Scp cosmology/questions

[manu_zarri]

idk why you believe that he can instantly jump to the top.

if it were not so it would not have its 1-A+ being that you cannot, let's say, travel in bigger narratives one by one if it is infinite (at least logically)

 

[manu_zarri]

if it were not so it would not have its 1-A+ being that you cannot, let's say, travel in bigger narratives one by one if it is infinite (at least logically)

I realized that I expressed myself very badly, essentially what I mean is that I find it hard to believe that 3812 could not "skip" narratives to reach a specific one

 

[Agnaa]

if it were not so it would not have its 1-A+ being that you cannot, let's say, travel in bigger narratives one by one if it is infinite (at least logically)

We don't know how he'll do it. Maybe it'd take infinite time. We just have the statement that eventually he'll reach that point, so we include it as an end.

I realized that I expressed myself very badly, essentially what I mean is that I find it hard to believe that 3812 could not "skip" narratives to reach a specific one

We could also give a fairly logical explanation that doesn't involve skipping narratives. Like, jumping up narratives takes 0 time, so 3812 would still need to go through each narrative, but to an outside observer this could happen instantly. This would also still limit 3812 to not being able to go above the hierarchy in a way that matters for our system.

 

[ThePirateKing777]

Agnaa​

Didn’t we talked before about how it took 3812 A long time to supersede one narrative? (forgot how many years it took.)

 

[Agnaa]

Yeah from the article itself it seems like it took him 20 years to supersede one narrative. However, there's also a statement from the author that he transcends instantly. We could prioritize the source material and dismiss the WoG. We could say that, because beings from higher-narratives see time in lower-narratives as static, something could take time from the perspective of two characters in the same narrative, while being instantaneous from the perspective of a character in a higher narrative.

And, like I said in that post, transcendence being instant isn't the only explanation. We could also say that it would take 3812 infinite time to reach the top, but that that could eventually happen somehow.

Hell, we could argue that 3812's 1-A+ end isn't legitimate. 3812's comment of there being infinite narratives was from 3812 looking down and seeing infinite narratives. Maybe the upwards extension is only finite.

 

[manu_zarri]

Shouldn't we give 3812 another key before it transcends the foundation narrative?

anyway i think we are doing too much assumptions, he will just reach that point, somehow.

 

[Agnaa]

I don't think we have good enough info on before it transcends the foundation narrative. Because at the point we get most of the statements about it, it seems like it's transcended the foundation narrative but not Ben's yet, since they talk about it already being in a higher reality and unlike other reality warpers/gods they've seen. It's really hard to tell.

 

[Darksmash]

Yeah from the article itself it seems like it took him 20 years to supersede one narrative.

Wait where exactly is this implied?

 

[Agnaa]

Wait where exactly is this implied?

Sorry, when talking to a friend about it recently they gave me the 20 years number. Looking back on the article it still seems to be on the order of years:

SCP-3812: This is going to sound crazy, seriously, but I can- I can see what you're thinking. I know you're afraid. You're scared of what I might do, and here in a minute, you'll… I don't know how to get it out of my head, how to start to undo this, if I even can. I don't even think he can.


Dr. Quint: Who is he?


SCP-3812: You… no, you can't see him. I can. I think he was above us at one point, but he's below me now. Yes, I see you there. I don't know what you did to me, but I'm pretty messed up, man. If you can figure something out here that would be great, because I really feel like I'm losing it. I'm scared too, man. You've got to do something, man. You've got to help me out here. Please, god, please.

This interview occurred 3 years after 3812 gained his abilities.

The "he" being referred to here is Ben, the author of 3812.

The timing is all pretty vague, but 3812 got above Ben in less than 3 years, and above whoever was above Ben some unknown time later. 3812's mental state gradually declined over 20 years.

 

[Darksmash]

The timing is all pretty vague, but 3812 got above Ben in less than 3 years

Ehh, I don't think we can say that it definitely took him that long to ascend. Since when he says "I think he was above us at one point" he could also just be referring to the time when he was still human. Also with how they say they couldn't get a hume reading on 3812 it seems like it had always been like that.

Though honestly overall it's pretty hard to gauge how 3812's transcendence relates to time since it appears that each Narrative transcends the time of the lower Narratives, so using the time passage in the first Narrative as the measuring stick will probably cause some problems

 

[Agnaa]

Ehh, I don't think we can say that it definitely took him that long to ascend. Since when he says "I think he was above us at one point" he could also just be referring to the time when he was still human.

Yeah I don't think it's definite, but I think it pushes the timescale away from literally instant.

Also with how they say they couldn't get a hume reading on 3812 it seems like it had always been like that.

The report that mentions 3812 not having a Hume value was written in 2015, and references checking 3812 over the past few months. 3812 gained his powers in 1996. And hell, the Foundation only found 3812 after he blew up a factory. You can't definitely say he never had a Hume reading.

Though honestly overall it's pretty hard to gauge how 3812's transcendence relates to time since it appears that each Narrative transcends the time of the lower Narratives, so using the time passage in the first Narrative as the measuring stick will probably cause some problems

100% agree.

 

[Darksmash]

The report that mentions 3812 not having a Hume value was written in 2015, and references checking 3812 over the past few months. 3812 gained his powers in 1996. And hell, the Foundation only found 3812 after he blew up a factory. You can't definitely say he never had a Hume reading.

Well they do reference only the last few months, but I doubt they didn't try to test 3812 on Humes in the 20 years he was with them. Unless they didn't have the technology back then. Though staying on topic the article also talks about his schizophrenia and it appears that it had been there when they first found him too, just gotten worse with time

 

[Agnaa]

Yeah my interpretation of that was that they didn't always have Hume-detection technology, and that after it was developed 3812 wasn't the first thing they tested it on.