Scratch Vs The Snatcher (Grace)

[DimeUhDozen]

we've never seen Scratch put multiple curses onto someone before why do we assume he could do it infinitely,

We have, actually. He's put the "yes/no" curse on Molly while his original one was still in effect.

His transmutation requires Snatcher to be touched when he's constantly TP'ing

Reaction speed, remember? And Scratch can TP too. I see no reason why he wouldn't eventually just touch him mid-spam.

and using attacks that don't harm him just to keep him back like summoning dwellers to deal with him

Portal.

, make everything dark on Scratch

The Ghost Realm is already a dark and gloomy place, I don't see any reason why this would confuse him.

, create thorny plants to block him off,

He's possessed plants before.

use his Reality Warping and Spatial Manipulation to constantly mess him up just as hard

Scratch's Toon Force just allows him to pop reality warping stuff like a balloon. (0:26)

and again i'm assuming Snatcher just doesn't resort to Hax after not being able to reliably hit Scratch and scrapping him doesn't really count when Hat Kid has been hit full blown by those attacks and nothing stops Snatcher from shutting Scratch up mid curse by pain haxing him.

Curse Manip can restrict his ability to harm him.

I'm voting Incon at least, Scratch either curses Snatcher but doesn't have an actual reliable way of putting him down or Snatcher pain haxes Scratch to shut him up before the curse is out.

The curse can last indefinitely. Scratch said one of his curses can last "till the end of your days".

 

[Bruhtelho]

so then how does Snatcher realistically win, he cannot hit Scratch in anyway cause of the speed difference (Relativistic+ reaction speed says a no to everything Snatcher throws out), Hax is pointless cause Scratch shuts it off including anyway of harming him. I'm not seeing a Snatcher Win-Con i'll be honest, if Snatcher quite literally never gets the chance to use em cause they're only a last resort thing that he'll never see useful here based on what you are saying.

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

so then how does Snatcher realistically win, he cannot hit Scratch in anyway cause of the speed difference (Relativistic+ reaction speed says a no to everything Snatcher throws out), Hax is pointless cause Scratch shuts it off including anyway of harming him. I'm not seeing a Snatcher Win-Con i'll be honest, if Snatcher quite literally never gets the chance to use em cause they're only a last resort thing that he'll never see useful here based on what you are saying.

Like I wrote, there's always the chance of the Scratcher using an effective ability before Scratch opts for a curse instead of normal attacks. I think the battle could go either way, so that's why I think it's best to vote this matchup as inconclusive.

 

[Bruhtelho]

Like I wrote, there's always the chance of the Scratcher using an effective ability before Scratch opts for a curse instead of normal attacks. I think the battle could go either way, so that's why I think it's best to vote this matchup as inconclusive.

according to MaidRips, Snatcher wouldn't use an ability that means anything to Scratch cause he'll play it out like an actual battle never being able to hit him cause of the speed diff, leaving more then enough time for Scratch to shut everything off Snatcher can do before his Hax ever becomes an actual factor giving Snatcher practically no win-con.

 

[DimeUhDozen]

so then how does Snatcher realistically win, he cannot hit Scratch in anyway cause of the speed difference (Relativistic+ reaction speed says a no to everything Snatcher throws out), Hax is pointless cause Scratch shuts it off including anyway of harming him. I'm not seeing a Snatcher Win-Con i'll be honest, if Snatcher quite literally never gets the chance to use em cause they're only a last resort thing that he'll never see useful here based on what you are saying.

He has a way to win, as you said. He's just not as likely to use them as Scratch would his.

 

[Bruhtelho]

He has a way to win, as you said. He's just not as likely to use them as Scratch would his.

he literally doesn't given what you said, he'll play it out like a battle leaving more then enough time for Scratch to Curse before Hax even becomes a factor. its a last resort thing that Last Resort is not happening cause Scratch shuts it off way before it becomes relevant.

 

[DimeUhDozen]

he literally doesn't given what you said, he'll play it out like a battle leaving more then enough time for Scratch to Curse before Hax even becomes a factor.

There's a difference between a stomp, having no ways to win at all (we've established that he can with pain hax), and just not being as likely to use it to due to battle tactics. I wouldn't say this is a stomp. It's legitimate since both sides have wincons. It's just that one is more likely to use them than the other in this setting.

 

[Bruhtelho]

There's a difference between a stomp, having no ways to win at all (we've established that he can with pain hax), and just not being as likely to use it to due to battle tactics. I wouldn't say this is a stomp. It's legitimate since both sides have wincons. It's just that one is more likely to use them than the other in this setting.

you said that Pain Hax wouldn't happen cause Scratch would shut his abilities to harm him off like quite literally Pain Hax isn't happening cause the Curse thing happens WAYYYYYYYYYYYY before Snatcher would think of Pain Haxing leaving Snatcher without anything to do besides get his ass handed to him.

