Showa Godzilla Upgrade

[Metal875]

According to this calc, Ghidorah is 7-B. Godzilla defeated him with the assistance of three other monsters, so he should scale to this.

Furthermore, this is consistent, since Showa is far superior to Mothra, who performed a High 7-C feat.

In the end, I'm thinking Showa Godzilla should be 7-B.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I'm debating whether or not this is an outlier considering Low 7-C to 7-C feats are so consistent throughout the Showa Era it's not even funny

 

[Kepekley23]

High-end feats = \ = outliers tho

 

[WeeklyBattles]

What I mean is the characters have been consistently harmed by 7-C attacks, so them being able to take 7-B attacks out of the blue seems outlierish

 

[Metal875]

Well, there's this feat too, which is consistent since it's the last in the movies chronologically, and in it, Godzilla performs a Town level+ feat. Still very casual.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

That feat is already on Godzilla's and Ebirah's profiles

 

[Metal875]

Oh, wasn't aware of that.

Then why aren't they Town level+, and not Town level?

And also, the 7-B only really scales to stronger monsters, so it's not like it's inconsistent.

 

[SomebodyData]

I'm confused, the calcer says its only in their 1999 incarnations, but this is supposed to be in the Showa Era?

 

[Metal875]

I'm confused, the calcer says its only in their 1999 incarnations, but this is supposed to be in the Showa Era?

Ghidorah's feat was in the movie made during 1967, but it was set in 1999, and thus, the last movie in the Showa era. Godzilla would have thus gotten stronger, so it'd make sense for him to be 7-B.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Not really, it would scale to basically everyone because they all scale to Godzilla in one way or another

 

[SomebodyData]

Oh we talking about the confusing time travel plot aren't we?

That said, the calc (Linked in this calc) is gone, can anyone remake it?

 

[Metal875]

Not really, it would scale to basically everyone because they all scale to Godzilla in one way or another

No, that's wrong. Ghidorah is the god tier in the Showa continuation. He's the only character who is really stronger than Godzilla. So it took all of them to beat him for a reason, and it was mainly Godzilla/Gorosaurus that did the damage to him.

You watched the movies, right?

You'd know by seeing Godzilla beat up the monsters. Like, Gigan doesn't scale to city level because Godzilla easily overpowered him. It'd be like scaling someone who gets stomped to the stomper; it doesn't make sense. Those characters would be in the weaker tiers.

 

[Metal875]

Another semi-related note: Destroy All Monsters marks the official demise of King Ghidorah in the Showa continuity, having been finally successfully killed in battle by the combined melee of Godzilla, Anguirus and Gorosaurus (along with aerial assistance from Rodan and webbing support by a Mothra larva and Kumongas); being the final Showa Godzilla film chronologically speaking, it is likely that the aforementioned daikaiju can have their offensive capabilities scaled up to Ghidorah's own durability (11.16 megatons), but only in their 1999 incarnations.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

What? Gigan is one of the only monsters who ever did any serious damage to Godzilla, and he nearly killed him alongside Megalon

 

[Metal875]

Gigan got took out by one beam from Godzilla and got easily overpowered by him in Zone Fighter.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Gigan got took out by one beam from Godzilla and got easily overpowered by him in zone fighter.

We dont scale any of the profiles to Zone Fighter here, only the movie incarnations. And in the movie incarnations Gigan is portrayed as stronger than Godzilla

 

[Metal875]

Why not?

 

[Metal875]

And in the movie incarnations Gigan is portrayed as stronger than Godzilla

But Godzilla easily beat him up once he got close.

Like, whenever he got alone with Godzilla, as in Godzilla VS Gigan or Godzilla VS Megalon, he was stomped to the ground easily.

 

[Metal875]

To add onto that last comment, Gigan required constant help from King Ghidorah and the fake Godzilla tower when fighting against Godzilla and literally ran away from him.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

With the help of Jet Jaguar. Gigan nearly killed Godzilla on two occasions, he overpowered Angirus who scales directly to the 7-B feat, and he fought and defeated Jet Jaguar who scales directly to Godzilla

 

[Metal875]

Umm... Gigan always needed constant help to even hurt Godzilla. And also, he fought equally with Anguirus.

Might I also remind you that them defeating Ghidorah was much later on than that.

