Small Lord X Downgrade (+ Sonic.EXE upgrade)

[y3p_owo]

https://fcoc-vs-battles.fandom.com/wiki/Lord_X

Lord X's reasoning for Infinite speed makes no sense to me. The reasoning for him having that speed is this Twitter link about how/why Lord X limits himself:

The issue is that, last time I checked, that's not how one gets Infinite speed, at least when it's by itself. I even checked if it falls under this wiki's requirements for Infinite speed and found nothing that would help with Lord X. So I suggest we downgrade him to Sonic.EXE's speed.



Now, my title also mentions Sonic.EXE getting an upgrade in speed, meaning that I'm not just planning on having Lord X be just Superhuman in speed after this. A while ago, I was told about this one research page about how much dark matter moves across our bodies, and this is what I've found:

This research tells us that dark matter can move at speeds around 400 km/s, or Mach 1,116, compared to us humans. That would give us Massively Hypersonic+ speeds for both Sonic.EXE and Lord X, due to them being made of dark matter. Even if you want to do with 350 km/s, that would be Mach 1,020, so it would still be Massively Hypersonic+ either way.


Though if this speed upgrade for them doesn't pass, I still would highly suggest that Lord X should be downgraded from Infinite speed.

 

[OculoOmnibus]

This research tells us that dark matter can move at speeds around 400 km/s, or Mach 1,116, compared to us humans. That would give us Massively Hypersonic+ speeds for both Sonic.EXE and Lord X, due to them being made of dark matter. Even if you want to do with 350 km/s, that would be Mach 1,020, so it would still be Massively Hypersonic+ either way.


Though if this speed upgrade for them doesn't pass, I still would highly suggest that Lord X should be downgraded from Infinite speed.

Agreed with the first part, but I don't know what the rules are about applying real world logic to fictional stories

 

[y3p_owo]

Bump

 

[TheShape03]

Lord X's reasoning for Infinite speed makes no sense to me. The reasoning for him having that speed is this Twitter link about how/why Lord X limits himself:

The issue is that, last time I checked, that's not how one gets Infinite speed, at least when it's by itself. I even checked if it falls under this wiki's requirements for Infinite speed and found nothing that would help with Lord X. So I suggest we downgrade him to Sonic.EXE's speed.

I'm sure it's said at least twice that Lord has infinite abilities/power, on one of those occasions the tweet specifies that these cannot be measured or compared, I'm sure that should apply to his abilities in general, especially since he says he limits these infinite abilities for fun and we've seen him limit his speed before, as well as his strength (He has slowly pursued his targets when he is able to catch up and blitz them effortlessly, and several times he has limited his strength in hitting them even though he can one-shot them if he wants to).

Now, my title also mentions Sonic.EXE getting an upgrade in speed, meaning that I'm not just planning on having Lord X be just Superhuman in speed after this. A while ago, I was told about this one research page about how much dark matter moves across our bodies, and this is what I've found:

This research tells us that dark matter can move at speeds around 400 km/s, or Mach 1,116, compared to us humans. That would give us Massively Hypersonic+ speeds for both Sonic.EXE and Lord X, due to them being made of dark matter. Even if you want to do with 350 km/s, that would be Mach 1,020, so it would still be Massively Hypersonic+ either way.

I'm neutral, I'm not an expert on dark matter, but I'm not sure if dark matter moves at the same speed regardless of the type or amount, or if it's dark matter moving rather than being pushed by something.

 

[y3p_owo]

I'm sure it's said at least twice that Lord has infinite abilities/power, on one of those occasions the tweet specifies that these cannot be measured or compared, I'm sure that should apply to his abilities in general, especially since he says he limits these infinite abilities for fun and we've seen him limit his speed before, as well as his strength (He has slowly pursued his targets when he is able to catch up and blitz them effortlessly, and several times he has limited his strength in hitting them even though he can one-shot them if he wants to).

So what I'm picking up, and please correct me if I'm wrong, is that since because Lord X has limitless abilities, you think it means he has limitless speed, correct? If so, then it's a lot like "limitless strength"/"infinite power", it's meaningless when on it's own without further context or scaling.

However, I'm fine with giving him a Varies or Unknown at his peak tier for his speed though.

 

[TheShape03]

is that since because Lord X has limitless abilities, you think it means he has limitless speed, correct?