 

[DimeUhDozen]

you said that Pain Hax wouldn't happen cause Scratch would shut his abilities to harm him off like quite literally Pain Hax isn't happening cause the Curse thing happens WAYYYYYYYYYYYY before Snatcher would think of Pain Haxing leaving Snatcher without anything to do besides get his ass handed to him.

It's possible that the Snatcher could use pain hax before Scratch can cast the curse, you said so yourself. It's just not as likely because of battle tactics. He has the means, but in an actual fight, it would be less likely for it to play out that way.

 

[Bruhtelho]

It's possible that the Snatcher could use pain hax before Scratch can cast the curse, you said so yourself. It's just not as likely because of battle tactics. He has the means, but in an actual fight, it would be less likely for it to play out that way.

yah and Snatcher would think to use pain hax when hes shown to only use it when hes deemed something as cheating, Scratch speaking something leaves Snatcher no indication that hes cursing him nor does it tell him to Pain Hax, he'll use his battle tactics and get cursed during that leaving him with practically nothing.

 

[DimeUhDozen]

yah and Snatcher would think to use pain hax when hes shown to use it when hes deemed something as cheating, Scratch speaking something leaves Snatcher no indication that hes cursing him nor does it tell him to Pain Hax, he'll use his battle tactics and get cursed during that leaving him with practically nothing.

And that's a wincon. According to the stomp thread section for a decisive/non-stomp thread...

Common Examples of a Decisive/Non-Stomp Match​

• Both characters have several methods of winning, including options that allow them to win instantly. However, one character can reliably use/activate their winning move(s) first.

That sounds like Scratch's situation right now.

 

[Bruhtelho]

And that's a wincon. According to the stomp thread section for a decisive/non-stomp thread...

but it isn't cause Snatcher quite literally cannot use it due to the curse, Snacther would try Pain haxing AFTER Scratch says a curse cause he'd see his attacks do nothing to him but it wouldn't matter cause the curse would already be in affect.

 

[DimeUhDozen]

but it isn't cause Snatcher quite literally cannot use it due to the curse.

He possibly can before Scratch is able to. But Scratch can more reliably use his curse first. Reliable is the key word here. We've established that he is more reliably able to curse Snatcher before he can use his pain hax. Thus, it falls under the category of a non-stomp.

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

according to MaidRips, Snatcher wouldn't use an ability that means anything to Scratch cause he'll play it out like an actual battle never being able to hit him cause of the speed diff, leaving more then enough time for Scratch to shut everything off Snatcher can do before his Hax ever becomes an actual factor giving Snatcher practically no win-con.

I guess you're right, and I'm leaning more towards Scratch winning instead of thinking that the matchup is extremely ambiguous. There is a difference between a stomp matchup and a matchup with a very foreseeable result though. The Snatcher is very clever so it's not like he's too clueless in combat to think of using abilities disconnected from his body once he would realize that Scratch's dodging speed is too fast for him. One of those abilities is pain manipulation.

 

[Bruhtelho]

He possibly can before Scratch is able to. But Scratch can more reliably use his curse first. Reliable is the key word here. We've established that he is more reliably able to curse Snatcher before he can use his pain hax. Thus, it falls under the category of a non-stomp.

but he can't? thats what i've been saying now cause Snatcher would deem Scratch as cheating post curse not during him saying cause his usual battle strategies say otherwise leaving Scratch with numerous occasions before Snatcher would realistically think of pain haxing now.

 

[Dragonite007]

Why a supersonic ghost is fighting against a relativistic+ ghost?

 

[DimeUhDozen]

once he realizes that Scratch's dodging speed is too fast for him. One of those abilities is pain manipulation.

Hat Kid can dodge attacks at comparable speeds, it's just that Scratch can react to it faster. If he didn't use it then, I don't think he'd resort to it now.

Why a supersonic ghost is fighting against a relativistic+ ghost?

Relativistic+ only applies to reaction speed and Snatcher has hax that can be activate without needing to be hit by things.

 

[Bruhtelho]

Why a supersonic ghost is fighting against a relativistic+ ghost?

cause apparently its still fair, yknow when Snatcher can't even hit him, Scratch's actual speed may be Supersonic but his reactions are relativistic+ so he'd just react to literally every attack cause Snatcher indicates them.

 

[Bruhtelho]

Relativistic+ only applies to reaction speed and Snatcher has hax that can be activate without needing to be hit by things.

and that reaction speed means Snatcher ain't hitting him anytime soon showing no indication that Snatcher would need to use Pain hax.

 

[Dragonite007]

cause apparently its still fair, yknow when Snatcher can't even hit him, Scratch's actual speed may be Supersonic but his reactions are relativistic+ so he'd just react to literally every attack cause Snatcher indicates them.

