Slime Boy Skills (Rimuru Tempest NL)

[Voidnether]

Doesn't really matter, multiple abilities can have overlapping reasoning, so that's not an argument.

No. How are you even able to say that someone who has Hive Mind ability to be Acausality Type 3 just simply because some of their vessels exist in a different space-time? It's still the same consciousness..

There is no need for your clone to exist in another space-time "from the beginning" of that space-time. The essence of Aca3 is that multiple versions of yourself exist in different space-times. It does not need, nor does the definition page mentions or implies, that such a case is an anti-feat.
Her consciousness dividing has nothing to do with her not having Aca3. That's completely unrelated, unless you can prove otherwise using actual definitions rather then made-up theories

When did I say that the clones need to exist from the beginning of space-time itself? What I said, you can't consider a clone of yourself that's in different space-time to be a parallel version of yourself. Hell, you can't even consider a clone to be a parallel version of yourself simply because it's just you but a clone but rather of something that's like "There's another you in the multiverse" <- This is why her consciousness dividing is literally an anti-feat, that's a Hive Mind ability and you cannot use that for Type 3 Acausality, lmao..

 

[Digital_Franz]

You can't really say "I have a problem with this" without even arguing against the defending points. That's not an argument.

True. I'm not really on good condition to explain what I mean but since I have some free time right now I'll try.

I don't think you even read the scans. But in any case, I will give more scans to back it up and elaborate on why Parallel Existence clearly applies for Aca3.
First, from the definition page:

Scan 1:

This is one of the most clear example of Acausality type 3. Although this isn't parallel existence, its an inherent ability of Spiritual lifeforms, parallel existence should inherit it as well.
Not only can they leave their main body in the original world and create a clone to travel to the other world, their bodies are connected by Soul Corridor [Something that can connect two things even if they are in different points in time]. Even if the separate body dies, you can revive it since another body of yourself exists in another world.

I quote you saying "Neither the Core nor the Soul is split", and now quote the scan "She could divide bits of her consciousness into every copy", to the point that they are simply "Multiple versions of her real self". "Alternates" that can act as the main body if the other one is killed, with every alternate being connected to the main body.
That's one of the most clear cut examples of Acausality type 3. Know that the Soul IS the consciousness, albeit divided into many levels.

Pointing all this out, yes she does not split her Core or soul. Confirmed that there is still a "main body" and for Rimuru and Veldora, they are entirely in the imaginary space.

The consciousness being split here just shows that she shares her consciousness and it is not something that needs a soul division.

Again it does not meet the criteria for Acausality Type 3 because their "true self" is the core that is not split and once it is destroyed they are cooked.

A character like Velgrynd through the Soul Corridor can destroy the true body aka the Core.

In fact there is no "other self" because two same souls cannot exist in the same point of time so once again the souls are not split and they just have clones sharing the same consciousness. The Soul Corridor on the other hand allows the Core to be transferred from one body to another and the same goes for information and energy, in short.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Pointing all this out, yes she does not split her Core or soul. Confirmed that there is still a "main body" and for Rimuru and Veldora, they are entirely in the imaginary space.

The latter does not have anything to do with her dividing her soul or core, + once again, its explicitly stated that she "could divide bits of her consciousness into every copy".... so idk why you're completely ignoring that -_-

The consciousness being split here just shows that she shares her consciousness and it is not something that needs a soul division.

The Consciousness IS the Soul.... although again, there are levels of it.

Again it does not meet the criteria for Acausality Type 3 because their "true self" is the core that is not split and once it is destroyed they are cooked.

Not really, because each of the clone has a separate Ego[which is more fundamental then even the "Core"], yet even if the ego of that separate body is destroyed, they can regenerate it.

I repeat, "EVEN IF THE ALTER EGO DIED"....

A character like Velgrynd through the Soul Corridor can destroy the true body aka the Core.

That's Acausality type 3, or range to keep it simple, since Aca3 null for Velgrynd is not a point of this thread
Because its explicitly stated that her Space-Time Continuous strike bypasses space and time and can hit the true body even across different dimensions.

So again, your argument is not applicable here at all, and a bad example too.

In fact there is no "other self" because two same souls cannot exist in the same point of time

That has nothing to do with this.... because that case is for souls that are completely identical to each other, inasmuch as both of them being 100 percent of the original self, not "Split" into multiple[which is what Parallel Existence does]. There is a reason why its called Parallel Existence.

so once again the souls are not split and they just have clones sharing the same consciousness.

Nothing from the novel supports your point, since it seems you don't seem to have understood how the mechanics work.