Well, we consider speed as an ability, right?

Lord X's abilities are limitless- however, it has decided to limit itself in its games to make them more interesting.

JoeDoughBoi: Lord X has limitless abilities, he is op. Thing is he doesn't use most of those abilities He realizes it would make his games uneventful if he could immediately beat his victim There is no power level for X because it's not relevant or something that can be measured/compared.

It also doesn't make sense that he refers only to his power, because he talks about abilities in the plural ("those abilities"). And clearly he's not just talking about his power because after saying that about unlimited abilities, he mentions his power to say that it's also irrelevant, immeasurable and incomparable. He also says he limits those abilities for fun. So the ways in which this can be interpreted are as follows:

1) At the beginning he talks about his powers and abilities, and Lord X should have all the existing powers and abilities + infinite more abilities (Which I highly doubt, because it's already been shown that he lacks some abilities on his own, like dimensional travel, he can't do it without his game disk). The second part talks about his power and is a support for Lord X Low 2-C.

2) In both cases he talks about his power and is a support for Low 2-C (Which doesn't make sense because of what I mentioned above).

3) He talks about his physical abilities in general, and it is what makes the most sense from my point of view, we know that he does not talk about his powers and abilities because in the same section he talks about power as one of those abilities, and the fact that he says he limits those infinite abilities reminds me a lot of how he was shown to constantly limit both his power and speed. Although he could easily outran the characters or one-shot them, he chooses not to, choosing to hold back and chase them for a while before killing them. So this is a support for Low 2-C and all his abilities are infinite.

 

[y3p_owo]

However, this still brings up the issue with the reasoning for the speed tier just being a statement of "limitless speed" and nothing else. So unless someone else in Lord X's verse has Infinite speed, I can't agree with us giving him that tier with only that statement being the reasoning.

 

[TheShape03]

However, this still brings up the issue with the reasoning for the speed tier just being a statement of "limitless speed" and nothing else. So unless someone else in Lord X's verse has Infinite speed, I can't agree with us giving him that tier with only that statement being the reasoning.

Well, twice in fact, the statement is repeated (in a slightly more summarized form) in Lord X's biography on Cult of X wiki, which WoG repeatedly stated is canonical and that the information on that wiki comes from the characters' creators. Also, since when do we dismiss a statement just because it was said once or twice? Why should we discard a direct statement of that type? especially when in this case, the statement is never contradicted in the character's games or stories.

I'm pretty sure that "limitless" is a synonym for "infinite", to have a limitless speed is to have an infinite speed.

 

[y3p_owo]

Also, since when do we dismiss a statement just because it was said once or twice? Why should we discard a direct statement of that type? especially when in this case, the statement is never contradicted in the character's games or stories.

I NEVER said we should discard it. All I said is that I don't think it's enough for Infinite speed.

I'm pretty sure that "limitless" is a synonym for "infinite", to have a limitless speed is to have an infinite speed.

Like I said earlier, it's much like using "limitless power/infinite power" and nothing else. On it's own, it's not as amazing as one would think. Plus, if we did use this statement, and nothing else, why should we limit ourselves to just Infinite speed? He has no limits, so why not Immeasurable or Irrelevant? Ik we obviously shouldn't go that route if Infinite speed does stay, but, at least to me, that's kinda the same argument for Lord X's Infinite speed.

Also sorry if this part comes of as me being immature or something similar like that, that's not my goal. I'm just trying to stating what this argument feels like to me.

Well, twice in fact, the statement is repeated (in a slightly more summarized form) in Lord X's biography on Cult of X wiki, which WoG repeatedly stated is canonical and that the information on that wiki comes from the characters' creators.

So remember when you said that Joe talking about his Powers and Abilities wouldn't make sense? Lord X's biography shoots a hole in that argument. On that site, the ability sections goes over stuff like being able to teleport, create portals, transform, all that good stuff. In other words, nothing really physical wise (Not even for Fatal Error, who's canonically stated to eat universes). Hell, it doesn't even mention the power level part on Lord X's. That means that yes, Joe WAS talking about his Powers and Abilities.

And as for why he doesn't just escape his world and enter ours with no issues, as you mentioned earlier, Joe never specified how those limitless abilities worked, so him only being able to use the disks to enter our world would still make sense with the limitless abilities statement.

