sol, who'd have a dual rating, shows any feats that directly thrust them into the scaling chain, we can adjust their profiles as needed. Hopefully this way I can satisfy both camps to a degree.
 
Perp...I read Odyssey 2017....and I have some GLARING issues with it in context with the canon of the main story....

Things that make sense:

1. Anubis DID battle Camazotz, according to Chaac. He battled him here to.

2. Hades, at this time, would indeed be on the throne of Olympus. So that checks out.

Things that don't:

1. The timing with Ao Kuang and Neith is waaaaaaaay off. In pantheon war, Neith joins the group, and then later, Hel kills Ao Kuang, JUST after he returned from murdering Zeus. Yet, in the Odyssey, Ao Kuang is influenced by The Morrigan into attacking the Chinese coast....and then Susano meats with neith. Ao kuang would have had to, murder Zeus, get taken over by The Morrigan, get set free, return home, and get murdered by Hel, who herself just got one upped by Loki. BUT she gets one upped by Loki, AFTER Neith joins Athena, but Susano meats Neith AFTER he helps free Ao Kuang....you see how that timing makes NO sense? Ao kuang helps kill Zeus > Athena arrives in Egypt and Neith joins her to find Loki > Loki wrecks Hel > Ao Kuang gets taken over at SOME point > is freed > Susano goes to meet Neith...who'd be LONG GONE at this point as he had met Agni in between freeing Ao Kuang and this point...and Hel murders Ao Kuang regardless.

2. SPEAKING of Hel....according to the Odyssey? She was imprisoned for suspicion of causing the black swarm that was cursing people. Guess what. In pantheon war? Not imprisoned. In fact she gets out scot free, frees her brother, and then sometime attacks Asgard with swarms of giants and shades. If she was SOMEHOW imprisoned, what happened to Fenrir? How did she escape? Why is none of this EVER mentioned ever again?

3. Going back to Hades...the dude JUST murdered his brother...is trying to merge life and death together to make life better for everyone, and later he and his wife are trying to bring down the establishment of the gods. WHY bother helping Susano? What benefit is there for Hades? Did he simply do it out of the goodness of his heart? Why is this mot referenced at all in the fall of war?

4. This whole thing with the Morrigan manipulating Xing Tian, Ao Kuang, Thor, Susano (temporarily), and trying to do so to Agni, and so on....WHY IS IT NEVER BROUGHT UP AGAIN? Literally if this story line were legit, WHY is there no obvious after effects? Is she effecting Ares? No point, cause he was already DEAD SET on hunting Anubis at any cost. Every other major conflict has had some fallout or call back in later arcs, EXCEPT this. If The Morrigan REALLY caused all this trouble, a bigger deal should have been made about it.

5. Why has Thor never brought up being taken over or having met Susano? Tyr was here to, and he never brought it up later either. Thor caused a LOT of damage to his own home and NOTHING of this has been mentioned since?

6. Where is Susano now? The event ends on a cliff hanger, that NO other story arcs follow up on, where The Morrigan, standing before Susano, Tyr, and Thor, claims war is upon everyone. Which, yeah, it is...but again...where is she now? Whee is Susano? Why is neither mentioned again?

Besides Camazotz vs Anubis and Hades on the throne, none of this story arc lines up at all that I can rationally explain. Unless you can explain to me what is going on here, I honestly can't take this supposed story arc seriously.
 
And this got even more complicated....Seriously, at this point, i don't think we will be able to put an end to this without ignoring certain facts it that continues. Though some points are not necessarily important to make profiles i think. Like Hel being imprisoned or not. Unless something about a potential feat is brought up, i don't think it's important for the tiers.
 
Oh, i wasn't trying to make things more complicated. Just felt this thing was way too inconsistent to be an actual part of the story and wanted to let perp know. Did you not read the other post I had before this? The compromise I posted?
 
I didn't say YOU were trying to make things more complicated, i was saying this game's story was more complicated than we tought. And yes i red it and i think it could be a good compromise between the two opinions we currently focus on.
 