The Soul Corridor on the other hand allows the Core to be transferred from one body to another and the same goes for information and energy, in short.

That has nothing to do with them not having Aca3 -_-

In short, your arguments focus on a single scan rather then having a broader view over all the collectively related scans throughout the novel.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

No. How are you even able to say that someone who has Hive Mind ability to be Acausality Type 3 just simply because some of their vessels exist in a different space-time? It's still the same consciousness..

Because that's what Aca3 IS, different versions of oneself existing in different space-times that can act as replacements for each other.

So your point isn't really an argument, but rather just ignorance of the standards.

When did I say that the clones need to exist from the beginning of space-time itself?

That is what your prior statement implies

What Tensura gave, instead is an anti-feat in itself that those "clones" must travel into other worlds and then they could serve as a replacement for the "main" body after. And then the most obvious anti-feat of them all: Velgrynd consciousness is divided into every copy of those clones. How is it a parallel version of yourself when they all share the same consciousness?

What I said, you can't consider a clone of yourself that's in different space-time to be a parallel version of yourself.

"Parallel Existence", + the fact that they are simply stated to be "equally real as the main body". so not an argument, you're ignoring the proof.

Also, I noticed, you're using the term "parallel" versions when the term "Parallel" is NEVER stated in the Aca page itself:

Type 3: Temporal Permanence: Characters with this type of Acausality are incredibly difficult to kill, as other versions of themselves - from other points in time and/or from other universes - can survive the destruction of the "original" and act in their place. This also grants them immunity to changes in the past.

Its other versions, not "parallel versions"[although the latter is not a disqualifier since the main point is the "act of replacement".

Hell, you can't even consider a clone to be a parallel version of yourself simply because it's just you but a clone but rather of something that's like "There's another you in the multiverse"

Again, argument from ignorance because each clone among the parallel existences is stated to be a "different version of you".
Also, your argument has nothing to do overall with negating the reasoning for Aca3 itself, and has no support from the Aca3 page...

<- This is why her consciousness dividing is literally an anti-feat, that's a Hive Mind ability and you cannot use that for Type 3 Acausality, lmao..

Once again, not really. Hive Mind and Aca type 3 don't really contradict each other, UNLESS you can bring me some proof from the definition page that they can't co-exist. Because ability overlapping can exist.

 

[Shiraito983]

That's Acausality type 3 negation
Because its explicitly stated that her Space-Time Continuous strike bypasses space and time and can hit the true body even across different dimensions.

this is range btw

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Made-up theories or is it simply because you fail to understand what an Acausality Type 3 is in the first place? I made it very clear, btw.
In a way that you're interpretating it and how I'm interpretating are different solely from this statement alone: What you're interpretating is the fact that multiple versions of yourself exist in different space-times as in you could duplicate a clone of yourself and then spread it around different space-times which is just wrong in so many ways.

None of this actually serves an argument, really, because you're bringing up points that are either previously debunked or claiming that certain points are "Anti-feats" even tho they are never called as "Anti-feats" in the Aca page.

Literally what this means is that if you die in some point, then there's a parallel version of yourself who will replace that. And it's obviously not through cloning yourself and then just sending them to different space-times so that if you die then they could replace you..

Prove that by the definition page, because again, multiple abilities can overlap. Just because their other version in another space-time is a clone of themselves does not debunk aca3, and never stated to be in the Aca page. So again, you're giving an argument from belief.

And these aren't even the parallel versions, again since they all share the same consciousness.

This has already been addressed, so an argument from repetition.

Oh, should I mention that if there's a destruction like a global level threat that eliminates the main version of yourself. Then, the parallel version of yourself will replace that? Or basically if you get killed by someone. That's the whole point also.

I don't see how that even has anything to even do with my points.

Honestly, just take a look at Kurumi's Acausality Type 3 reasoning. It's the simplest of them all, there's no such things as duplicating and then sending your own clone to different space-times/sharing consciousness with every clone and then just say "it's a parallel version of myself". Kurumi doesn't have that.

Just because a character has Aca3 for a certain reasoning does NOT invalidate other characters from having the same ability via different reasoning -_-
So again, yours is an argument from belief of you asserting that Aca3 must only be applicable for characters that achieve those feats via extremely specific ways.

Literally it indicates that multiple "her" has different consciousness but they're still Kurumi. And, obviously this is not through cloning and then sending them to different space-times <- I probably said this like 3 times at this point.

You said it however many times, and it has been addressed that however many times, yet here you are bringing the same arguments again and again[argument from repetition] without actually giving any concrete argument other then arguments from belief.