This is literally not fair, Snatcher Will look like a statue for The other ghost

 

[DimeUhDozen]

This is literally not fair, Snatcher Will look like a statue for The other ghost

If speed is equalized, then it's mostly the same result because of reaction-speed rules in vs threads.

 

[Dragonite007]

If speed is equalized, then it's mostly the same result because of reaction-speed rules in vs threads.

So, this is just a stomp, because Snatcher Will be a statue to The another ghost

 

[Bruhtelho]

So, this is just a stomp, because Snatcher Will be a statue to The another ghost

Snatcher cannot hit Scratch, literally no indication for him to hax cause its only a last resort, gets cursed and cannot do anything.

 

[DimeUhDozen]

So, this is just a stomp, because Snatcher Will be a statue to The another ghost

No...? There've been examples of characters winning against characters with higher reaction speeds, and he would still have to move at the same speeds as Snatcher. His hax also doesn't require him to cover any distance.

Snatcher cannot hit Scratch, literally no indication for him to hax cause its only a last resort, gets cursed and cannot do anything.

You've already established his wincons earlier in the thread. And I've already established the qualifications of a non-stomp thread.

Snatcher has the ability to pain hax Scratch until he breaks. That is a wincon.

Snatcher can not reliably activate this first before Scratch can curse him. That leads to his loss.

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

So, this is just a stomp, because Snatcher Will be a statue to The another ghost

Reaction speed doesn't necessarily mean perception speed in that way.

 

[Bruhtelho]

if a stomp gets added then whatever. unwatching the thread now

 

[DimeUhDozen]

Sounds like Scratch wins this then.

 

[Bruhtelho]

You've already established his wincons earlier in the thread. And I've already established the qualifications of a non-stomp thread.

yah that was when I thought he could yknow use it.

Snatcher has the ability to pain hax Scratch until he breaks. That is a wincon.

Snatcher can not reliably activate this first before Scratch can curse him. That leads to his loss.

Snatcher is quite literally not going to pain hax cause of his usual battle tactics well Scratch has shown to activate Curse manip whenever he feels like it so Scratch gets threatened by Snatchers first attack and then shuts off the rest before Snatcher gets a realistic chance to do anything haxy related.

 

[Bruhtelho]

Sounds like Scratch wins this then.

its a stomp but go off ig.

 

[DimeUhDozen]

yah that was when I thought he could yknow use it.

Snatcher is quite literally not going to pain hax cause of his usual battle tactics well Scratch has shown to activate Curse manip whenever he feels like it so Scratch gets threatened by Snatchers first attack and then shuts off the rest before Snatcher gets a realistic chance to do anything haxy related.

That is... the very definition of a non-stomp thread according to the Stomp Thread page.

its a stomp but go off ig.

I thought you were unfollowing this?

 

[DaReaperMan]

I would note Snatcher scales significantly above his value in durability...

But he literally DOES NOT use hax in-character for combat.

Not even Ultra Snatcher uses haxier options in-character

Scratch also has a ludicrous Reactions and projectile speed advantage, so even if he didn't use hax he'd still beat Snatcher via just dodge-goding every single one of his attacks and punishing him with projectiles

But since Snatcher's first attack can pressure Scratch, he doesn't get a chance to do anything beyond applying his AP which DOESN'T upscale from his value, and as such doesn't do much

That is... the very definition of a non-stomp thread according to the Stomp Thread page.

It's like saying Lord Death doesn't get stomped by someone because Madness of Order exists, even though he would never use it. In that same vein, Snatcher doesn't use pain hax in-character for combat in any combat scenario(Ya know, it would've helped if he just insta-gibbed or pain haxed Mustache Girl with a thought, yeah?), you'd need to bloodlust him for that, which, honestly, might be the best course of action

 

[DimeUhDozen]

Scratch also has a ludicrous Reactions and projectile speed advantage, so even if he didn't use hax he'd still beat Snatcher via just dodge-goding every single one of his attacks and punishing him with projectiles

Nothing that Scratch doesn't usually use a lot of projectiles in character. Would only apply to things around the arena that he would be able to pick up, which I don't see Scratch leading with.

It's like saying Lord Death doesn't get stomped by someone because Madness of Order exists, even though he would never use it. In that same vein, Snatcher doesn't use pain hax in-character for combat in any combat scenario(Ya know, it would've helped if he just insta-gibbed or pain haxed Mustache Girl with a thought, yeah?), you'd need to bloodlust him for that, which, honestly, might be the best course of action

Earlier in the thread, Snatcher was argued to use hax once he realized his attacks weren't working on Scratch and got angry as a result, unless that's not right? In the same vein, I don't think Scratch would go for his own hax right away. Eventually, they would both come to the same conclusion. That hax is the only answer to finish this off. I just feel as if Scratch would use it a little earlier. Hypothetically speaking though, what would happen if speed was equalized and the reaction speed was just as it was according to versus thread rules? Would it be a little more fairer?