Honestly if the timing between the Ao Kuang Neith thing were flipped, anf a couple other issues fixeed, one could likely slide this into the story. I mean it directly shows Arachne and Scylla as confident and capable of attacking gods. Just unfortunately....they attacked the god infamous for slaying Yamato No Orochi. .... why hasn't smite added HIM in yet? I mean death clearly hasn't stopped others like Ymir or Bakasura.

And I'm glad someone thinks it's a good compromise. Hopefully others find it acceptable.
 
Basakura was apparently sparred in the game while in the modern mythos, he was indeed killed and the game's justification for Ymir is that he cannot be killed (even less than gods) due to being a Primordial Being.

"why hasn't smite added HIM in yet?" Personally, i would really like to see Khaos and Ouranos in the game but that's another story.

Don't know if other people will accept it though. The good thing is that it combines the best from the two ideas. We'll have to wait to see what happens.
 
Actually it's implied Bakasura just...comes back. Cause reasons. And yeha Ymir is primordial, though he clearly isn't as big as he used to be.

And omg yes, Chaos needs to he in eventually. Would also like to see Maui.

And we can only hope. It was the best idea I had.
 
I've seen some concepts for Chaos, basically it would be Void-user God. And it would probably be THE most powerful god in the entire game.


What i would also like would be to change Odin's abilities. I mean, aside from Weapon Creation and Animal Manipulation, he only has basica attacks. He could have Necromancy or Mogic or abilities like Energy Projection. In-game i mean, i know he should have more story wise.
 
Yeah. Likely more so than even Jormungandr, Merlin, Olorun, Chronos, etc.

ACTUALLY about that....Hi-Rez has stated Odin AND Bastet are likely getting reworks sometime late this season or next season. Odin will likely be getting more thematic stuff like rune magic.
 
Wich would be logical because...i mean...its the very origin of absolutely everything so...

Good news then. I would like him to have more versatile and various bailities than simply blades.
 
To be fair....that immortality the gods have is kind of broken. Even if he didn't have much versatility....it takes either very specific skills or the removal of their worshiper base. Which mid battle can be easier said than done.
 
Think this is the hole point of being broken actually lol.

So anything to say about the proposition above guys ?
 
ArkhamDC06 said:
Think this is the hole point of being broken actually lol.

So anything to say about the proposition above guys ?
Click to expand...
Talked to Bambu about it on discord. He didn't think it was really much of a compromise that fixed an issue.
 
Ok......so...we try to wait for other people to watch about this ?

Personally, as i said in this thread, i'm more about the 7-A, High 4-C, Low 2-C idea BUt i can accept other propositions as long as it has some coherence with the game and your idea is a rather good compromise. I'm for waiting some time to see if anyone else (like Sigurd or others) could still help, don't want to say "Ok let's do this" without more opinions, especially when i could make a bad decision.
 
Nothing in five hours? We need some more opinions besides just ours ffs! XD

Anyways, while we wait, we can try and figure some characters out. Starting with Achilles. I'd put him in the "logical/implied" of scaling. His armor, which now covers his heel, and shield were god forged, by Vulcan who made the weapons, armors, thrones, and chariots of pretty much most the greek pantheon. His spear, when looking it up, was forged by Chiron. Chiron, like Zeus, is a son of Kronos, albiet he's a bastard son. Zeus...sort of shares dad's habit of not keeping it in his pants. Not only that, Chiron was the dude who trained him, and also the guy who trained Hercules, another infamously powerful demigod. And then there is that infamous nlf invincibility....yeah no. Yeah it's stated "the gods fear the man that can't be harmed" but I'd just say his durability is just simply well beyond most characters' attack potency in this verse. Enough to seem "invincible" but not truly so. ALTERNATIVELY We could go the route that he IS invulnerable, unless your attacks hit a dimensional tier higher. Which do you feel is more likely? I'd rather not wank that invulnerable body of his. And now that I say that that sounds pretty sexual....
 
Ehhh I don't even know anymore. Only thing that really bothered me was making everyone low 2-C or certain people such as Zeus, Odin, and Ra.

Ra was eaily beaten by Ares in the comicbook before he even got his godslayer armor (tier 5 skin) so are we making Ares Low 2-C as well? i'm pretty Athena is superior to base Ares as well.

