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That's actually incorrect. The Phantom Thieves in Strikers are much weaker due to being rusty and the fact Igor is not present, meaning Joker can't access his strongest Personas. That statement there is just for gameplay reasons it seems.
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Shin Megami Tensei Abilities
- Thread starter XXKINGXX69
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Haru says that Akane's clones are likely the strongest foes they've encountered yet and he has the most powerful personas imaginable. Lavenza literally says that power could be even greater in that scanThat's actually incorrect. The Phantom Thieves in Strikers are much weaker due to being rusty and the fact Igor is not present, meaning Joker can't access his strongest Personas. That statement there is just for gameplay reasons it seems.
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That's near Endgame for all of that. Also she says "reclaiming the power you once held" as in he didn't have it at the start, which is my point. I agree with them being stronger than they were in OG 5 at that point but definitely not in the beginning. Especially since Lavenza says Joker lost his most powerful Personas at the start.
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As I've stated multiple times before, this causes an issue with the scaling chain. My point is that a level 81 Yu would be as powerful as his late-game key.
Again, I've already established that levels are acknowledged in-lore.
MarvelFanatic already explained why this is untrue, but, even if it was, this is not an apt comparison in the slightest. I'm only comparing the levels of Persona and enemies within the framework of a singular entry. I'm not trying to apply the same logic to multiple games.
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Bump
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No, late-game Yu would just be stronger. You're making stuff up
They are, but the number isn't
What I'm saying is a level 82 enemy wouldn't be stronger than a level 42 enemy by default
Reclaiming a power he once had doesn't mean he is weaker, it could be talking about abilities. He lost his most powerful Personas because he lost the comendium, he can regain full power at the beginning of the game
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I honestly don't understand what you're arguing at this point. If Yu has access to Beelzebub, a Persona that cannot be fused until well into the late-game, then he must either be as powerful as his late-game key (which is unlikely, given how he struggles with Shadow Naoto), or the depiction of Shadow Naoto taking hits from Beelzebub is an outlier that shouldn't be used for scaling.
You are under the impression I am arguing Beelzebub is superior to Shadow Naoto simply because the former's level is higher than the other's. However, I am not employing this line of reasoning in the slightest. What I am doing is using the levels of Persona and enemies in order to determine approximately when in the game Yu would have access to a given Persona. Level 80+ enemies do not start appearing in the game until the very end of Yomotsu Hirasaka. If I were using level scaling, which you seem to believe I am, I would use this as evidence to suggest the various shadows fought in the dungeon scale to late-game Yu, which is clearly not what I'm arguing. My point is that Beelzebub, as a level 81 Persona, is intended by the developers of the game to be acquired sometime during the exploration of Yomotsu Hirasaka, which obviously occurs well after the Ameno-Sagiri fight. Beelzebub isn't stronger than Ameno-Sagiri because 81 is a higher number than 75. Beelzebub is stronger than Ameno-Sagiri because, at level 81, Yu would be at a point in the game that occurs after he had already defeated Ameno-Sagiri.
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Why can Yu only get Beelzebub in the late game? You can get to level 81 at that point in the game
So? Yu can be a lot higher levelled than them
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No he could not. This conversation with Lavenza was during Alice's Jail, the start of the game. So no, he cannot have his full power here. You do realize that if the Compendium is empty, then there are no Personas for Joker to use right?
His Personas are his power. No Personas = No power.
Anyway, this topic has no place in the thread here. You can discuss this in another thread when you're done with this one.
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These are both non-arguments. It's theoretically possible (if not extremely time-consuming) to grind to level 99 before you finish the first dungeon, but the developers clearly balanced the game in a such a way that the player would always be around the same level as the enemies in the current dungeon, assuming they didn't overgrind. Just check any let's play.
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That's a game mechanic bro
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I don't know what to tell you anymore, lest I repeat myself. You're entitled to your own opinion, but I'm not going to continue this discussion if you won't elaborate on your arguments. I've explained how levels aren't strictly game mechanics, and you seem to be grasping at straws for counterarguments, so I'm simply going to wait for outside input.
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Bump.