Please, it's not that hard to answer two of my questions:
1. How do you consider cloning yourself and sending them to different space-times would be a parallel version of yourself thus Acausality Type 3?

Already addressed before, because they can still serve as replacements even if another version of themselves dies in another space-time.

2. How do you consider, as a whole that sharing consciousness with your parallel versions (more precisely, clone) of yourself would be Type 3 Acausality also?

Because that isn't really any anti-feat in the first place. Abilities can overlap, as I said, and I don't see you putting any arguments against that specific point of mine.

Because all of these is clearly an anti-feat,

which it is not, you haven't[because you can't] prove it so by the definitions of the Aca page itself, and rather are just claiming its an anti-feat while asserting arguments from belief.

how are you even using this as an argument for Type 3 Acausality is something that I will never get. To be honest.

That is not my problem, and solely yours if you can't understand the Aca3 definition. At this point, just seek help from a staff in clearing your understanding of how certain abilities work, rather then making up points never stated in the Aca3 page.

Just don't do strawman fr.. And if your reason was based on that CRT who was made 5 years ago,

I never mentioned another CRT in my arguments tho, so no point in bringing that up.

Then just wait for the staff to come here at this point.

I would indeed prefer doing that rather then arguing against someone who's arguments are purely form belief and repetition, and not supported at all by the definition page.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

this is range btw

You can take it as that too, yeah. I'll edit it because Aca3 negation for Velgrynd is not the purpose of this thread.

 

[Voidnether]

Because that's what Aca3 IS, different versions of oneself existing in different space-times that can act as replacements for each other.

Different versions of oneself doesn't mean it could be done through cloning and all of them sharing the same consciousness.

So your point isn't really an argument, but rather just ignorance of the standards.

You're the one who's ignorant of my entire argument, that's two different things and to say what I'm doing is an ignorance despite the fact there are people who has their conclusions similar to mine is not an argument.

That is what your prior statement implies

That's your own interpretation, I never said it was required for the "beginning" of space-time itself. Clearly, you should've understand that they must be different. It's not that hard..

"Parallel Existence", + the fact that they are simply stated to be "equally real as the main body". so not an argument, you're ignoring the proof.

Equally real as the main body doesn't mean anything, what Acausality Type 3 requires you from the definition is that it requires your other version to survive the original "destruction" that happens on your original version.

Also, I noticed, you're using the term "parallel" versions when the term "Parallel" is NEVER stated in the Aca page itself:

Other versions ≠ parallel versions of themselves? Wow.

Its other versions, not "parallel versions"[although the latter is not a disqualifier since the main point is the "act of replacement".

No, there's no replacement as a whole. You can't consider something like: If the main body dies, it will be replaced by the clone is definitely not an act of replacement. Similar things happened with Funny Valentine and he doesn't have Acausality Type 3.

Again, argument from ignorance because each clone among the parallel existences is stated to be a "different version of you".

Different versions yet they all share the same consciousness.

Also, your argument has nothing to do overall with negating the reasoning for Aca3 itself, and has no support from the Aca3 page...

Maybe if you actually read my arguments and not dismiss it, you would've understand it by now.

Once again, not really. Hive Mind and Aca type 3 don't really contradict each other, UNLESS you can bring me some proof from the definition page that they can't co-exist. Because ability overlapping can exist.

Where are you interpretating that they contradict each other? What I meant, Acausality Type 3 in Tensura only supports for Hive Mind abilities by the fact these clones all share the same consciousness.

 

[Voidnether]

None of this actually serves an argument, really, because you're bringing up points that are either previously debunked or claiming that certain points are "Anti-feats" even tho they are never called as "Anti-feats" in the BDE page.

Actually, I never mentioned anything about BDE.. So yeah..

Prove that by the definition page, because again, multiple abilities can overlap. Just because their other version in another space-time is a clone of themselves does not debunk aca3, and never stated to be in the Aca page. So again, you're giving an argument from belief.

On the bolded text, I never said something similar to that. What I'm saying is, you can't use feats that only supports Hive Mind ability to be Acausality Type 3.. And the latter, you do know they all share the same consciousness???

This has already been addressed, so an argument from repetition.

You never addressed that. Come on, trying to dismiss my entire argument now? That's probably the most important point yet you dismiss it so easily..

I don't see how that even has anything to even do with my points.

The "original" destruction of their world, you're the one who bolded it from the definition itself. And I refuted this earlier since simply the main body dying couldn't be considered as the "original" destruction and then the clones replacing it.