Zeus was defeated by Loki and friends. Loki took his power ( thunderbolt) which I assume would be low 2-C as well. Athena tanked a blast from it while it was wielded by Loki and even blocked it on several occassion and Thor with Mjolnir matched it. Ao Kuang also hurt Zeus and blocked his thunderbolt.
 
Athena seems about as strong

Also wasn't Loki killing him done with Ao Kuang's cudgel? If so it seems likely he can scale

Thor no clue (maybe an outlier? I dunno l)
 
Athena and Ares are more or less equals i think, at least in terms of raw power. It's just that Ares is more about sheer violence and strength while Athena is strategist.

For Ra and Ares, my idea is that, as a God of War (and specifically focused on war as in "killing everything and destroying everything), Ares was empowered by the previous fight, especially his fight with Ainhur, wich is also a God of War, and took Ra by surprise. As said above i think, gods like Ares, Bellona or Discordia thrives in war and Set is stated is stated to be come more powerful as the gods fight each others as he thrives in chaos.

For Loki...honestly i don't know. Of course, naturally he is weaker than Zeus and a 1v1 would have ended with him being fried to death. Now of course (i think Bambu mentionned it), all of this is about the story, characters will be more or less equals so there will be a challenge. I don't think we can count the assassination technique or Loki as a mean to say "He makes more damages from behind" because nothing really changes story-wise.

But, considering Loki killing Zeus with his daggers (and not his powers), Thor's hammer matching the Lightning Bolt and other stuff, purhaps we can say that divine weapons have the ability to bypass divine durability and are more or less equal to each other, wich would explain how Loki was able to kill Zeus with his own (again, not his powers). But we can also consider it's an outlier.
 
Idea (that's it, an idea). Let's just say we accept the 7-A, High 4-C, Low 2-C thing right ?

- Pantheon leaders (Zeus, Odin, Ra, Amaterasu, Kukulkan, Olorun, etc) and Chronos are Low 2-C as intended.

- Regular Gods. Hou Yi has a High 4-C feat that more or less corresponds to the other gods. But as we saw it in the canon comics, a group of regular gods (Hel, Loki, He Bo) fought against Zeus and won (through sneak attack from Loki but they were still able to fight him in the first place) and a regular (albeit powerful) god, Ares, defeated Ra. A good compromise for this could be "At least High 4-C, likely higher" for regular gods. The High 4-C feat is still here and treated as a casual feat from a normal god so the others should be able to do it to but this would allow the idea they can still fight the leaders via the "likely higher" part. Or we put them at "At least High 4-C, possibly Low 2-C". In that way, that would possibly justify how regular gods can fight Top Gods while still saying they're normally weaker.

- Mortals and monsters. We put them to tier 7 as proposed by Bambu and more precisely "At least 7-A, likely much higher" and consider, putting gameplay aside, that they are indeed weaker than regular gods. We can however add something for some of them, like Arthur being "At least 7-A, likely much higher, higher with Excalibur" wich is based on Excalibur's history, and a justification for Merlin.Or we can simply put them at the same tier than the regular gods if that's simple.

- We make particular keys or give specific informations for some of them if needed. Like Fenrir being empowered by the Ragnarok. We also precise that gods like Ares or Bellona are empowered by violence and war.

- We consider the weapons of the gods to be roughly equal in might, wich can be used to justify why Loki was able to inflict a deadly wound to Zeus and how Thor and Athena were able to keep up with Loki even if he had the lightning bolt. We thus consider that : Zeus's lightning bolt = Loki's daggers = Thor's hammer = Athena's spear, etc.


Again, it's just an idea trying to get the best compromise from all we know.
 
That....wasn't the compromise I had made. That compromise was SPECIFICALLY for characters who have yet to be in the story bound chain of scaling, Sol for example, who have no implied scaling or logical scaling, Such as Vulcan who should LOGICALLY scale with his brothers and sisters.

As Sol, by this example, falls outside of that, MY idea was to give her star level but with a blurb about her LIKELY being low 2C given the sheer number of gods that scale. And when Sol DOES make her entrance into the story, we can adjust her appropriately and same can be applied across the board.