 

[Metal875]

Jet Jaguar who scales directly to Godzilla

How does Jet Jaguar scale to Godzilla?

Gigan beat him up, and then Godzilla came to stomp Gigan. Him scaling is practically impossible.

In Gigan's first movie, the only reason Gigan was a threat was because he was backed by the much more powerful King Ghidorah and the aliens that built a super laser inside that fake Godzilla tower. When King Ghidorah was distracted by Anguirus, Godzilla easily defeated him. As for Jet Jaguar, he is a fodder monster as well so Gigan defeating him is not a feat.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Gigan didn't need any help buzzsawing godzilla, the attack that did easily the most severe visible dage to Godzilla in the entire Showa Era.

Jet Jaguar literally OHKOed Godzilla

Godzilla did not stomp Gigan at all

 

[Metal875]

When did Jet Jaguar one-shot Godzilla? Do you have a link?

Also, Gigan did do that, but he also did need help doing literally anything else. He only scales by the buzzsaw, maybe. Nothing else at all.

 

[Metal875]

Well, is this accepted for the top tiers? Ghidorah, Godzilla, Gorosaurus, and possibly Anguirus are the main ones that would be affected. Possibly even Imago Mothra.

I mean, even if there's problems with Godzilla, there's no argument for it against Ghidorah, since he's the god tier. And since it was the chronological end, this should still scale to the others I mentioned, too.

To add more fuel to the fire, Ghidorah was a very casual life wiper, so his city level feat is already consistent with his role.

 

[SomebodyData]

Life Wiper doesn't actually help, life wipers can range from really anywhere.

And I have to still point out that the actual calc no longer exists, at least not for me.

 

[Metal875]

@Data: Okay, thanks for pointing that out.

But which calc is missing for you? The 7-B Ghidorah one? If so, I can post it here.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@SD I can see the calc and ive actually seen this calc before, and i can say with utmost certainty that this feat would scale directly to enough characters that it would indirectly scale to basically every Showa Kaiju, which would make it either an outlier or would warrant an entirely new key just for this movie

 

[SomebodyData]

@Mario the 7-B one

 

[Metal875]

Oh wait.

Data's right. It is gone...

Hold on, lemme see if I can find it again. I recall it being up a while back, but apparently now it's down.

 

[Metal875]

https://www.narutoforums.org/xfa-bl...ghidorah-the-three-headed-monster-1964.21787/

There it is.

Also...

@Weekly: No. Ghidorah is above literally everything in the Showa continuity; you should know this if you watched the movies. Godzilla beats down pretty much anyone he faces unless they have backup apart from a few. Ghidorah was the only monster Godzilla legitimately could not defeat on his own, and he required the help of several other monsters. This would mean not everyone scales to it. Not everyone needs to scale to a god tier in a verse, and considering this was chronologically the end of the era, it wouldn't scale to every Kaiju who ever fought Godzilla. Even the calcer says it only scales to Ghidorah, Godzilla, Gorosaurus, and Anguirus, because they're the only ones to fight 1999 Ghidorah; therefore, it only makes sense they're the only ones to scale.

@Data: One thing though. A life wipe feat ca help. Ghidorah wasn't taking an eternity to life wipe, so it helps back up his tier. Like, for example, a human can't life wipe with a shotgun, so while it can range, it can't range anywhere.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Godzilla, Anguirus, Rodan, Gorosaurus, and Gigan would all scale to Ghidorah, meaning by extension, Showa Mechagodzilla (Scales to Anguirus), King Kong (Scales to Gorosaurus), King Caesar (Scales to Mechagodzilla), Titanosaurus (Scales to Godzilla and Mechagodzilla), Mothra (Scales to Godzilla), Ebirah (Scales to Godzilla), Hedorah (Scales to Godzilla), and Jet Jaguar (Scales to Gigan and Megalon). Literally the only Showa Kaiju who WOULDNT scale to this are Baragon and Manda.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

And no, Lifewiping is unquantifiable

 

[Metal875]

What? I don't think you fully know the scaling here... Gigan is massively inferior to Ghidorah and needed his help to hold Godzilla off, plus the aliens that made the fake Godzilla tower.

Rodan does nothing much to Ghidorah.

Mechagodzilla would maybe scale, but considering Godzilla destroyed him in close combat, maybe not.