Just because a character has Aca3 for a certain reasoning does NOT invalidate other characters from having the same ability via different reasoning -_-
So again, yours is an argument from belief of you asserting that Aca3 must only be applicable for characters that achieve those feats via extremely specific ways.

How are you even interpretating my arguments at this point? What I'm saying, they don't have the two anti-feats that you haven't discussed with me earlier by the clones sending to different space-times and the fact they're all the same consciousness.

You said it however many times, and it has been addressed that however many times, yet here you are bringing the same arguments again and again[argument from repetition] without actually giving any concrete argument other then arguments from belief.

Because you're dismissing the entire argument, to be precise, you're ignoring that argument.

Already addressed before, because they can still serve as replacements even if another version of themselves dies in another space-time.

Serve as replacements doesn't mean anything, Funny Valentine dies and then his other clones on different space-times (keep in mind they all don't share the same consciousness) still doesn't get Acausality Type 3. At this point, I'll even make a CRT about it just to get rejected just so you know that it's not Type 3 Acausality.

Because that isn't really any anti-feat in the first place. Abilities can overlap, as I said, and I don't see you putting any arguments against that specific point of mine.

When did I disagree with the bolded text? It's just your own interpretations and your own headcanon, what I said is that the feats only supports for either Multilocation / Hive Mind. Nothing more.

which it is not, you haven't[because you can't] prove it so by the definitions of the Aca page itself, and rather are just claiming its an anti-feat while asserting arguments from belief.

Jeez, other people literally has similar arguments to mine. If your interpretations on it is wrong, that shouldn't even be my problem in the first place. The problem here is that other person had similar arguments to mine with this. So you clearly cannot dismiss it just like that.

That is not my problem, and solely yours if you can't understand the Aca3 definition. At this point, just seek help from a staff in clearing your understanding of how certain abilities work, rather then making up points never stated in the Aca3 page.

If you read my last arguments, I clearly said about waiting for the staff. Yet they're not in this thread, so the probability I'm gonna do that is 0% as they could just come to this thread. But they don't, so that's just me disturbing their duties.

I would indeed prefer doing that rather then arguing against someone who's arguments are purely form belief and reputation, and not supported at all by the definition page.

What reputation?

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Different versions of oneself doesn't mean it could be done through cloning and all of them sharing the same consciousness.

Doesn't mean it can't either.

You're the one who's ignorant of my entire argument, that's two different things and to say what I'm doing is an ignorance despite the fact

Your entire argument is that "they are clones that divide consciousness so they aren't Aca3" when in fact, that has been debunked several times by me, which you never cared to actually address other then bringing the same points again.

there are people who has their conclusions similar to mine is not an argument.

That isn't really an argument since those "other people" can have the same flaws in their arguments.

That's your own interpretation, I never said it was required for the "beginning" of space-time itself. Clearly, you should've understand that they must be different. It's not that hard..

Indeed, I suppose. If its my own interpretation of what your argument is, then just ignore or correct it. But no, you have to elaborate on what you mean for your opponent to understand, so its not "you should have" but rather that you yourself should have made your points [that have no supporting evidence in the Aca3 page] clearer.

Equally real as the main body doesn't mean anything, what Acausality Type 3 requires you from the definition is that it requires your other version to survive the original "destruction" that happens on your original version.

Oh really, I wonder who's ignoring the fact that they are called "Versions of Velgrynd".... lmao

Other versions ≠ parallel versions of themselves? Wow.

Because each verse has their own definitions, we can't say that Other versions being the same as parallel versions holds true form all fictional settings.
In any case, however, you saying "wow" is not an argument.

No, there's no replacement as a whole.

I wonder....

Type 3: Temporal Permanence: Characters with this type of Acausality are incredibly difficult to kill, as other versions of themselves - from other points in time and/or from other universes - can survive the destruction of the "original" and act in their place. This also grants them immunity to changes in the past.

xD

You can't consider something like: If the main body dies, it will be replaced by the clone is definitely not an act of replacement.

You're contradicting your own wording

Similar things happened with Funny Valentine and he doesn't have Acausality Type 3.

That isn't an argument, since their fandom can very well either not just propose it having Aca3 or have other anti-feats.

Different versions yet they all share the same consciousness.

And? Already been addressed multiple times.

Maybe if you actually read my arguments and not dismiss it, you would've understand it by now.

Oh, I wonder if you can point out even a single point of your argument that I haven't addressed so far...
Because you're not proving that I didn't read your argument, you're just stating it as is.

Where are you interpretating that they contradict each other?

