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Shulk
Shulk (シュルク) is the main protagonist of Xenoblade Chronicles. He likes to think things through and is very methodical in his approach to most situations. He was one of the only known survivors on a previous expedition to retrieve the Monado, and as a young man has become a budding researcher set...
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Kirito (Post-Aincrad)
Kirigaya Kazuto (桐ヶ谷 和人, Kirigaya Kazuto), born as Narusaka Kazuto (鳴坂 和人なるさか かずと, Narusaka Kazuto), and known as «Kirito» (キリト, Kirito) in «Sword Art Online» is the protagonist of the main Sword Art Online series. Kirito was chosen to be one of the one thousand beta testers for the closed beta...
vsbattles.fandom.com
Canonical composite fight. Go nuts.
CCing @gamerturk for exculpatory SAO information. Don't know anyone on here who would be able to give exculpatory evidence on Xenoblade information, so I'll need to pull my weight.
Background anecdotes:
First off, I am not counting Gem crafting feat when giving an observation for Shulk. Every cutscene in the game assumes base equipment for every character, including Shulk, with the only thing changing being the Monado (1 -> 2 -> Replica -> 3), and it would be intellectually disingenuous to artificially inflate his feats and abilities this way (not saying that he needs it).
Secondly, there is a debate about SAO speed feats taking place as we speak, which you can read more about here. Let it be said that I sympathise with SAO's fanbase making it clear that Kirito is not nearly OP as the digi order cult hatedom are making him out to be. I will try my best to give my own takes on the matter, but further study is needed.
Power:
Honestly, this part is a bit of a no contest. Shulk used Monado III to ultimately slay Zanza, who in a non-god form (Klaus) was able to destroy and remake the observable universe (as shown at the end of XC1, with not only the Beanstalk going off, but Shulk himself, in tandom with Alvis, and both Zanza and Mayneth's Monado's, doing the same to multiple universes). This casually puts Shulk at 3-A, likely even Tier 2 in terms of destructive capability. Not much else to say here, except that I'm going to need some evidence on how Shulk "ressurected the dead" in the new universe? That seems unfounded to me (Quote: "Resurrected every deceased character in the new universe").
As for Kirito at the end of WoU, I would be comfortable putting Kirito at around moon level (5-C), if not slightly higher (planetary, 5-B). Initially, I would have bought up the reversion of the dragons to a larval stage, but a kind fan of the series on my twitter DBa alt informed me that was a function of the Cardinal system that they were in, not something that Kirito's character posses naturally. Our first of many indications on how SAO characters would struggle on neutral territory (more on that later).
Keep in mind also how SAOverse straight up lacks god tiers (consisting of Gabriel and MAYBE Heathcliff (depending on how you interpret him)). Contrarily, the bouts between the Bionis and the Mechonis, and the nature of Gods in a series universe was basically the plot by the end of XC1, with Mayneth falling to Zanza, someone who had initially put both the Bionis and Mechonis into a stalemate. Shulk, by the end of the game, has surpassed all gods by usurping Zanza.
Oh, and I almost forgot:
Durability:
The wiki seems to put Kirito at nigh-omniscience with immortality, due to the FTL acceleration set off by the LaughCof raid. The issue with this assertion is that the 200 years that translated to the 20 minutes it took for RATH to log both Kirito AND Asuna out of the Underworld put incredible strains on both of their bodies, implying that there is a limit to how long that Kirito and Asuna could have stayed there. Ergo, no immortality.
What the wiki is likely referring to when passing SK Kirito off as immortal is the artificial fluctlight that Higa refused to delete at the end of the series. Even with that said, the personality of the AF Kirito was far different to that of the actual Kirito we know of by the end of the series, and if re-applied as an underworld citizen (in essence, the entire point of the alicization project) would do things that the other Kirito simply wouldn't (as shown by the aforementioned personality shift). Even then, those artificial fluctlights have a limit, as shown by Eugeo's unfortunate death.
But let's talk actual feats. Shulk obviously has his universal / low-multiversal feat(s), and by Newton's 3rd law, anything he could dish out, he could likely take. Keep in mind that with just a Replica, he could trade hands with Zanza casually, meaning that up to an extent, this universe-shattering ability is something that came naturally to him. People will also bring up Shield Art and Visions, but that will ultimately come down to what is interpreted as a Talent Art thrown out by Kirito (I will not attribute any skill to that, and leave that down to this thread to decide).
