Small Omni man AP upgrade

[Coolboy6]

He should be 7-A given how badly he stomped Invincible even at full power.

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

He should be 7-A given how badly he stomped Invincible even at full power.

Isn't he at least 7-A already?

 

[Coolboy6]

Isn't he at least 7-A already?

Yes but he’s not rated as 7-A+

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

Yes but he’s not rated as 7-A+

Ah you're trying for 7-A+. Yeah the OP just says 7-A.

7-A+ is about 1.585x the calc we have currently for 7-A Invincible which is 347 megatons compared to 7-A+ which is at least 550 megatons. IDK if we could upscale him considering usually things like that need a 1.2x difference at most iirc

 

[LaserPrecision]

Yes but he’s not rated as 7-A+

The + rating is only for characters who are at or above the median of Baseline and End of a Tier. I'm not sure scaling on its own can fill the requirement unless the tier they're already at is VERY close to the median as is.

 

[Coolboy6]

The + rating is only for characters who are at or above the median of Baseline and End of a Tier.

If those the standards, that should change tbh given how strong you need to be to stomp another character.

 

[LaserPrecision]

The power needed to stomp characters in a verse is arbitrary, there's no consistent difference in power needed to one-shot in fiction. Unless of course the verse specifies the difference.

 

[Urshani]

The power needed to stomp characters in a verse is arbitrary, there's no consistent difference in power needed to one-shot in fiction. Unless of course the verse specifies the difference.

is it time to change the standards

 

[LaserPrecision]

is it time to change the standards

And how would you suggest that? I don't see too much of an issue with it. The 7.5x rule is a rule specifically for vsb for the sake of an ap advantage actually meaning something. But one-shotting in other verses is vague, and thus giving characters in the verse 7.5x every time a character one-shots someone is an absurd proposition. I can understand contentions with it, but it has merit to it.

 

[Coolboy6]

And how would you suggest that? I don't see too much of an issue with it. The 7.5x rule is a rule specifically for vsb for the sake of an ap advantage actually meaning something. But one-shotting in other verses is vague, and thus giving characters in the verse 7.5x every time a character one-shots someone is an absurd proposition. I can understand contentions with it, but it has merit to it.

Bruh have you not seen how badly Omni Man stomped Invincible? Heck if you’re 2x stronger than invincible, you’d end up on the plus end of 7-A

 

[Urshani]

invincible tends to be semi, semi realistic anyway

And how would you suggest that? I don't see too much of an issue with it. The 7.5x rule is a rule specifically for vsb for the sake of an ap advantage actually meaning something. But one-shotting in other verses is vague, and thus giving characters in the verse 7.5x every time a character one-shots someone is an absurd proposition. I can understand contentions with it, but it has merit to it.

i don't care if it's absurd, it's the way it should be

 

[LaserPrecision]

Bruh have you not seen how badly Omni Man stomped Invincible? Heck if you’re 2x stronger than invincible, you’d end up on the plus end of 7-A

But the difference in power required to stomp in that verse is undefined and vague. You can't look in a verse and go "Oh yea, he's 32x stronger, just look how he one shot him effortlessly!". The only time an difference in power should be considered is when a numerical value is assigned in verse. Such as a statement like "His power dwarfs mine by tenfold! No... Dozens of times!".

 

[Hellbeast]

Don’t you need a calc for a + not upscaling?

 

[LaserPrecision]

i don't care if it's absurd, it's the way it should be

If you wish, we can continue this on my message wall on why it's the way it 'should be'. I don't see any reason as to why that should be the case. Especially because it leads to conflated tiers.

 

[Coolboy6]

But the difference in power required to stomp in that verse is undefined and vague. You can't look in a verse and go "Oh yea, he's 32x stronger, just look how he one shot him effortlessly!". The only time an difference in power should be considered is when a numerical value is assigned in verse. Such as a statement like "His power dwarfs mine by tenfold! No... Dozens of times!".

Shouldn’t it be clear that Omni man is more than 2x stronger than Invincible? It is very clear. You somehow don’t see it for some reason I don’t understand

 

[LaserPrecision]

Don’t you need a calc for a + not upscaling?

Typically, yes. However, I've heard that a character can jump a tier if a character has been calculated to be near the next tier, and a character dwarfs them. Which is rare, but can happen. So I assume a + can be added in the same scenario.

 

[LordTracer]

Shouldn’t it be clear that Omni man is more than 2x stronger than Invincible? It is very clear. You somehow don’t see it for some reason I don’t understand

You can’t arbitrarily say that he’s 2x stronger just because he stomped him.

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

Don’t you need a calc for a + not upscaling?

I've seen upscaling to + via a calc. Though if that's the case a couple verses are gonna need revisions

 

[Urshani]

If you wish, we can continue this on my message wall on why it's the way it 'should be'. I don't see any reason as to why that should be the case. Especially because it leads to conflated tiers.

ok

 

[LaserPrecision]

Shouldn’t it be clear that Omni man is more than 2x stronger than Invincible? It is very clear. You somehow don’t see it for some reason I don’t understand

No, it's not clear. It comes down to subjectivity. It comes down to the creator and how they portray the differences. In Dragon Ball, even being a percentage stronger (not even twice as strong) can in some cases be enough to stomp. There's no consistent difference in power required to stomp. It varies throughout fiction.