Did you even read my point

Hive Mind and Aca type 3 don't really contradict each other

What I meant, Acausality Type 3 in Tensura only supports for Hive Mind abilities by the fact these clones all share the same consciousness.

Which once again is a highly specific belief from you and NOT supported by the definition page.


Now, I won't be replying further if you only care to bring in the same arguments again and again, nor do I have any reason to argue against already addressed[and debunked] arguments multiple times. I'll just wait for staff[actually knowledgeable on the standards] to evaluate this...

 

[Robo432343]

trinity is right bro

 

[Voidnether]

Now, I won't be replying further if you only care to bring in the same arguments again and again, nor do I have any reason to argue against already addressed[and debunked] arguments multiple times. I'll just wait for staff[actually knowledgeable on the standards] to evaluate this...

Good point considering the fact that you never address my arguments in the first place, instead of explaining why. You simply just said "I addressed this before" which obviously leads to nowhere and obviously it's not gonna resolve any debates if you're playing like that.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

What reputation?

Actually, I never mentioned anything about BDE.. So yeah..

Apologies for that, I meant "Repetition" and "Aca page", its a mistype.
Prolly because I'm addressing a BDE argument in another thread at the same time

On the bolded text, I never said something similar to that.

I'm quoting myself on that bolded part, not you....

What I'm saying is, you can't use feats that only supports Hive Mind ability to be Acausality Type 3.. And the latter, you do know they all share the same consciousness???

Hive mind is simply having multiple shared minds.... Aca3 is having different versions across different space-times that can serve as replacements.... you're only addressing the "sharing the consciousness" point here and not the fact that their parallel existence can exist in different space-times

You never addressed that. Come on, trying to dismiss my entire argument now? That's probably the most important point yet you dismiss it so easily..
The "original" destruction of their world, you're the one who bolded it from the definition itself. And I refuted this earlier since simply the main body dying couldn't be considered as the "original" destruction and then the clones replacing it.
How are you even interpretating my arguments at this point? What I'm saying, they don't have the two anti-feats that you haven't discussed with me earlier by the clones sending to different space-times and the fact they're all the same consciousness.
Because you're dismissing the entire argument, to be precise, you're ignoring that argument.
Serve as replacements doesn't mean anything, Funny Valentine dies and then his other clones on different space-times (keep in mind they all don't share the same consciousness) still doesn't get Acausality Type 3. At this point, I'll even make a CRT about it just to get rejected just so you know that it's not Type 3 Acausality.
When did I disagree with the bolded text? It's just your own interpretations and your own headcanon, what I said is that the feats only supports for either Multilocation / Hive Mind. Nothing more.
Jeez, other people literally has similar arguments to mine. If your interpretations on it is wrong, that shouldn't even be my problem in the first place. The problem here is that other person had similar arguments to mine with this. So you clearly cannot dismiss it just like that.
If you read my last arguments, I clearly said about waiting for the staff. Yet they're not in this thread, so the probability I'm gonna do that is 0% as they could just come to this thread. But they don't, so that's just me disturbing their duties.

Same old arguments

 

[Voidnether]

trinity is right bro

I mean that's your own opinion though. It still throws me off and I'm not saying this simply because it's "weird" on my belief alone.

Well, if you have another examples on a different verse that gets their Type 3 Acausality similar to this then I would be thankful. But other than that, this debate isn't gonna be resolved and it's not just me who disagrees with it regardless..

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Good point considering the fact that you never address my arguments in the first place, instead of explaining why. You simply just said "I addressed this before" which obviously leads to nowhere and obviously it's not gonna resolve any debates if you're playing like that.

I wonder... the staff can judge whether your arguments had been addressed before or not. If they haven't, they'll use it as a counter against the thread, if they have been addressed, they will agree. I have no interest in replying to the same repeated argument again and again[take it as my belief if you want to deny it being the truth]
Only the future will tell

 

[Voidnether]

Aca3 is having different versions across different space-times that can serve as replacements

That's not what Acausality Type 3 is though, and I'm obviously not gonna debate this any further at this point.

Same old arguments

You never addressed it, if you do then you could literally quote it but you didn't do that anyways..

 

[Robo432343]

lets stop cluttering the thread and wait for stuff

 

[Voidnether]

I wonder... the staff can judge whether your arguments had been addressed before or not. If they haven't, they'll use it as a counter against the thread, if they have been addressed, they will agree. I have no interest in replying to the same repeated argument again and again[take it as my belief if you want to deny it being the truth]
Only the future will tell

Goodluck I guess, all that's left is just the staff reviewing the threads in the first place and nobody would disagree with that and well.. They just didn't come (and I'm obviously not blaming them).