As for Kirito's ability to take hits, while he doesn't have anything comparable to universal destruction, not only would it be fair to mention his likely planetary abilities such as covering the entire UW sky would indicate that is also what he's able to take in return, but, as proved by his bout with Gabriel, he's also survived decapitation / amputation, as well as Luminous Element / Durability Transfer giving him good sustain that Shulk may or may not have to work around if he wants to put Kirito down. And no, Purge would not be an option because Sacred Arts / Elements would not be interpreted as Auras.
Speed:
This part is a lot tighter. At ABSOLUTE bare minimum, I would put both Shulk and Kirito at lightning level, with both Cardinal using lightning bolts through Luminous Element vs Quinella, as well as Shulk casually taking on Alvis's Sani Telethia, that could not only call down Lightning Bolts from the sky, but is obviously stronger than the casual flocks of Telethia that could beat out Visions through Soul Read, requiring Purge to beat. I will not say anything about Kirito potentially being faster than that for now, as the SAO Speed Downgrade thread still rages on (I recommend that thread for more information). As for Shulk being potentially light speed, I would scale him to Alvis, given the evidence that he is the Aegis Ontos in XC2, and given that the Alrest universe has many casual feats of light speed capability (Jin, Mythra vs Malos and it's indication that all three Aegis's are light speed, and the fact that Zanza is half of Klaus, the master of the Aegis's, implying governance over all three). However, I have been in discussions with a friend, and there are some technicalities with the space-time transition event mentioned, so whether or not that is viable scaling is on hold. The Wiki also mentions Shulk drifting from Saturn to the Moon in under a minute, but this was literally inside his mind and isn't a combat feat, so I don't think it counts.
Hax:
Visions. Enough said.
Nah, I'm only kidding. In all seriousness, though. Visions make basically all of Shulk's matchups, not just Kirito, far more circumstantial than they need to be. It's worth noting Zanza's 'passage of fate' that the visions ultimately run off of, which would make you think that Zanza would screw him out of visions more... right? Actually, no.
Zanza's reason for leading Shulk and co. to "the inevitable" was part of his grand master scheme to make sure the Mechonis was dead, and hold supremacy over all life in the universe that he created. In a zero-sum Death Battle, I see no reason for Zanza to give Shulk any kind of worst possible outcome... UNLESS you interpret Zanza as a part of Shulk, in which case this would become Zanza vs Kirito. Even with all of that considered, by the end of the game, it was not just Shulk that superseded Zanza, but Alvis, proclaiming himself as the Monado. This implication means that Shulk now has full access to the passage of fate, making it his own (hence, reality and perception warping). It's worth noting that multiple times during the Final Boss with Zanza, that he is legitimately surprised that Shulk is able to have Visions, culminating in Shulk and Alvis overtaking him.
Now, I know what you are all thinking when it comes to Kirito, right? "Imagination makes him immortal!"
Hate to break it to y'all, but that isn't actually what happened:
What is in character?:
This is the thing that could tilt this matchup the other way. In spite of Shulk having Multiverse-shaking offenses, near-as-dammit speed, and the ability to modify fate, is much of this really in character for him to use? Unfortunately not.
"All I wanted to do was stop Zanza having his way, that's all. I cannot be a god!" - Shulk, explaining his choice to Alvis.
At multiple points during the story, not just in the ending stretch of the game, Shulk is seen to be a pacifist, as shown with him ultimately sparing Egil in the Mechonis Core, amongst other Faced Mechon such as Metal Face (Munkhar), and Face Nemesis (Fiora). In a way, he also decided to spare Dickson atop Prison Island, when realising that he no longer wanted to fight (Dickson only later succumbing to his injuries). All of this would imply an unwillingness to actually finished off someone like Kirito, an amoral misanthrope no more deadly in motivation than anything Shulk has faced on his journey. That amorality is something that Kirito would be more willing to kill on should he be able to see Shulk as a viable threat to him, as shown by opponents such as Heathcliff, PoH and Gabriel. Then again, amorality could mean that Shulk likens Kirito to Egil, someone who threw his morals aside, and was motivated solely on revenge.
Egil: "If you do not kill me now... my blade will annihilate every last one of your people... even then?"
