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Shoushin Shoujo Matoi Revision Thread

Lancer45Man

Lancer45Man

1,219
112
Introductio

I promised you guys a Shoushin Shoujo Matoi Revision thread and here it is. I have rewatched the series for a second time and found out that the profiles of both Matoi Sumeragi and Clarus Tonitrus have many stuffs missing which would be explained and added here.

Cosmology
The Cosmology of Shoushin Shoujo Matoi is pretty straightforward. There are 24 Spatio-Temporal Dimensions altogether with the Universe where the humans live itself having 3 Dimensions and the highest being the 24 Dimension where all of creation can be easily controlled and it's a place where no demons exist. It was hinted that there may be parallel worlds but nothing was shown as such. The series constantly portrays the Dimensions as Spatio-Temporal Dimensions with each one being higher one and beings from lower dimensions cannot see or interact with higher dimensional beings and only the ones with gifted Extrasensory Perception would be able to see them. The Gods and Demons aka Nights come from various dimensions and they can possess humans in the 3rd Dimension even when their true body exists in the higher dimension. If a lower dimensional being is dropped into a higher Dimensional realm without any nights or gods protecting them, then they would be erased from existence. The highest level of existence i.e. the 24th Dimension is the place where Shiori Sumeragi was trapped in to stop the Unification of all the dimensions and where Matoi Sumeragi went to in order to do the same plus retrieve her mother and was able to simultaneously see and interact with all of past, present, future of the timeline as well as Reality Warp the entirety of Creation in Episode 12. More on the Cosmology is given here:-

Cosmology Part 1

Cosmology Part 2

Upgrades

Sumeragi Matoi
1) Transformation: In Episode 1 Matoi transformed into her Magical Girl Mode

2) Spatial Manipulation and Time Stop: She warped Space and stopped time in the Process of her transformation in Episode 1 although it's not combat applicable as she never did that again and it was likely the ability of the God being invoked

3) Non-Physical Interaction & Energy Projection: Matoi blocked, attacked, and unknowingly destroyed a Night in the process via her Myriad God

4) Reactive Evolution & Weapon Creation: Matoi can evolve based on the wishes she has as in Episode 4 she was unable to fly but developed wings, in Episode 8 she developed a Weapon to effectively summon the power of myriad gods and kill two nights who she wanted to defeat, in Episode 10 developed a shield that would block and Nullify attacks that she wanted to stop.

5) Power Nullification: Matoi was able to nullify the Super Gravity Field of the Creed Killer in Episode 4 and in Episode 10 developed a shield that would block and Nullify attacks.

6) Healing and Life Manipulation: In Episode 11 Matoi was able to completely Heal everyone affected by the attack of the Nights who were in a near dead comatose state.

7) Higher-Dimensional Manipulation: In Episode 12 Matoi was able to affect all the 24 Dimensions, rescue Shiori, Yuma, and Clarus, reality warp all of existence, and stopped the Unification of all the Dimensions so that no higher dimensional beings would come to the 3D world.

8) Portal Creation and Dimensional Travel: Can create Portals effortlessly and travel through them into Higher Dimension.

9) Resistances to Time Manipulation, Spatial Manipulation, Higher-Dimensional Manipulation, Reality Warping, Existence Erasure: Thoroughly explained that lower dimensional abilities would be unable to affect higher dimensional beings and Matoi herself was Clad with the God of Myriad, a God of the highest order and dimension. For Higher Dimensional beings, Space and Time are easy to manipulate as explained in Episode 12 by Pochi. Matoi survived in the 24th Dimension without her God guarding her which would have otherwise erased her and could resist the effects of the opening of the Gate that was affecting the 24th Dimension all in Episode 12.

Speed: Speed Should be At Least Supersonic (Caught and reacted to bullets early in the Series), Likely Immeasurable (Can exist in the 24th Dimension and could move and exist in either past, present, or future and could even interact with her mother in the past)

Stamina: Should be High

Clarus Tonitrus
1) Electricity Manipulation: Can generate Electricity with her Staff throughout the Series

2) Portal Creation and Dimensional Travel: Can create Portals effortlessly and travel through them into Higher Dimension.

3) Non-Physical Interaction & Existence Erasure: She can attack and erase Nights completely via her staff and has done so in Episode 3

4) Healing: Clarus can heal herself if given some time as she did in Episode 4

5) Resistance to Time Manipulation, Spatial Manipulation, Higher-Dimensional Manipulation, Existence Erasure: Could resist getting erased by the Higher Dimensions even when she wasn't protected by her God. Her God is at least 15 Dimensional and as such, Lower Dimensional Manipulation and Space Time hax are ineffective against her as long as she is protected by her God

Speed: Speed should be At Least Supersonic (Faster than Matoi)

Stamina: Should be High

Conclusion
So that's all, both Matoi and Clarus gets some Abilities addition and if anyone wants, I can list all the abilities for the nights too if they want a profile of the Nights.
 
Actually yeah but I feel like that would be non-combat applicable since she never stopped time again in the series
 
Matoi

Non-Physical Interaction & Existence Erasure: When did this happen again?