Time for this thread to be dead I guess since there's no one debating it and we're just waiting for staff, lmao

 

[Voidnether]

lets stop cluttering the thread and wait for stuff

Yeah, that's what I was gonna do anyways
If this gets accepted, I could upgrade Funny Valentine to Acausality Type 3 tho in which I wouldn't mind to be honest because they're the exact same

 

[Digital_Franz]

The latter does not have anything to do with her dividing her soul or core, + once again, its explicitly stated that she "could divide bits of her consciousness into every copy".... so idk why you're completely ignoring that -_-

The Consciousness IS the Soul.... although again, there are levels of it.

Not really, because each of the clone has a separate Ego[which is more fundamental then even the "Core"], yet even if the ego of that separate body is destroyed, they can regenerate it.

I repeat, "EVEN IF THE ALTER EGO DIED"....

Oh my. Let's not get out of context. Alter EGO does not mean it's another ego. Let's not exaggerate though. Also the fact that there is the main body that feeds all the other bodies further proves my point that the core is not divided even if the soul is divided as you claim. Sharing the same personal concept is the same person.

That's Acausality type 3, or range to keep it simple, since Aca3 null for Velgrynd is not a point of this thread
Because its explicitly stated that her Space-Time Continuous strike bypasses space and time and can hit the true body even across different dimensions.

What? Lol you don't seem to understand what Acausality Type 3 is. Having another body in another dimension is like you said range and Immortality Type 9 not AcausalityType 3. Acausality Type 3 wants everyone to be independent and share nothing in common except their identity. Having the same personal concept disqualifies the whole thing because it's still the same person.

So again, your argument is not applicable here at all, and a bad example too.

That has nothing to do with this.... because that case is for souls that are completely identical to each other, inasmuch as both of them being 100 percent of the original self, not "Split" into multiple[which is what Parallel Existence does]. There is a reason why its called Parallel Existence.

Yeah but the core is not divided. It stays in the main body and Rimuru left his in the imaginary space. Above you said that it has nothing to do with it but how do you want Rimuru to get Acausality Type 3 if for him it doesn't work like for the others and doesn't meet the requirements?

Nothing from the novel supports your point, since it seems you don't seem to have understood how the mechanics work.

Just like there's nothing saying that the cores are split with Veldora and Rimuru being perfect examples and who you want to give Acausality Type 3 to.

That has nothing to do with them not having Aca3 -_-

It has everything to do with it. What I'm saying is that the Soul Corridor is used to transfer the Core from the main body to another. It's the same thing Veldora and Rimuru did.

In short, your arguments focus on a single scan rather then having a broader view over all the collectively related scans throughout the novel.

I don't just put a scan and go for a direct explanation. It's based on several scenes in the LN.

 

[Digital_Franz]

this is range btw

It seems he is unaware.

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

I actually have to disagree with your statement that they have no core or soul.

First the soul corridor connection is done through two or more soul cores, that was always seen throughout the novel.

Here Velgrynd has to be connected through soul corridor:

Gyazo

gyazo.com

Then Rimuru cut the connection between the Velgrynd in his stomach and the Velgrynd outside.

Velgrynd inside Rimuru's stomach:

They made a soul corridor and cut her connection with Michael, who was in her core (heart).

Gyazo

gyazo.com

As you can see the control is inside the core, it even tells us that it is not being controlled because it was being blocked.

If it was just a core then the Velgrynd outside should also be out of Michael's control but that wasn't the case.

Now the Velgrynd outside was sent to another world, another time, etc.

For the following reasons:

Gyazo

gyazo.com

Gyazo

gyazo.com

The biggest problem for Michael and Feldway is that if they destroyed the core or the soul, she would resurrect again.

Why do that if there is only one core and supposedly the core/soul wasn't there?

Also Ultimate Skills like Raguel are inside the core, how can the other Velgrynd's use them then?

Without a core, the Velgrynd outside must have died because it had no core to rely on, since the connection was cut off.

Well anyway, I'm just waiting for the staff, so don't reply to this message, if you want to do it do it in the Tensura discussion thread.

 

[Ashborn69]

1. Key Elements of Temporal Permanence

According to the definition, Temporal Permanence requires:

Other versions of the character from different points in time or universes.
These versions must be able to survive the destruction of the original.
They must be capable of acting in the original’s place.

2. Survival and Function, Not Origin

The definition does not specify that these versions need to be parallel existences or have separate consciousnesses. The focus is on whether these versions can continue the character’s life and purpose once the original is destroyed.

