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Seeing as Light can influence when and HOW people die using the Death Note, would he have fate manipulation?
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Should Light have Fate/Probability Manipulation?
- Thread starter WeeklyBattles
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Wouldn't it be more akin to Probability Manipulation then full Fate Manipulation?
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- #5
@Dark Actually, seeing as it can only happen within the realm of physical possibility, yeah, it's probably more akin to probability manipulation
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http://deathnote.wikia.com/wiki/Rules_of_the_Death_Note
Written in Section#-Rule#
1-3. If the cause of death is written within the next 40 seconds of writing the person's name, it will happen.
6-1. The conditions for death will not be realized unless it is physically possible for that human or it is reasonably assumed to be carried out by that human.
8-1. You may also write the cause and/or details of death prior to filling in the name of the individual. Be sure to insert the name in front of the written cause of death. You have about 19 days according to the human calendar in order to fill in a name
11-1 Even after the individual's name, the time of death, and death condition on the Death Note were filled out, the time and condition of death can be altered as many times as you want, as long as it is changed within 6 minutes and 40 seconds from the time it was filled in. But, of course, this is only possible before the victim dies.
11-2 Whenever you want to change anything written on the Death Note within 6 minutes and 40 seconds after you wrote, you must first rule out the characters you want to erase with two straight lines.
11-3 As you see above, the time and conditions of death can be changed, but once the victim's name has been written, the individual's death can never be avoided.
27-2 If you write, die of disease for the cause of death, but only write a specific time of death without the actual name of disease, the human will die from an adequate disease. But the Death Note can only operate within 23 days (in the human calendar). This is called the 23 day rule.
58-1 By manipulating the death of a human that has influence over another human's life, that human's original life span can sometimes be lengthened.
62-1 Once the victim's name, cause of death and situation of death have been written down in the Death Note, this death will still take place even if that Death Note or the part of the note in which it has been written is destroyed, for example, burned into ashes, before the stated time of death.
Written in Section#-Rule#
1-3. If the cause of death is written within the next 40 seconds of writing the person's name, it will happen.
6-1. The conditions for death will not be realized unless it is physically possible for that human or it is reasonably assumed to be carried out by that human.
8-1. You may also write the cause and/or details of death prior to filling in the name of the individual. Be sure to insert the name in front of the written cause of death. You have about 19 days according to the human calendar in order to fill in a name
11-1 Even after the individual's name, the time of death, and death condition on the Death Note were filled out, the time and condition of death can be altered as many times as you want, as long as it is changed within 6 minutes and 40 seconds from the time it was filled in. But, of course, this is only possible before the victim dies.
11-2 Whenever you want to change anything written on the Death Note within 6 minutes and 40 seconds after you wrote, you must first rule out the characters you want to erase with two straight lines.
11-3 As you see above, the time and conditions of death can be changed, but once the victim's name has been written, the individual's death can never be avoided.
27-2 If you write, die of disease for the cause of death, but only write a specific time of death without the actual name of disease, the human will die from an adequate disease. But the Death Note can only operate within 23 days (in the human calendar). This is called the 23 day rule.
58-1 By manipulating the death of a human that has influence over another human's life, that human's original life span can sometimes be lengthened.
62-1 Once the victim's name, cause of death and situation of death have been written down in the Death Note, this death will still take place even if that Death Note or the part of the note in which it has been written is destroyed, for example, burned into ashes, before the stated time of death.
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Yeah, it always seemed more akin to probability manipulation than death manipulation.
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I agree with probability manipulation; although, limited fate manipulation might be a better phrase if you're going to say Fate manipulation.
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I am also fine with "Limited Probability Manipulation".
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- #14
Well yeah he cant do that but i was looking at more how he can control the fate of others and can control the way they die (within reason), but it's more probability manipulation instead of fate maniplation
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Couldn't he? What, for example, what would stop Light from writing, say, "[PossiblyelderlybutlikelynecessarilyrichpersonthenameandfaceofwhichLightknowsgoeshere] Writes & submits a will, listing Light Yagami as the inheritor of his fortune & promptly arranges his death."Hazerddex said:
I mean, I suppose that what's "reasonably" possible may fall into question with supernatural abilities, especially ones that come from settings other than Death Note. In theory, what someone might do "reasonably" can also be influenced by coercion, exortion, entrapment, bargaining, or administering of drugs.
Or, given possible time constraints of getting a will legally set-up, he specifies someone who may already have them in his will.