 

[TheShape03]

Plus, if we did use this statement, and nothing else, why should we limit ourselves to just Infinite speed? He has no limits, so why not Immeasurable or Irrelevant? Ik we obviously shouldn't go that route if Infinite speed does stay, but, at least to me, that's kinda the same argument for Lord X's Infinite speed.

That's because there are different types of "infinities," keeping the closest one in mind is the best bet. This is why beings with "infinite power" (as long as it's not an inconsistent or hyperbolic claim made by an arrogant villain) qualify for High 3-A, instead of Tier 0 (or well, if it is a 4-dimensional being with infinite power it would qualify for 2-A, it depends on the character and the context).

So remember when you said that Joe talking about his Powers and Abilities wouldn't make sense? Lord X's biography shoots a hole in that argument. On that site, the ability sections goes over stuff like being able to teleport, create portals, transform, all that good stuff. In other words, nothing really physical wise (Not even for Fatal Error, who's canonically stated to eat universes). Hell, it doesn't even mention the power level part on Lord X's. That means that yes, Joe WAS talking about his Powers and Abilities.

Actually, many things are put in that section, be it the character's intelligence levels, their weapons, their strength, speed, and their powers and abilities. It is not a section where only the powers and abilities are put, it depends on what the author wants or does not want to explain to add there.

So I would just use the biography statement as a way to reinforce the first statement. There are still 4 ways to interpret it, which one makes the most sense to you?

1) The statements talk only about his power (note that he said "those abilities", and then later on he made a comment regarding Lord X's power, so he couldn't just be talking about his power) .

2) The statements talk about his powers and abilities, and his power (It would probably make sense, X needs the disk to travel to our world, but we could say that it is anyway something created by him so he still has Dimensional Travel, this would make Lord X have "and infinitely more abilities" in his powers and abilities section, would continue to be Low 2-C, and his speed and LS would be lowered).

3) The statements talk about his physical abilities (This assumes that when he talks about Lord X limiting those infinite abilities for fun he is talking about his physical abilities [power, speed, etc], does it make sense? well, in his stories and games he showed that he can outrun his victims and one-shot them if he wants, but he is usually seen chasing them limiting their speed and usually hits them without killing them, this could be good evidence to prove this point)

4) The statements talk about his abilities in general, all of them (so Lord X gets "and infinitely more abilities" in his powers and abilities section, and all of his physical abilities remain the same as they are now)

I'm fine with option 2 or 3, I think they make the most sense.

 

[TheShape03]

If the statement seems too vague to you, and there are other people who think the same, option 1 might be debatable, we could argue that it is somewhat vague but that it should at least be talking about his power.

 

[y3p_owo]

I'm fine with option 2 as well.

 

[TheShape03]

Okay, I asked MrMTurbo if he can weigh in here again and I'll probably look for some supporters of the verse to get more opinions on it since it will be a significant change to the character.

If we conclude on option 2, Lord X's speed should go down to "At least Superhuman" based on this, and his LS would go down to Class 10, since he can rip jaws off, which requires this amount of strength.

 

[LeoEpicGamer8910]

Agree with the speed downgrade, neutral on the dark matter thing.

 

[TheShape03]

Agree with the speed downgrade, neutral on the dark matter thing.

Which option do you think we should stick with regarding "limitless abilities" statements?

Lord X's abilities are limitless- however, it has decided to limit itself in its games to make them more interesting.

JoeDoughBoi: Lord X has limitless abilities, he is op. Thing is he doesn't use most of those abilities He realizes it would make his games uneventful if he could immediately beat his victim There is no power level for X because it's not relevant or something that can be measured/compared.

1) The statements talk only about his power (note that he said "those abilities", and then later on he made a comment regarding Lord X's power, so he couldn't just be talking about his power) .

2) The statements talk about his powers and abilities, and his power (It would probably make sense, X needs the disk to travel to our world, but we could say that it is anyway something created by him so he still has Dimensional Travel, this would make Lord X have "and infinitely more abilities" in his powers and abilities section, would continue to be Low 2-C, and his speed and LS would be lowered).