Argument: Clones that survive the original’s death can fulfill this requirement. The fact that they were created by the original doesn't disqualify them because their survival is what matters, not their origin.

3. Clones Acting as the Original

The second key element is that these versions must be able to act in the place of the original after its destruction. Clones, by design, are identical copies of the original in terms of abilities and memories, so they can seamlessly take over the original’s role.

Argument: Clones can act as the original after the original’s destruction, ensuring that the character’s identity and actions continue, which directly fulfills this requirement.

4. No Requirement for Separate Consciousnesses

Nowhere in the definition is it stated that these versions must have separate consciousnesses. The ability to act in the original’s place and ensure the continuity of the character’s existence is what matters.

Argument: Clones, even if they share the original’s consciousness, meet the criteria because they can replace the original and maintain the character’s presence in time or different universes. There is no need for parallel existences with different consciousnesses to qualify.

Conclusion:

Clones that survive the destruction of the original and act in its place should be considered valid under the definition of Temporal Permanence. The focus is on survival and continuity, not on how these versions came into existence or whether they have separate consciousnesses. Therefore, clones meet the requirements and should qualify for Temporal Permanence.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

@Elizhaa

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Agree, though I'm interested in seeing what other staff have to say about the Acausality.

 

[Digital_Franz]

Well anyway, I'm just waiting for the staff, so don't reply to this message, if you want to do it do it in the Tensura discussion thread.

Although I wanted to respect this, I have one last thing to say before I stop responding. This will be my last post.

1. Key Elements of Temporal Permanence

According to the definition, Temporal Permanence requires:

Other versions of the character from different points in time or universes.
These versions must be able to survive the destruction of the original.
They must be capable of acting in the original’s place.

2. Survival and Function, Not Origin

The definition does not specify that these versions need to be parallel existences or have separate consciousnesses. The focus is on whether these versions can continue the character’s life and purpose once the original is destroyed.

Argument: Clones that survive the original’s death can fulfill this requirement. The fact that they were created by the original doesn't disqualify them because their survival is what matters, not their origin.

3. Clones Acting as the Original

The second key element is that these versions must be able to act in the place of the original after its destruction. Clones, by design, are identical copies of the original in terms of abilities and memories, so they can seamlessly take over the original’s role.

Argument: Clones can act as the original after the original’s destruction, ensuring that the character’s identity and actions continue, which directly fulfills this requirement.

4. No Requirement for Separate Consciousnesses

Nowhere in the definition is it stated that these versions must have separate consciousnesses. The ability to act in the original’s place and ensure the continuity of the character’s existence is what matters.

Argument: Clones, even if they share the original’s consciousness, meet the criteria because they can replace the original and maintain the character’s presence in time or different universes. There is no need for parallel existences with different consciousnesses to qualify.

Conclusion:

Clones that survive the destruction of the original and act in its place should be considered valid under the definition of Temporal Permanence. The focus is on survival and continuity, not on how these versions came into existence or whether they have separate consciousnesses. Therefore, clones meet the requirements and should qualify for Temporal Permanence.

I don't think you understood my complaints to begin with. Origin is important because two clones sharing the same self-concept are the same person, while two different versions from another space share nothing in common except their identity. Separate consciousness has never been my problem. I don't know if you realize that on the scan you linked, there is always some kind of difference that is made between main body and parallel existences. It is said that no matter how many parallel existences are killed, as long as one remains then that parallel existence can serve as the main one not the original (the main body is still present).

I actually have to disagree with your statement that they have no core or soul.

I conceded the soul part but not the core part.

First the soul corridor connection is done through two or more soul cores, that was always seen throughout the novel.

It is made between two souls.

Here Velgrynd has to be connected through soul corridor:

Gyazo

gyazo.com

Then Rimuru cut the connection between the Velgrynd in his stomach and the Velgrynd outside.

Velgrynd inside Rimuru's stomach:

They made a soul corridor and cut her connection with Michael, who was in her core (heart).

Michael wasn't in her core, he was manipulating her through his skill and the nature of Velgrynd's ultimate skill that had been granted to her by Veldanava.

If it was just a core then the Velgrynd outside should also be out of Michael's control but that wasn't the case.

Michael controlled Veldora's body without needing to act on his core (when Rimuru retrieved Veldora's core his body was still controlled) so yeah Michael could still control the parallel existence.

Now the Velgrynd outside was sent to another world, another time, etc.

For the following reasons:

Gyazo

gyazo.com

Gyazo

gyazo.com

The biggest problem for Michael and Feldway is that if they destroyed the core or the soul, she would resurrect again.