Shulk: "I won't kill you, but I can stop your blade. And I'll do it... over and over, until... we understand each other."
Overall:
I didn't go into this post wanting to beat Shulk's meat and say that he stomps Kirito with no difficulty, and with the variables, I'm sure that Kirito could find some circumstances to eek out a win. But Shulk is just that many tiers above Kirito in sheer destructive force, and has the adaptive ability to win without much doubt.
But that's just my take. I'll leave the rest to others in this forum.
First off, I am not counting Gem crafting feat when giving an observation for Shulk. Every cutscene in the game assumes base equipment for every character, including Shulk, with the only thing changing being the Monado (1 -> 2 -> Replica -> 3), and it would be intellectually disingenuous to artificially inflate his feats and abilities this way (not saying that he needs it).
Secondly, there is a debate about SAO speed feats taking place as we speak, which you can read more about here. Let it be said that I sympathise with SAO's fanbase making it clear that Kirito is not nearly OP as the digi order cult hatedom are making him out to be. I will try my best to give my own takes on the matter, but further study is needed.
Power:
Honestly, this part is a bit of a no contest. Shulk used Monado III to ultimately slay Zanza, who in a non-god form (Klaus) was able to destroy and remake the observable universe (as shown at the end of XC1, with not only the Beanstalk going off, but Shulk himself, in tandom with Alvis, and both Zanza and Mayneth's Monado's, doing the same to multiple universes). This casually puts Shulk at 3-A, likely even Tier 2 in terms of destructive capability. Not much else to say here, except that I'm going to need some evidence on how Shulk "ressurected the dead" in the new universe? That seems unfounded to me (Quote: "Resurrected every deceased character in the new universe").
As for Kirito at the end of WoU, I would be comfortable putting Kirito at around moon level (5-C), if not slightly higher (planetary, 5-B). Initially, I would have bought up the reversion of the dragons to a larval stage, but a kind fan of the series on my twitter DBa alt informed me that was a function of the Cardinal system that they were in, not something that Kirito's character posses naturally. Our first of many indications on how SAO characters would struggle on neutral territory (more on that later).
Keep in mind also how SAOverse straight up lacks god tiers (consisting of Gabriel and MAYBE Heathcliff (depending on how you interpret him)). Contrarily, the bouts between the Bionis and the Mechonis, and the nature of Gods in a series universe was basically the plot by the end of XC1, with Mayneth falling to Zanza, someone who had initially put both the Bionis and Mechonis into a stalemate. Shulk, by the end of the game, has surpassed all gods by usurping Zanza.
Oh, and I almost forgot:
Durability:
The wiki seems to put Kirito at nigh-omniscience with immortality, due to the FTL acceleration set off by the LaughCof raid. The issue with this assertion is that the 200 years that translated to the 20 minutes it took for RATH to log both Kirito AND Asuna out of the Underworld put incredible strains on both of their bodies, implying that there is a limit to how long that Kirito and Asuna could have stayed there. Ergo, no immortality.
What the wiki is likely referring to when passing SK Kirito off as immortal is the artificial fluctlight that Higa refused to delete at the end of the series. Even with that said, the personality of the AF Kirito was far different to that of the actual Kirito we know of by the end of the series, and if re-applied as an underworld citizen (in essence, the entire point of the alicization project) would do things that the other Kirito simply wouldn't (as shown by the aforementioned personality shift). Even then, those artificial fluctlights have a limit, as shown by Eugeo's unfortunate death.
But let's talk actual feats. Shulk obviously has his universal / low-multiversal feat(s), and by Newton's 3rd law, anything he could dish out, he could likely take. Keep in mind that with just a Replica, he could trade hands with Zanza casually, meaning that up to an extent, this universe-shattering ability is something that came naturally to him. People will also bring up Shield Art and Visions, but that will ultimately come down to what is interpreted as a Talent Art thrown out by Kirito (I will not attribute any skill to that, and leave that down to this thread to decide).
As for Kirito's ability to take hits, while he doesn't have anything comparable to universal destruction, not only would it be fair to mention his likely planetary abilities such as covering the entire UW sky would indicate that is also what he's able to take in return, but, as proved by his bout with Gabriel, he's also survived decapitation / amputation, as well as Luminous Element / Durability Transfer giving him good sustain that Shulk may or may not have to work around if he wants to put Kirito down. And no, Purge would not be an option because Sacred Arts / Elements would not be interpreted as Auras.
