Shulk's abilities

[Theglassman12]

So yeah this is a thing, anyways long story short Shulk has some abilities that makes no sense for him to have. Those being Deconstruction, Matter manipulation, Reactive Power Level, and Resistance negation. The first two is from him having the monado which can manipulate Ether which makes no sense , especially in his Monado 1 sword as it was unable to harm any Homs whatsoever, and if it did manipulate Ether and can do that, none of the Homs would withstand it at all. Reactive Power level from a PIS moment where he could somehow harm a Faced Mechon despite every other instance in the game it's been stated and shown the Monado couldn't remotely harm these guys until AFTER he got the Monado 2, and Resistance Negation from a Chain Attack, something that's only achievable via his allies, meaning it won't work if he's fighting alone, AKA he shouldn't have Resistance Negation at all unless team battles are a thing and even then it's a collective effort, not from one single character.

 

[Thatsafloridathing]

I'll comment on this later, I'm going to be a bit busy for the next hour or so.

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Same here, It is very late for me currently.

 

[Thatsafloridathing]

Alright, so I personally feel like that deconstruction shouldn't be on his Monado I key, but I disagree with with removing it from all of his keys because of this clip which clearly states that the Monado is capable of disrupting the very fabric of existence. There's also the fact that Shulk and every part member in the game can use ether-based attacks in-game.

I think reactive power level might actually be PIS, but I'll wait for either Bware or Josh to comment, I think they know a bit more about it than I do.

Lastly, resistance negation shouldn't be in any key except for his Monado III key, the reason for this being that Alvis can act independently of Shulk, along with the fact that he's also been able to recreate his party members too.

 

[Bware1]

I'm a bit busy but I can answer a few things. Reactive Power Level's main case isn't from harming a faced mechon, though that doesn't hurt it's case. It comes from this https://xenoblade.fandom.com/wiki/Tension_(XC1). "Tension" in Xenoblade is something that improves a character's preformance, passively making them stronger, more likely to hit enemies, etc.

Deconstruction comes from "Either" which among many things can do this

.


Chain Attacks were revised with Xenoblade 2 which Shulk appears in, so we use that.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I agree with removing matter manipulation and deconstruction from Monado I key (Thought the proposal was for a different key) as it didn't make sense to just scale that from the Ether pools. The other justification seems to be scaling from Egil's ability to disintegrate some spear, but don't see how that scales to Shulk.

Reactive Power level comes from raising Tension as the battle goes on. And resistance negation via chain attack is something introduced in XB2 as others laid out.

 

[Bware1]

Well it's more of Egil's use of it, Everyone and everything in Xenoblade uses Either, Deconstruction and Matter Manip are just a few things you can do with it. Though since the Monado in it's first form is incapable of harming Organic Life Forms from Bionis, I suppose that can be moved.

 

[Theglassman12]

Can I see how Shulk's chain attack remotely works? Cause last time I saw a chain attack I recall that being something a driver and their blades could do, not something someone on their own can do.

Ok so we got the reactive power level part out of the way.

@Florida fabric of existance doesn't remotely elaborate on whether or not the monado can control ether and use it as a weapon for its lightsaber if the whole "Can tank Meyneth and Zanza's monado" is anything to go by, which btw I also wanna know where exactly is it stated Zanza and Meyneth's monado's can control ether to be the same way all the Faced Mechon used their ether weapons.

Also not everyone use ether as abilities. Shulk and Reyn don't have ether abilities and the others at best have like one or two ether abilities aside from Melia who just has everything as Ether.

@Bware I know of that line, but that's only for the faced Mechon, not the Monado. There's nothing in that scene that implied the Monado can do the exact same thing and drench its blade in ether to disintegrate anything it hits.

 

[DatOneWeeb]

Don't people gain their power from the blades, they don't actually attack with them? Because without chain attacks, the same effects happen.

 

[Bware1]

https://xenoblade.fandom.com/wiki/Monado "The Monado is a power energy blade that can manipulate the ether around it, and by doing so change the material and immeterial of the world". Is the literal quote that the Monado manipulates either, and that's literally how all of his arts are done, and as stated before everything done in Xenoblade is through the manipulation of Either, including the Deconstruction

 

[Thatsafloridathing]

@Glassman

Everything in Xenoblade's multiverse is made out of ether, being able to screw around with that would definitely give you control over ether. Also, Shulk and Reyn do still have ether-based moves, look at the art descriptions for arts like Aura Burst and every one of Shulk's Monado arts.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

It is true that everything in Xenoblade is made of Ether, but everyone uses it in different ways. It's uncontroversial for Tier 2 characters to have it given the idea of Aegis's essentially being composite blades. But I don't think any of his lower keys really have something like that.

But actually, characters using chain attacks on their own is more or less something exclusive to Torna DLC, which Shulk doesn't appear in.

 

[Bware1]

The thing is TTGC came out after Shulk and Elma appeared, and serves as a prequel story. Pyra/Mythra have gotten stronger since then and Shulk by the time he appears would be on par with them. There isn't any real logical reason why they wouldn't be able to do it on thier own if they have showcased it prior by a far weaker version. The devs just probably didn't know how to pull it off at the time, plus DE might change up the Chain Attack mechanic to match it anyway.

I suppose we could move it to the Tier 2 key.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

It's fine for people like Pyra, Jin, and Brighid, and Aegaron to have it, but it is preferable for Shulk and Fiora to actually demonstrate doing something like that individually before actually giving it to them.