I don't think it's a problem for them. It doesn't matter to them.

Also Ultimate Skills like Raguel are inside the core, how can the other Velgrynd's use them then?

They don't need to have a core for that. They're engraved into the core and that's it. Can you tell me how Rimuru uses his Ultimate skills while his core is in imaginary space?

Without a core, the Velgrynd outside must have died because it had no core to rely on, since the connection was cut off.

I don't see any reason why she would have died. To further support my point when Rimuru freed Velgrynd she transferred her core into the parallel existence that had been banished using the soul corridor. Imagine that parallel existence had a core. How would it be like merging an evolved core (that Rimuru evolved) with another core?


My problem with Acausality Type 3 for this ability is that there is always a main body and that powers the parallel existences.

There are cases like Rimuru and Veldora whose core is literally in the imaginary space in its entirety, only reachable by the Soul Corridor which links to its parallel existences (Velgrynd reached it in WN) and WN Rimuru then who merged his core with Turn Null and Turn Null resides only in the imaginary space.

So yeah the parallel existence does not divide the core and the true body which is the core is what directs the parallel existences and what must be destroyed to truly kill them.

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

Everything you say is refuted by the scan I gave there, the mind control in her core and having her Ultimate Skill in her core .

Gyazo

gyazo.com

Also, how do they not care? They wanted to get rid of her, she would be a headache for them.

Also, I'm tired of this, they are all the main bodies.

Each one was differentiated as the main one, the Velgrynd outside and the Velgrynd inside Rimuru's stomach.

The one outside inferred the Velgrynd in Rimuru's stomach dead.

Gyazo

gyazo.com

The Velgrynd inside Rimuru's stomach that is explicitly said about the core (which you say as the true body).

 

[Ashborn69]

I don't think you understood my complaints to begin with. Origin is important because two clones sharing the same self-concept are the same person, while two different versions from another space share nothing in common except their identity. Separate consciousness has never been my problem. I don't know if you realize that on the scan you linked, there is always some kind of difference that is made between main body and parallel existences. It is said that no matter how many parallel existences are killed, as long as one remains then that parallel existence can serve as the main one not the original (the main body is still present).

You're focusing too much on the idea of origin, but that's not what determines "Temporal Permanence". The key factor here is survival and continuity, not where or how these versions came into existence. The definition clearly states that as long as these other versions can "survive the destruction of the original and act in its place", they qualify. Whether they’re clones or parallel versions doesn’t change that outcome. Look at the scan you referenced—it describes Velgrynd’s "Parallel Existence" skill, where she creates multiple versions of herself, each containing bits of her consciousness. The important part is that even if one version is killed, another can take its place and act as the “main” one. This perfectly aligns with "Temporal Permanence" because the defining trait is that these versions continue to function "after the original is gone".

You're arguing that clones share the same self-concept, while parallel versions are distinct entities. But that distinction doesn’t matter when it comes to "Temporal Permanence". The clones, just like the parallel versions, can replace the original once it’s destroyed, which is the exact point of Temporal Permanence. The fact that the alternates are connected to the main body, as described in the scan, doesn’t mean they don’t qualify—they can still continue acting independently, replenishing their magic power from the main body, ensuring survival.

You’re also pointing out that the scan makes a difference between the main body and the alternates, but that’s not the issue here. The scan literally states that if the main one is killed, one of the alternates can serve as the main. This proves that they can replace the original, and that’s the exact requirement for "Temporal Permanence". You’re fixating on the idea of separate existences, but what really matters is the "function" —the ability to survive and carry on the character’s actions after the destruction of the original, whether it’s a clone or a parallel version. So, the argument that clones qualify for "Temporal Permanence" is valid. The essence of this concept is about survival and replacement, not about how these versions originated.

 

[Elizhaa]

I am fine with the changes.

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

@Elizhaa

BUMP

 

[Mizuki67]

I am starting to think acausality 3 make sense now with the recent discussion we had with Ashen on discord. So yeah I think I can agree

 

[Eisoks]

Only 2 staff members approval needed, right?

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Only 2 staff members approval needed, right?

Acausality type 3 isn't considered minor according to the discussion rules page, so I'm not sure.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks alright to me as well then.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

looks like this is approved now

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

looks like this is approved now

Yes, but I just relieved my language :v

When I edited the OP it became Spanish, can I put a postscript saying it was approved before the language was changed?

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

i mean it will show as last edited : Date

You might want to fix it again since you'd have to reference this discussion when making changes to the profile