 

[LordTracer]

Don’t you need a calc for a + not upscaling?

You can upscale to a + as long as you’re upscaling from a calc that is very close to a + rating.

 

[Coolboy6]

You can’t arbitrarily say that he’s 2x stronger just because he stomped him.

I didnt ******* say that omg you’re putting words in my mouth. I said that if you’re 2x stronger than Invincible’s AP, you’d be on the plus end. Omni man is obviously stronger than a 2x difference so he’s probs around 4 or 5x stronger than Invincible.

 

[LordTracer]

I didnt ******* say that omg you’re putting words in my mouth. I said that if you’re 2x stronger than Invincible’s AP, you’d be on the plus end. Omni man is obviously stronger than a 2x difference so he’s probs around 4 or 5x stronger than Invincible.

First of all, calm down. Second of all, can you provide any evidence that explicitly says Nolan is 2x stronger than Mark, let alone 5x? You can’t just assume numbers like that without explicit statements.

 

[LaserPrecision]

I didnt ******* say that omg you’re putting words in my mouth. I said that if you’re 2x stronger than Invincible’s AP, you’d be on the plus end. Omni man is obviously stronger than a 2x difference so he’s probs around 4 or 5x stronger than Invincible.

I don't say this with ill-intent. But I think you should respond with kinder words. I don't personally think this behaviour is bad yet, but looking at your message wall, you could end up with a punishment if you act up the way I had seen before. I think you misinterpreted what LordTracer is saying.

They're saying, that you believe that Omni-Man should magically overcome the gap between his current tier and the median of the tier, simply by stomping someone. You're projecting that you think is how many times stronger he got based on your personal opinion (Which is the gap required to jump a tier or a median by the difference in power portrayed in a fictional work).

 

[FinePoint]

I didnt ******* say that omg you’re putting words in my mouth. I said that if you’re 2x stronger than Invincible’s AP, you’d be on the plus end. Omni man is obviously stronger than a 2x difference so he’s probs around 4 or 5x stronger than Invincible.

"You can't arbitrarily assume they're 2x more powerful."
"I didn't, I'm arbitrarily assuming they're 4-5x more powerful."

???

 

[Coolboy6]

???

How is this dumb at all? You’re pretty much saying it without actually saying it at all. It’s basic logic. Honestly, Omni man and those who would hypothetically scale to him should get a multiplier of some kind.

 

[LaserPrecision]

They're not saying it's dumb. They're showing that you contradicted yourself. You said you weren't arbitrarily assuming he's 2x stronger, and then IMMEDIATELY arbitrarily assumed he's 4 to 5 times stronger instead.

 

[Coolboy6]

I don't say this with ill-intent. But I think you should respond with kinder words. I don't personally think this behaviour is bad yet, but looking at your message wall, you could end up with a punishment if you act up the way I had seen before. I think you misinterpreted what LordTracer is saying.

They're saying, that you believe that Omni-Man should magically overcome the gap between his current tier and the median of the tier, simply by stomping someone. You're projecting that you think is how many times stronger he got based on your personal opinion (Which is the gap required to jump a tier or a median by the difference in power portrayed in a fictional work).

I’m trying to be kinder, but all the sudden @FinePoint started indirectly mocking me.

 

[Coolboy6]

They're not saying it's dumb. They're showing that you contradicted yourself. You said you weren't arbitrarily assuming he's 2x stronger, and then IMMEDIATELY arbitrarily assumed he's 4 to 5 times stronger instead.

It’s cause no one has decided on a multiplier for Omni man and those who would theoretically scale to him.

 

[LaserPrecision]

I can see how it came off that way. I don't think that was their intent, I think they just wanted to point out that you contradicted yourself in a short fashion. I feel like people here are indirectly provoking eachother.

 

[LaserPrecision]

It’s cause no one has decided on a multiplier for Omni man and those who would theoretically scale to him.

But we don't need a multiplier. We can just assume he has an unquantifiable advantage over other characters with similar or equal ratings to him in debates or something if that's the concern. But arbitrarily assuming a value makes no sense in this context.

 

[FinePoint]

I’m trying to be kinder, but all the sudden @FinePoint started indirectly mocking me.

You should take your own advice and not put words into people's mouths. I was merely expressing confusion over the apparent contradiction, not mocking you. I'm sorry if that came off as hurtful to you, that was not my intention.

 

[Coolboy6]

But we don't need a multiplier. We can just assume he has an unquantifiable advantage over other characters with similar or equal ratings to him in debates or something if that's the concern. But arbitrarily assuming a value makes no sense in this context.

At this point, we should wait for season 2 to come out. Maybe Invincible will be on Omni Man’s level and more character profiles will be created by then. Or maybe a new feat would happen and a multiplier may or may not be considered. Wow how many times do you people have to use the word “arbitrarily”?

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

At this point, we should wait for season 2 to come out. Maybe Invincible will be on Omni Man’s level and more character profiles will be created by then. Or maybe a new feat would happen and a multiplier may or may not be considered.

I heard Kieran was planning some kind of revision of the TV series, mostly downgrades tho, so maybe we could just discuss Omni-Man's scaling then

 

[Antvasima]

I personally wouldn't mind, but I don't think that our rules allow it.