And YES, Ares is FUELLED By war. And Ra had been more focused on trying to talk him down, but only further pissed him off and got his ass kicked for it. And no, not all the gods are 100% equal. BUT have proven CONSISTENTLY to be in comparable tier to one another. Again, think of DBS, specifically the TOP. So MANY universe busters, but some CLEARLY outclassed others, despite being in the exact same tier of power. You can be in a same-ish tier and still have a power gap. And, as shown, there are ways AROUND that gap, such as strength in numbers, hax, empowerment from war/chaos, etc. And NO, definitely not an outlier from Thor. Athena later on got bodied by a SINGLE front giant. Thor? Was taking on dozens of them, before ever needing the help of Argus and Hera. Granted, it was an unfamiliar opponent for Athena, and Thor fights them on the regular.
 
I know this isn't the compromise you made, i just tried an idea to see what others could think about it and it was specifically based on the hypothesis of chosin Bambu's system (wich is in itself that, an idea). Never said we SHOULD adopt his idea. At this point, the only idea that is really bad is making everyone Low 2-C, any other mentionned here (including yours and, that might sound arrogant but again this is only an idea, not something i say we should do or is better than anything else, mine).

I just had this in mind at the moment and posted it to see what people like Sigurd, you and Hellbeast would think about it. I'm just waiting to see if others are still interested and what they think about this. Since everyone has an idea about this, i might as well propose something (wich, AGAIN, is only an idea) and i hope this will be solved soon so we can start make new profiles.
 
I don't really see how low 2-C is bad when there is enough consistency for it. Granted, not EVERYONE is in the scaling chain YET. I just think its more consistent than 7, 4, 2. My proposal was to counter balance the fact not everyone can be scaled to low 2-C yet, even if it makes sense for all those who are gods.
 
I can't say i'm not curious about what was written in the removed comment.... Anyway, i'm for waiting to see if anyone else ahs something to say about it. Again, i want this to be solved but i prefer this to be done with more people than simply two guys (or one guy and one girl) who are fans of the verse. Especially if we have help from admins or (at least in y case) most experienced members of this wiki.
 
For the record, I also trust Mr. Bambu's sense of judgement.
 
You will likely need a new content revision thread though. This one has turned too long.
 
I trust Bambu too hey. And yeah, this one is too long. So we make another thread ? And, i know you said you're not very knowledgable with this verse but do you have an opinion about witch idea can be good ?
 
Well, I only recall that I thought that Bambu's idea of accepting that there are inconsistencies, but that the characters should not all scale to each other, made sense.

You can ask him to restart the thread via his message wall if you wish.
 
Ok, thanks, i'm gonna do it, mainly because even with Gaara's idea, i think we should still have more people to decide what to do.
 
Jesus, this thread was brutal.

What are the main suggestions on the table?
 
Bambu's idea is to put mortals and monsters to 7-A (sort of) scaling to Cabrakan, the regular gods to High 4-C due to Hou Yi's feat of destroying nine suns and pantheone leaders to Low 2-C with the justification that all of them scale to Olorun. Basically, the characters wouldn't scale to each other while some inconsistencies would be ignored.

Gaara has his own idea above wich is putting every pantheon leader to Low 2-C and do the same thing for everyone that is stated or directly shown to be able to fight them and puttint the others to unknown.

I also made some kind of proposal but it's based on Bambu's system.
 
No mention of the comprimise I also made? While I personally thing low 2-C is consistent, I get not everyone sees that and admittedly not EVERY character falls into the scaling yet.

Many have been directly shown to scale, are implied to scale, such as several references to Hercules' battle with Cerberus and his battle with Hades, or should scale logically, like Vulcan should scale to his brothers and sisters like Athena, Ares, and Mercury, and thus these gods should more than likely be low 2-C.

Others like Sol? No direct combat, nothing imying to be on the level of another, and nothing to scale her logically like Vulcan above. Thus we could lable her as star level but LIKELY low 2-C given the number of gods that DO scale. And when she does make some kind of direct showing or any implication is made about her, we can adjust her to scale with the rest.
 
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