King Kong defeated a 30 meter Gorosaurus, way weaker form.

King Caesar got absolutely annihilated by Mechagodzilla.

Titanosaurus got beat up by both.

Mothra could scale considering she also assisted in Ghidorah's defeat.

Ebirah got demolished by Godzilla with no effort.

Hedorah might scale.

Jet Jaguar is, again, fodder.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I had to watch ALL of the godzilla movies when i remade the profiles, im fully aware of the scaling in the verse

The fact alone that Gigan was able to make Godzilla bleed with his attacks means he scales directly to him

Rodan damaged Ghidorah in the fight

Mechagodzilla stomped Anguirus and King Caesar and his attacks seriously wounded Godzilla

Titanosaurus almost overpowered Godzilla and had to be weakened by sonic waves for Godzilla to defeat him

Ebirah was able to briefly fight Godzilla even though he ended up losing

Jet Jaguar fought Gigan and Megalon and one punched Godzilla

 

[Metal875]

The fact that Godzilla smashed him up and overpowered him with one beam means it doesn't.

The main three (Godzilla, Gorosaurus, Anguirus) did the real damage. Toad can harm Mario and is yet complete fodder in comparison; it doesn't always fully scale.

That's why I said he might scale to city level. He still got stomped by Godzilla in close range though and King Caesar is weaker than both.

Titanosaurus had to have some outside help and Godzilla still overpowered him.

Ebirah just slightly whacked his claws around and Godzilla then fatally injured him with ease. He doesn't scale at all.

He got defeated by Gigan. And you still didn't respond to me about the link to that feat when I asked you about it; not even, "I don't know where it is." I don't remember him ever one-shotting Godzilla. If you show me it, I'll concede in that aspect, but ignoring my question completely doesn't help.

 

[Metal875]

When and if you respond, I'll continue tomorrow after school.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Um, no, Gigan was able to damage Godzilla extensively. Just because he didnt win doesnt mean that damage is invalid.

And yet Toad is listed as being relatively comparable to Mario on his profile.

Godzilla and Mechagodzilla's beams are a match for each other, they had a beam clash that severly damaged both of them. Mechagodzilla in ToM literally lost becuse the girl controlling it killed herself so MG could be stopped. Mechagodzilla still fought Anguirus and beat him so badly that he broke his jaw.

Having help in fighting someone doesnt automatically invalidate the damage they do, and Titanosaurus literally had to be weakened by sonic attacks so Godzilla could defeat him

He didnt fatally injure him though, he just scared him away

...He literally beat him so badly that he broke Gigan's arm, and he would have defeated Megalon on his own had Gigan not shown up in the first place. Yes he needed help fighting both of them at the same time but you cant ignore the damage he did.

 

[Kaiser_Kōnt]

I support the upgrade and the points Metal is making.

Gigan got easily overpowered by Godzilla, went down after one blast of Atomic Breath, needed help to fight him in any battle, and then literally ran away.

I have no idea about the Marioverse but that is wrong from anyone who knows about the games.

That is why MechaGodzilla could scale to the city level feat though Godzilla still easily overpowered him in close quarters combat.

Titanosaurus had to have help to fight Godzilla and then Godzilla still defeated him.

Godzilla ripped off both his claws; then Ebirah screamed and sunk down.

When did he do such? Gigan solidly defeated Jet Jaguar...actually, he was more of a hindrance to Godzilla than anything.

 

[ByAsura]

He one shot a non amped Gigan in Final Wars, he went toe to toe with Gigan in previous films. Godzilla appeared to be far stronger during Final Wars in general, one shotting several Kaiju, Zilla for instance.

You guys didn't mention that Jet was getting teamed up on. Nor did you guys mention that he actually restrained Megalon in the fight, for quite a long period at the start, and when he doubled on him with Godzilla, he also tossed Gigan to Godzilla. (Mute the Volume, there's commentary). Jet was full on being the opposite of a hindrance.

Ebirah second fight, in the first they seemed to be more even, Titanosaurus fight, Mechagodzilla fights - Not a point of argument, just sources.

Against normal blows, they seem to have higher Durability than AP, but against the claws and teeth added to them, they seem to be at a disadvantage, so i'm not for or against City Level, especially for Final Wars Godzilla.