Heck, even if Light Yagami is not in someone's will, what if another character who figures out how to use the Death Note -ex: Someone who can thoroughly read minds, analyze things for info, etc.- obtains it. Couldn't they use it for such purposes, if they're in someone's will? It seems possible, especially in a Versus Match.
There's probably tons of other ways of exploiting it, too, as I currently understand things.
Possible legal complications & other character interfering aside, what rules of the Death Note actually prevent such exploitation? Most seem to relate to what you can do involving how the person dies.
On an unrelated note, the rules of the Death Note have some interesting, some seemingly conflicting rules.... Arguably, some may be worth mentioning in the profile
9-1: The Death Note will not affect those under 780 days old.
25-2: The Death Note must not be handed to a child under 6 years of age, but Death Notes that have been dropped into the human world, and are part of the human world, can be used upon humans of any age with the same effect.
29-1: You cannot kill humans at the age of 124 or over with the Death Note.
29-2: You cannot kill humans with less than 12 minutes of life left in human calculations.
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the Death Note is made by Shinigami its not a Djinns lamp or a monkeys paw. the book was made for the single purpose of ending human lives not granting wishes or changing peoples fate.
if that was the case Light could have just wrote "Light will never die," in the death note and he would live forever. so no the Death note defenintaly can't manipulate fate
if that was the case Light could have just wrote "Light will never die," in the death note and he would live forever. so no the Death note defenintaly can't manipulate fate
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Exept that's extending life, which is against the rules of the Death Note
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First off, Hazerddex, I know it's my post you quoted, but you shouldn't quote walls of text. And nonetheless, in my example, Light would be setting up for someone to create a will & then commit suicide.
Rule 6-1. The conditions for death will not be realized unless it is physically possible for that human or it is reasonably assumed to be carried out by that human. As in the example, a rich &/or elderly person would have plenty reason to write a will, & reason to include Light if they know him. Also, rule 10-1: Suicide is a valid cause of death. Basically, all humans are thought to possess the possibility to commit suicide. It is, therefore, not something unbelievable to think of. Using the Death Note to set-up someone's suicide also certainly isn't out of the question either. So the scenario I proposed seems within the abilities of the Death Note, if you ask me. There are definitely limitations, some defined, but there does seem to be some room in the capabilities of the Death Note for Fate Manipulation, if you ask me.
Rule 6-1. The conditions for death will not be realized unless it is physically possible for that human or it is reasonably assumed to be carried out by that human. As in the example, a rich &/or elderly person would have plenty reason to write a will, & reason to include Light if they know him. Also, rule 10-1: Suicide is a valid cause of death. Basically, all humans are thought to possess the possibility to commit suicide. It is, therefore, not something unbelievable to think of. Using the Death Note to set-up someone's suicide also certainly isn't out of the question either. So the scenario I proposed seems within the abilities of the Death Note, if you ask me. There are definitely limitations, some defined, but there does seem to be some room in the capabilities of the Death Note for Fate Manipulation, if you ask me.
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but they would have to know light as you said and it would be pure luck that they put them in there will. so that would not be fate manipulation.
as i said the deathnote can cause death but it can't force some one to give another person all there money befoer they die. it also can't give Light the ability to atler a persons fate exept to kill them. thats like saying light can write hes the king of the world in the death note and the note book would make it happen. there was no case where this happened in death note so thats a huge asssumption.
if the mear act of killing some one by writing ther name down in a note book gave a person fate manipulation. then every one who writes down a name of a person for a hitman to kill or uses curse type magic has fate manipulation.
if anything the death note is a more sofisticated form of a cursing doll. where you put the persons name on it then nail it to cause harm or death to the person whos name is on the doll.
but instead of nails your write the cause of death.
as i said the deathnote can cause death but it can't force some one to give another person all there money befoer they die. it also can't give Light the ability to atler a persons fate exept to kill them. thats like saying light can write hes the king of the world in the death note and the note book would make it happen. there was no case where this happened in death note so thats a huge asssumption.
if the mear act of killing some one by writing ther name down in a note book gave a person fate manipulation. then every one who writes down a name of a person for a hitman to kill or uses curse type magic has fate manipulation.
if anything the death note is a more sofisticated form of a cursing doll. where you put the persons name on it then nail it to cause harm or death to the person whos name is on the doll.
but instead of nails your write the cause of death.