 

[DaReaperMan]

Nothing that Scratch doesn't usually use a lot of projectiles in character. Would only apply to things around the arena that he would be able to pick up, which I don't see Scratch leading with.

Earlier in the thread, Snatcher was argued to use hax once he realized his attacks weren't working on Scratch and got angry as a result, unless that's not right? In the same vein, I don't think Scratch would go for his own hax right away. Eventually, they would both come to the same conclusion. That hax is the only answer to finish this off. I just feel as if Scratch would use it a little earlier. Hypothetically speaking though, what would happen if speed was equalized and the reaction speed was just as it was according to versus thread rules? Would it be a little more fairer?

That makes a little sense then

In the second phase of his fight Snatcher was audibly pissed, not even annoyed, but pissed, even proclaiming "That does it, TIME TO DIE!"(Even in a different tone from his usual yelling) And yet he STILL never haxed Hat Kid, he added turning the area black and using a duplicate to trick, as well as teleport spamming, but that was it. Scratch would 100% of the time hax first becuase Snatcher just doesn't do hax in combat.

And, assuming Scratch even has the combat speed advantage so Snatcher isn't the one being equalized, it'd hardly touch his reactions.

"The combat speed of that faster character is assumed to be equalized to the combat speed of the slower character. Every other speed the faster character has is reduced by the same multiplier. This includes the speed of any attacks, projectiles, reactions, perception, flight etc." ~ Versus Thread Rules

so he'd still retain an insane reactions advantage either way, cause Supersonic to Relativistic+ is an insane difference. That's beyond statueing the opponent.

 

[DimeUhDozen]

That makes a little sense then

In the second phase of his fight Snatcher was audibly pissed, not even annoyed, but pissed, even proclaiming "That does it, TIME TO DIE!"(Even in a different tone from his usual yelling) And yet he STILL never haxed Hat Kid, he added turning the area black and using a duplicate to trick, as well as teleport spamming, but that was it. Scratch would 100% of the time hax first becuase Snatcher just doesn't do hax in combat.

And, assuming Scratch even has the combat speed advantage so Snatcher isn't the one being equalized, it'd hardly touch his reactions.

"The combat speed of that faster character is assumed to be equalized to the combat speed of the slower character. Every other speed the faster character has is reduced by the same multiplier. This includes the speed of any attacks, projectiles, reactions, perception, flight etc." ~ Versus Thread Rules

so he'd still retain an insane reactions advantage either way, cause Supersonic to Relativistic+ is an insane difference. That's beyond statueing the opponent.

What would bloodlusting do in this situation then?

 

[DaReaperMan]

What would bloodlusting do in this situation then?

Basically getting him to use his hax faster, BFR and Death hax obviously don't work, but Body Puppetry(Wouldn't land, for obvious reasons) and Pain hax do, he'd likely open with Death hax, have that not work, then go for pain hax, and depending on how Scratch reacts to pain, things could get nasty for both extremely quickly.

 

[DimeUhDozen]

Basically getting him to use his hax faster, BFR and Death hax obviously don't work, but Body Puppetry(Wouldn't land, for obvious reasons) and Pain hax do, he'd likely open with Death hax, have that not work, then go for pain hax, and depending on how Scratch reacts to pain, things could get nasty for both extremely quickly.

I see. If this bloodlusts them both then, I think that Scratch with his knowledge of the things that would and wouldn't work on a ghost in his world, which just so happen to not work on Snatcher as well, would get to activate his curse manipulation faster, but it would be very close.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I see. If this bloodlust them both then, I think that Scratch with his knowledge of the things that would and wouldn't work on a ghost in his world, which just so happen to not work on Snatcher as well, would get to activate his curse manipulation faster, but it would be very close.

That's definitely the right way to go then, might just be me personally, but I prefer matches that are as close as possible without being incons

 

[DimeUhDozen]

That's definitely the right way to go then, might just be me personally, but I prefer matches that are as close as possible without being incons

This was definitely an interesting matchup. Will you be voting?

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

This was definitely an interesting matchup. Will you be voting?

If the Snatcher is now actually likely to use his pain manipulation with the conditions set, then I'll vote for Scratch to win because of what you wrote in the following quote.

I see. If this bloodlusts them both then, I think that Scratch with his knowledge of the things that would and wouldn't work on a ghost in his world, which just so happen to not work on Snatcher as well, would get to activate his curse manipulation faster, but it would be very close.

To elaborate, the Snatcher tricked Hat Girl into thinking that he was defeated, so in the case that he's bloodlusted then this could potentially be a very devious tactic when Scratch doesn't know exactly what curse effects would and wouldn't work on him. However, excluding abilities the two have that don't work on each other, Scratch seems to use his abilities more effectively than the Snatcher does.

 

[DimeUhDozen]

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