3) The statements talk about his physical abilities (This assumes that when he talks about Lord X limiting those infinite abilities for fun he is talking about his physical abilities [power, speed, etc], does it make sense? well, in his stories and games he showed that he can outrun his victims and one-shot them if he wants, but he is usually seen chasing them limiting their speed and usually hits them without killing them, this could be good evidence to prove this point)

4) The statements talk about his abilities in general, all of them (so Lord X gets "and infinitely more abilities" in his powers and abilities section, and all of his physical abilities remain the same as they are now)

 

[LeoEpicGamer8910]

Which option do you think we should stick with regarding "limitless abilities" statements?

The whole "limitless abilities" thing seems too vague to be used.

 

[TheShape03]

The whole "limitless abilities" thing seems too vague to be used.

I don't think there's anything vague about a statement that says "he has limitless abilities, and his power level is immeasurable, incomparable, and irrelevant" seems pretty clear to me.

3) The statements talk about his physical abilities (This assumes that when he talks about Lord X limiting those infinite abilities for fun he is talking about his physical abilities [power, speed, etc], does it make sense? well, in his stories and games he showed that he can outrun his victims and one-shot them if he wants, but he is usually seen chasing them limiting their speed and usually hits them without killing them, this could be good evidence to prove this point)

Another reason why I think he doesn't talk about his powers and abilities is that he referred to his power as one of these abilities and said that the level of power was infinite, that is, he is not talking about the number of abilities, is saying that his abilities have an infinite level. It's one of the reasons why I agreed to put his physical abilities as "Infinite". Now that I think about it, Lord X having infinite powers and abilities is actually crazy since there are many things he can't do and he still can't even find a way to not be banished from our world whenever he enters despite having "infinite powers and abilities", no matter how you look at it, the statements only make sense if they talk about his physical abilities, not his powers and abilities..

 

[y3p_owo]

Bump

 

[y3p_owo]

Bump

 

[y3p_owo]

Bump

 

[y3p_owo]

Bump

 

[y3p_owo]

Bump

 

[y3p_owo]

Bump

 

[y3p_owo]

Bump

 

[Withersoul_235]

Agree with the speed downgrade, neutral about the dark matter speed.

 

[TheShape03]

I mean, the "limitless abilities" statement doesn't make sense if we don't take it in the current way. I gave all the arguments that were necessary to prove it. They can't be unlimited powers and abilities because he's already proven not to have them, and because it refers to the level of those abilities, not the number of abilities. It cannot be hyperbole because the description is quite detailed and the same thing is declared again in Lord X's official biography. It can't just be his power level because it talks about abilities in the plural, and the fact that the description mentions that Lord X limits his unlimited level abilities so as not to kill his slaves in an instant is pretty consistent with all the times where he is shown to limit both his strength and speed in the games, either to not kill his slave in one hit or to not catch him instantly even though he can do so.

 

[BlueKZX_Animetion]

it really just comes to how one interprets what is his "Abilities " joe referring to the power level thing is pretty plane and simple to understand just what does joe mean by abilities is the question. I don't think it referring to his physicality as I think joe would of made that clear if that were the case. also I found this too bad the tweet gone but yeah he does seem to still have some form of limit on what he can do as joe put it " there still some rules "

z

​

 

[TheShape03]

it really just comes to how one interprets what is his "Abilities " joe referring to the power level thing is pretty plane and simple to understand just what does joe mean by abilities is the question. I don't think it referring to his physicality as I think joe would of made that clear if that were the case. also I found this too bad the tweet gone but yeah he does seem to still have some form of limit on what he can do as joe put it " there still some rules "

No, I'm sure that reasoning fails for multiple reasons.

1) Physical abilities are still abilities, if we have reason to believe they refer to these, then that is what it is.

2) I'm sure that many verses sum up almost all of a character's abilities in a simple word like "power" simply because they either don't feel like being specific or because they don't know how to be specific. Joe saying "abilities" doesn't mean he doesn't mean the physical, and Joe doesn't necessarily have to say "physical abilities" for that to be the case, if we have reason to believe it.

3) He said "abilities" in plural, his power level is a single ability. So it can't just refer to that.

Also, having limitations doesn't discredit anything about the physical aspects of him, even if he were 1-A with immeasurable speed, he would still have limitations and weaknesses.

 

[BlueKZX_Animetion]

I guess I'll go with option 3 since it sorta makes sense