I should also note that the majority of Beelzebub's fusion components (Pazuzu, Seth, Belphegor, Belial, Mot, and Baal Zebul) are impossible to be fused and summoned by Yu until he has reached the late mid-game up to the late-game, and only appear naturally in Shuffle Time during late-game dungeons. The reason I brought this to light is because we already incorporate this type of reasoning into our profiles already. Joker doesn't gain access to BDE until his False Endgame key due to the fact he cannot summon Parvati until Shido's palace. In a similar vein, skills such as Sword Dance, Agneyastra, Riot Gun, and Vorpal Blade as restricted to his Mid to Late-game key because, assuming one's playing the way the developers intended, he wouldn't have access to such skills until that point in the game.
I should also note that the majority of Beelzebub's fusion components (Pazuzu, Seth, Belphegor, Belial, Mot, and Baal Zebul) are impossible to be fused and summoned by Yu until he has reached the late mid-game up to the late-game, and only appear naturally in Shuffle Time during late-game dungeons. The reason I brought this to light is because we already incorporate this type of reasoning into our profiles already. Joker doesn't gain access to BDE until his False Endgame key due to the fact he cannot summon Parvati until Shido's palace. In a similar vein, skills such as Sword Dance, Agneyastra, Riot Gun, and Vorpal Blade as restricted to his Mid to Late-game key because, assuming one's playing the way the developers intended, he wouldn't have access to such skills until that point in the game.
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Bimp
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Bump.
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It's moreso a technique.
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But what power would that be
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I'm not planning to.
This is the equivalent of asking what power throwing a left hook would be.
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So it’d probably be martial arts then
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No its just using a sword
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Swordmanship
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Martial Arts and Swordsmanship make sense to me, given how Yoshitsune was a legendary samurai.
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The verse is literally dead since milly's main account is inactive
I know you're a milly alt, get back on your main account
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You realize there are more MegaTen supporters than just Milly, yeah?
???
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Name all of them
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Quit derailing.
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You’re not the sharpest tool in the shed if you think I need an alt for a verse I already support.
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I agree with everything but Yoshitsune, Shadow Naoto 1-A scaling, Existence Erasure, and kinda on the fence on the sp weakness
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Me or Woesal
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Do you think the stuff that has been accepted can be added? Almost no staff member here scales SMT, except Ultima who is too busy
TheKingStrategist13
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Dude, it's a bit unprofessional to baselessly accuse someone of being a alt.
SP is definitely more so a game mechanic to symbolize Stamina. When your Party Members run out of SP in Persona 5 and you talk to Party Members in Safe Rooms via the table, they will state things along the lines of "I'm running out of Energy" or "I'm starting to get tired", implying that SP really is just their general stamina, measured via a game mechanic. SP draining skills seem more like skills that drain the opponents Stamina/Mental Fortitude or something to that effect.
And well... Luke basically already heavily fought the idea of 1-A Shadow Naoto. The Anime, while we do use it as a source, should not take presedence over the Game's, in which the developer's intent was for the Persona in question to come a significant time after the Sagiri and Adachi fights. Being able to grind and fuse it prematurely is just a aspect of the Leveling game mechanic being abused.
I don't have many other opinions here of great consequence, though Ren using a Curse skill to Erase the Curse Immune Loki is... Well, questionable.
SP is definitely more so a game mechanic to symbolize Stamina. When your Party Members run out of SP in Persona 5 and you talk to Party Members in Safe Rooms via the table, they will state things along the lines of "I'm running out of Energy" or "I'm starting to get tired", implying that SP really is just their general stamina, measured via a game mechanic. SP draining skills seem more like skills that drain the opponents Stamina/Mental Fortitude or something to that effect.
And well... Luke basically already heavily fought the idea of 1-A Shadow Naoto. The Anime, while we do use it as a source, should not take presedence over the Game's, in which the developer's intent was for the Persona in question to come a significant time after the Sagiri and Adachi fights. Being able to grind and fuse it prematurely is just a aspect of the Leveling game mechanic being abused.
I don't have many other opinions here of great consequence, though Ren using a Curse skill to Erase the Curse Immune Loki is... Well, questionable.
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I don't think we need staff input necessarily, but I'd wait for more knowledgeable users.
TheKingStrategist13
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Yeah, there might be more people who have their 2 cents to chime in on the SMT side.
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It could take some time because of a big upcoming CRT for Megami Tensei.
I think the general consensus seems to give the green light
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I cancelled out the stuff that was disagreed on
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I'm fine with adding the agreed-upon proposals.