Resistances to Time Manipulation, Spatial Manipulation, Higher-Dimensional Manipulation, Reality Warping, Existence Erasure: Again i need to look into this sounds iffy, resistance to existence erasure is legit, the others i am not sure was ever said to be a thing.

Likely Immeasurable: Sounds iffy to me, being higher dimensionsal or existing in a higher dimension doesn't give you immeasurable speed, that reminds me matoi's mom should get her speed put at unknown, she only had that cause she is higher dimensionsal, also moving and existing in either past, present, or future doesn't grant immeasurable speed, are you sure this isn't time travel?

And when did matoi ever meet her mom in the past again? My memory of the series must be pretty vague.

The rest of the abilities are ok though.

Clarus

Again fine with resistance to existence erasure but the others are iffy, and she wasn't fine without her god she was being erased, but having a god does grant existence erasure resistance though.

Does her lightning attacks come from the clouds? If nope then she doesn't have mhs attack speed.

The other abilities are ok
 
Matoi

1) Nights are Non-Corporeal beings and Matoi can see and effect them. She erased the Night possessing that artist unknowingly while another higher Dimensional Night was watching them which happened from 20:16 - 20:30 in Episode 1

2) Pochi in Episode 12 states that there is only Space to control for 3D beings and since they aren't higher dimensional beings they cannot control Time. This implies that Higher Dimensional beings are above 4D or Time and it was even shown when Matoi at the end of Episode 12 could interact with her mother in the past and witness the events in the future and see what is to come in the future. So she would be likely unaffected by Space-Time hax as well as Higher Dimensional Manipulation up to at least 23rd Dimensional since she is clad with the Highest Dimensional God who protects her passively after she awakened herself in Episode 10.

3) She isn't time traveling. She was in the 24th Dimension in Episode 12 and in 16:50 to 18:10 she was shown to appear in the past of her mother and interact with her directly and even view the events in the present. Also since her God comes from beyond 4D, Likely or Possibly Immeasurable seem to be okay.

4) 16:50 to 18:10

Clarus

1) The same reasons as above. I'm going by how the Series portrays the Dimensions as actual Spatio-Temporal Dimensions and even stating how only humans can control Space due to their 3D nature and not time as it's a higher dimension

2) I thought Lighting attacks in general are regarded to be MHS regardless of where they come from. Her attacks come from her Staff and it was stated multiple times to be Lighting for example in Episode 12.
 
Matoi

1) Non physical interaction is fine, existence erasure is not, it was never stated from what i saw there that the night was erased from existence, destroy something =/= erasing it from existence.

2) Nights are higher dimensional, but matoi isn't so don't see how this gives her resistances.

Need some time stamps of matoi interacting with her mom in the past, and witnessing future events.

Clad in a higher dimensional being is not equal being higher dimensional, again matoi got hurt by a regular bullet, kind puts a damp on her always being passively protected and pretty sure she has been in danger/harmed in other instances and 24-D god didn't just protect her from it.

3) She isn't time traveling, she is just seeing her mother's memories. And being higher dimensional doesn't automatically grant immeasurable speed.

Clarus

1) Already went over this above

2) No you have to prove the lightning is real lightning for it to be accepted and real lightning is mhs+ not mhs.
 
Matoi

1) Then what would it be?

2) Matoi is clad by her her God which gives her the power of the Gods. Logically it would give her Resistances to Space-Time warping since Gods aren't bound by lower Dimensional space time and even granted her the ability to survive in higher dimensions which is impossible if you don't have a God or Higher Dimensional being protecting you.

I provided the Time Stamp along with the Episode link in the previous comment. And her being affected by the bullet was in Episode 2 when she didn't even awaken her true power and she awokened her powers completely in Episode 10 against that fire manipulating Night where the God passively shielded her and nullified the attack from that night.

3) She interacted with her mother too saying how she will save her to which her mother responded and confidently departed to the higher Dimension knowing Matoi will come for her.

Clarus

2) The only proof is that the lightning being called lightning consistently through the series. Idk if that qualifies or not.
 
Matoi

1) Just standard energy manipulation

2) Having higher dimensional powers, not equal being higher dimensional.

Need time stamp of this feat in episode 10, cause your making it seem like matoi can't be affected by anything cause of her god which sounds like an exaggeration, need proof of this.

3) So she has the ability to time travel, i don't think it's immeasurable speed.

Clarus

2) It doesn't qualify then.
 
Doesn't it also say that time and space are easy to manipulate for them? That lends more to it being time travel than pure speed.
 
2) Her god indeed protected her, but afterwards she actively block attacks, the god doesn't just null/protect her from everything as you might be suggesting.

3) The scans you posted only said 3-D beings can't stop time, that doesn't prove the gods are immeasurable in speed and as i already said being higher dimensional doesn't automatically grant immeasurable speed.
 