Speed:
This part is a lot tighter. At ABSOLUTE bare minimum, I would put both Shulk and Kirito at lightning level, with both Cardinal using lightning bolts through Luminous Element vs Quinella, as well as Shulk casually taking on Alvis's Sani Telethia, that could not only call down Lightning Bolts from the sky, but is obviously stronger than the casual flocks of Telethia that could beat out Visions through Soul Read, requiring Purge to beat. I will not say anything about Kirito potentially being faster than that for now, as the SAO Speed Downgrade thread still rages on (I recommend that thread for more information). As for Shulk being potentially light speed, I would scale him to Alvis, given the evidence that he is the Aegis Ontos in XC2, and given that the Alrest universe has many casual feats of light speed capability (Jin, Mythra vs Malos and it's indication that all three Aegis's are light speed, and the fact that Zanza is half of Klaus, the master of the Aegis's, implying governance over all three). However, I have been in discussions with a friend, and there are some technicalities with the space-time transition event mentioned, so whether or not that is viable scaling is on hold. The Wiki also mentions Shulk drifting from Saturn to the Moon in under a minute, but this was literally inside his mind and isn't a combat feat, so I don't think it counts.
Hax:
Visions. Enough said.
Nah, I'm only kidding. In all seriousness, though. Visions make basically all of Shulk's matchups, not just Kirito, far more circumstantial than they need to be. It's worth noting Zanza's 'passage of fate' that the visions ultimately run off of, which would make you think that Zanza would screw him out of visions more... right? Actually, no.
Zanza's reason for leading Shulk and co. to "the inevitable" was part of his grand master scheme to make sure the Mechonis was dead, and hold supremacy over all life in the universe that he created. In a zero-sum Death Battle, I see no reason for Zanza to give Shulk any kind of worst possible outcome... UNLESS you interpret Zanza as a part of Shulk, in which case this would become Zanza vs Kirito. Even with all of that considered, by the end of the game, it was not just Shulk that superseded Zanza, but Alvis, proclaiming himself as the Monado. This implication means that Shulk now has full access to the passage of fate, making it his own (hence, reality and perception warping). It's worth noting that multiple times during the Final Boss with Zanza, that he is legitimately surprised that Shulk is able to have Visions, culminating in Shulk and Alvis overtaking him.
Now, I know what you are all thinking when it comes to Kirito, right? "Imagination makes him immortal!"
Hate to break it to y'all, but that isn't actually what happened:
What is in character?:
This is the thing that could tilt this matchup the other way. In spite of Shulk having Multiverse-shaking offenses, near-as-dammit speed, and the ability to modify fate, is much of this really in character for him to use? Unfortunately not.
"All I wanted to do was stop Zanza having his way, that's all. I cannot be a god!" - Shulk, explaining his choice to Alvis.
At multiple points during the story, not just in the ending stretch of the game, Shulk is seen to be a pacifist, as shown with him ultimately sparing Egil in the Mechonis Core, amongst other Faced Mechon such as Metal Face (Munkhar), and Face Nemesis (Fiora). In a way, he also decided to spare Dickson atop Prison Island, when realising that he no longer wanted to fight (Dickson only later succumbing to his injuries). All of this would imply an unwillingness to actually finished off someone like Kirito, an amoral misanthrope no more deadly in motivation than anything Shulk has faced on his journey. That amorality is something that Kirito would be more willing to kill on should he be able to see Shulk as a viable threat to him, as shown by opponents such as Heathcliff, PoH and Gabriel. Then again, amorality could mean that Shulk likens Kirito to Egil, someone who threw his morals aside, and was motivated solely on revenge.
Egil: "If you do not kill me now... my blade will annihilate every last one of your people... even then?"
Shulk: "I won't kill you, but I can stop your blade. And I'll do it... over and over, until... we understand each other."
Overall:
I didn't go into this post wanting to beat Shulk's meat and say that he stomps Kirito with no difficulty, and with the variables, I'm sure that Kirito could find some circumstances to eek out a win. But Shulk is just that many tiers above Kirito in sheer destructive force, and has the adaptive ability to win without much doubt.
But that's just my take. I'll leave the rest to others in this forum.