 

[Bware1]

I mean if they knew how implement that mechanic at the time Shulk and Elma appeared, they would have. Since they serve as the Blades to the Drivers and are stronger than Torna Pyra, Jin and Brighid and should be capable of it, but I digress. If that's what's preferred then I won't argue with it. At least not until DE comes out since it might alter the chain attack mechanic to match it anyway.

 

[Theglassman12]

Being able to manipulate the ether around it doesn't mean it has deconstruction by default, especially when again, the Monado 1 does the exact OPPOSITE of what the mechon can use with the ether, which they just weaponized it to deconstruct others, even Dunban, who has an ether based attack btw, is shocked that they're able to do just that, which makes no sense if we're supposed to take the whole "Everyone uses ether so they all have deconstruction" argument seriously.

 

[Bware1]

Just because someone does one thing with ether, it doesn't mean they can't do another thing with it. Though I'm not arguing that everyone should get it, just Shulk since the Aegis' as mentioned above are composite blades and should logically have it. That's why it's been agreed upon moving it to Tier 2.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

>Just because someone does one thing with ether, it doesn't mean they can't do another thing with it.

This would be a burden of proof that you'd have to prove though.

 

[Bware1]

>Just because someone does one thing with ether, it doesn't mean they can't do another thing with it.This would be a burden of proof that you'd have to prove though.

You don't think I already know that? Also proof has already been given for the rest of my sentence on CRT that has already been reviewed, discussed and accepted.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Bware what does Composite blades have to do with letting Shulk decompose others with ether?

Also when has Alvis shown to just summon Shulk's friends to help him fight?

 

[Thatsafloridathing]

@Glassman

I was referring back to the cutscene where Alvis asks Shulk to make a decision for the future of the world.

 

[Theglassman12]

Which scene exactly? There's like more than one scene with Alvis talking to Shulk about the future and stuff.

 

[JoshSSJGod]

The one at the end of the game where Alvis casually creates Shulk's party from memories to help him make a choice.

 

[Thatsafloridathing]

Oh yeah, I'll go ahead and link it.

 

[Thatsafloridathing]

Here it is. It's around 4:20.

 

[Theglassman12]

Where in that entire scene was it implied he created them there as opposed to teleporting them there?

 

[JoshSSJGod]

I'm assuming you stopped the video the moment Shulk returned to make his choice. As literally the first line when he arrives back is this.Would have an image but Fandom won't let me upload it for some reason.

"Forgive my presumptuousness, but I recreated their personalities from your consciousness."

 

[Bware1]

The part where Alvis literally says, "I recreated thier personalities from your conciousness"

 

[Theglassman12]

maybe link it at the part where he flat out says that next time?

 

[Theglassman12]

anyways can I see any scenes on Shulk using his Chain attack in Xenoblade 2?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

He probably didn't know how to make the timestamp specific, but I'll tell them. You can click on where it says "Share" and include which timestamp which will update the URL.

But anyway, this is a better example.

 

[Theglassman12]

thank you, now all that's left that I wanna know is what his chain attack is in Xenoblade 2, cause if it's something reliant on more than one person like the drives with their blades I doubt Shulk would scale with that.

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Shulk is weird in XB2 as he is treated as a "blade" but also not at the same time? Closest thing to Shulk would be a flesh eater which according to Minoth allows a Blade to use their full power/potential without the need of the driver(somehow, which also implies that he is his own driver when alone?).

This implies that Minoth on his own is the same as Minoth with his driver, which means that beings like Minoth should logically be able to do stuff like Chain Attacks on his own.

As for seeing Shulk do this, with the lore of XB2 he most likely can but for in the base XB2 game the closest we get is Shulk doing all the fighting during a Chain Attack while the driver is cheering them on(literally).

Its like 5 am, busy day so I'm gonna go sleep now. Probably got some details wrong with how tired I am but I'll place faith in Florida and Bware to correct those errors.

 

[Theglassman12]

bump

 

[JoshSSJGod]

So, is the idea for right now...

-Move Matter Manip and Decon to Monado 2 key

-Keep Reactive PL as it is.

-Keep Res Negating as it is.

 

[Theglassman12]

You guys haven't shown me any scenes on Xenoblade 2 Shulk using a chain attack.

 

[Bware1]

Shulk is weird in XB2 as he is treated as a "blade" but also not at the same time? Closest thing to Shulk would be a flesh eater which according to Minoth allows a Blade to use their full power/potential without the need of the driver(somehow, which also implies that he is his own driver when alone?).
This implies that Minoth on his own is the same as Minoth with his driver, which means that beings like Minoth should logically be able to do stuff like Chain Attacks on his own.

As for seeing Shulk do this, with the lore of XB2 he most likely can but for in the base XB2 game the closest we get is Shulk doing all the fighting during a Chain Attack while the driver is cheering them on(literally).

Its like 5 am, busy day so I'm gonna go sleep now. Probably got some details wrong with how tired I am but I'll place faith in Florida and Bware to correct those errors.

@Glass You didn't reply to this, also even if solo chain attacks are exclusive to Torna, it's already been shown that Alvis has created people with a thought, so he would still have Resistance Negation

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

He asked for a linked video for the chain attack from Torna, which I don't have access to ATM.

 

[Bware1]

I know, I was just pointing out the fact that he didn't reply to Josh's response, and the fact that Shulk would still have Resistance Negation regardless

 

[Theglassman12]

I didn't reply to that because there's no proof he posted. Again can you give me a clip that he can use a chain attack on his own in Xenoblade 2?