2) Because she didn't have that power and her God stepped in to protect her. Afterwards she became very capable to doing stuffs on her own which is why the God didn't do anything and let her do it. Same thing happened in the post credits of Episode 2 where Clarus fires a gun at Matoi but her God blocks it because he knew Matoi cannot protect herself. It's more like Pseudo Passive. But that's completely a different thing. What the original argument was is that her God, being from a 23D realm at least, would have the ability to not be affected by Space-Time manip and even Manipulation of comparative lower dimensions such as the 12th or 15th. Since the God himself is protecting Matoi, it would likely give her the Resistances to or at the very least be mentioned that her God cannot be affected by Space-Time hax.

3) The scans I posted said 3D world has nothing but Space so they cannot affect Time as time is 4D. The Gods themselves have witnessed the endless cycle of Destruction and Rebirth of the Universe due to being in the Higher Dimension and saw Shiori Sumeragi being the first to stop it. All the higher dimensional characters in this wiki have Immeasurable Speed because they exist beyond the 4th dimension and in the series too, they refer to dimensions as Spatio-Temporal Dimensions stacked higher up.
 
2) Seems very speculative to me really, i don't know if i am comfortable with the interpretation that that the god will just protect her against anything that she can't deal with.

You used episode 2 as an example but i can again bring up the example of her being harmed by a bullet, but you will no doubt say that's cause she wasn't awakened, but i can say you yourself just brought up that this was a thing before she became awakened so what exactly makes her being awakened special? And what proves that in every instance of her possibly being harmed or killed her god will protect?

3) I still don't think it proves immeasurable speed only thing those scans say is that the lower dimension has nothing but space, thus 3-D beings can't stop time, this is referring to abilities, not speed, and it doesn't say the gods are beyond linear time.
 
2) I used Episode 2 as an example of how her God saved her. This happened at the end of the Bank Robbery where Clarus saved everyone as well as when she got attacked by a bullet (for some odd reasons). Her awakened form is when she could fully utilize her God's full power which is how she could surpass Clarus. And again, my original comment or the other comments in the thread wasn't even arguing about her God protecting her passively. I argued about how her God can protect her from any Space Time hax.

3) Her God comes from a realm way beyond 15D. That's by default above linear 4D time and the fact that the God possessing Pochi says they have witnessed the destruction and Rebirth of the Universe countless times is enough proof that they exist above linear time. Heck even Gurren Lagann (Verse) has 11D characters who, for some reason, can literally jump into the AS Universe that exists between 10 and 11D and yet they have Immeasurable Speed based on this despite not have a single proof of Immeasurable Speed feat display or the fact that they exist beyond linear time. Again the scans I posted says 3D Universe has nothing but Space so they can't Manipulate a higher Dimension above their own which is Time aka 4D. Gods come from way beyond 4D and as such exist beyond Time. Even Luciela in Episode 2 says how lower dimensional beings cannot see or even interact with Higher Dimensional beings which all support heavily that Gods and Nights exist beyond their Space-Time
 
That's not even Immeasurable Speed. That Probability Fluctuation feat is a 4D Omnipresent Attack feat since Lord Genome stated that the attack would hit the AS in every point in Time in Past Present Future simultaneously. It's even blatantly posted in the page.
 
The whole "Attack up and down a Timeline" was called "Probability Fluctuation" by Lord Genome. It was an Omnipresent attack that hit the Anti-Spirals at every point in time in past present future when they were trying to attack the Dai Gurren Team through Time. But It's not why they have Immeasurable Speed. Even before the revisions when both AS and Simon were only tier 2, they were just MFTL+. After they became Tier 1, they were bumped to likely Immeasurable as part of their High 1-C tier just because they existed in a realm between 10 and 11 D.
 
@Raynor

I don't really get what you're saying she not 1-B physically she 1-B with the power of her God.

Edit :Also I haven't watch the anime yet but from the OP cosmology screen shot 1-B look legit.
 
From the Op:

Higher-Dimensional Manipulation: In Episode 12 Matoi was able to affect all the 24 Dimensions, rescue Shiori, Yuma, and Clarus, reality warp all of existence, and stopped the Unification of all the Dimensions so that no higher dimensional beings would come to the 3D world.

I might have to watch Ep12 to confirm this though since I haven't watch the anime.
 
because the bullet did not affect him when he was shot at the bank scene (and without mentioning that they mentioned that the more dimensions they raise their power will rise with them "and if they exceed their limit they can even die and disappear")

as it happens in the fight of claurus vs creed kiler in dimension 12 when it reaches its limit and decides not to kill it and that it better kill the dimension itself "although that does not happen since I get his desire and could travel beyond the dimension 12 "(although obviously could not reach 24" or possible 23 ")

the time stop sounds if it works since when the enemy applied it in the body of the night it could not move and attack "and that the transformation lasted a minute" (the same must be a power that does not control or is useless against the nights)

on the icomensurable speed if it is real since when he goes to the door he was able to interect and travel in his mother's past "even feel smells like his mother's curry"


My verdict is that if it is hyperversal only if it goes to dimension 24 (the maximum dimension of its world) and its level would be lower depending on what dimension it is (although using very high dimensions is somewhat dangerous since it consumes power to resist said dimension and do not die)
 
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