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Yes, but one of the Death Note's rules is specifically:
Rule 6-1. The conditions for death will not be realized unless it is physically possible for that human or it is reasonably assumed to be carried out by that human.
Rule 6-2: The specific scope of the condition for death is not known to the gods of death, either. So, you must examine and find out.
http://deathnote.wikia.com/wiki/Rules_of_the_Death_Note
I don't like repeating myself but still. It is able to cause situations that reasonably involve or lead up to someone's death. And writing your will before you commit suicide is reasonable. It can cause car crashes, diseases & can definitely influence a human's behaviour.
"Light becomes king of the world" is not something reasonably assumed to be carried out in most cases, nor is it something easily possible.
At the very least, more than causing harm to someone is usually needed for a vehicle to crash.
And yes it would be pure luck if the person DID know Light to begin with, but having them put someone in their will prior to death seems like a reasonable part of the suicide.
Yes it's pure luck they know each other, but the circumstances being pre-existing doesn't mean that them being manipulated ISN'T Fate Manipulation or the like.
Rule 6-1. The conditions for death will not be realized unless it is physically possible for that human or it is reasonably assumed to be carried out by that human.
Rule 6-2: The specific scope of the condition for death is not known to the gods of death, either. So, you must examine and find out.
http://deathnote.wikia.com/wiki/Rules_of_the_Death_Note
I don't like repeating myself but still. It is able to cause situations that reasonably involve or lead up to someone's death. And writing your will before you commit suicide is reasonable. It can cause car crashes, diseases & can definitely influence a human's behaviour.
"Light becomes king of the world" is not something reasonably assumed to be carried out in most cases, nor is it something easily possible.
At the very least, more than causing harm to someone is usually needed for a vehicle to crash.
And yes it would be pure luck if the person DID know Light to begin with, but having them put someone in their will prior to death seems like a reasonable part of the suicide.
Yes it's pure luck they know each other, but the circumstances being pre-existing doesn't mean that them being manipulated ISN'T Fate Manipulation or the like.
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and? again does that meen we should put fate manipulation on everyone with the ability to curse a person to death. because if they did it to some one who they knew had them in a WIll for does that make them have fate Manipulation? thats not fate manipulation thats called being clever and smart. (also amoral but were not talking about the morals behind such a thing)
the act of killing and death does not mean they can Control or manipulate Fate.
now if light was able to do this to a complete stranger who never know light in his entire life and never put in his will but light still gain all the mans possessions then THAT would be fate manipulation. but thats not the case.
the act of killing and death does not mean they can Control or manipulate Fate.
now if light was able to do this to a complete stranger who never know light in his entire life and never put in his will but light still gain all the mans possessions then THAT would be fate manipulation. but thats not the case.
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Not gaining something doesnt mean its not fate manipulatin, he still has control over when and how they die
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yes and so can a person with a cursing doll say burning the doll caused there target to burst into flames, dumping the doll caused them to drown etc. but does that mean everyone with cursing dolls should now have Fate manipulation?WeeklyBattles said:
same with hiring a hitman and telling them to kill a person in a spacific way. but again thats not Fate Manipulation
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I'd say so, yes
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that meens everyone with the power to curse a person to death in a varaity of ways or hire some one to do it. should have fate manipulaton added to there profile as well. which meens a huge overhaul to this siteWeeklyBattles said:
at the same time does that meen if light can say a perosn ded from a gammaray burst does that mean they would be the only person hit by a gamma ray burst?
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Not necessarily. Everyone with Fate Manip has the power to do that but not everyone who can do that has fate manip
Seeing as it would be physically impossible for just a single person to be hit by a gamma ray biurst and the Death Note specifies that not only does it have to be physically possible for the person to be killed in such a way, but ONLY that person can be affected, i'd say no.
Seeing as it would be physically impossible for just a single person to be hit by a gamma ray biurst and the Death Note specifies that not only does it have to be physically possible for the person to be killed in such a way, but ONLY that person can be affected, i'd say no.
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then i wouldn't say its Fate manipWeeklyBattles said:
more like hiering a hitman who never fails at his job but he can't do impossible methods of killing like nuking a person but making sure they are the only thing hit by the nuke.
it's insuring the human dies but not chaging fate. which is why i said its more like cursing to death then manipulating fate.
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I thought that we agreed about adding "Limited Probability Manipulation (Strictly when arranging people's deaths)"?
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We did, it was already added
