Scaling Issues concerning Child FR .

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Like i promised, this IS NOT a revision thread, but while continuously updating the Respect Thread, i have come across "Issues" that need to be discussed. I was going to wait , but i knew it would be quite a while until it was discussed for the massive revisions, and knew i would forget. Keep in mind this IS NOT asking for an upgrade, just asking for opinions. SO... Here it is .

- Remember how Kubik said how far weaker Cosmic Cubes are in comparison to Celestials, who viewed FR as a peer and a threat, despite not viewing the IG, UN , and anything else as a thread ?It's pretty consistent . Uhmm... Well... Here are a few things you may or may not want to be aware of . Spiderman , Wolverine , and Doctor Doom had Post-Retcon Beyonders powers for a set amount of time ( one billionth of a second ) . With said powers in a billionth of a second, they re-created ALL of creation each time ( basically 3x in one billionth of a second, 2x at least due to Dr.Doom and Spiderman speaking of the instance simultaneously, confirming both did it once each ) , which justifies for far higher than his current tiers of 2-C & 2-A .

- Spiderman (W/Post-Retcon Beyonder's powers) one-shotted Galactus , where in this exact same story he was dimensionless and without any type of boundaries . They more than likely did this to hype up Galactus... But... Dear God... What type of crap is this ? Is this a joke ?

- Wolverine referred to the influence of the M'krann Crystal ( Nexus of All Realities ) as being one with all creation , not just an infinite number of universe . In my blog, i have scans for Franklin manipulated a Nexus of All Realities subconsciously into a cartoonish version of itself. Jeez Franklin...

-Post-Retcon Beyonder was said to be far weaker than Multi-Eternity . Even though these powers are great and all , his powers were still retconned, no one can prove otherwise in this instance, and even still referred to him as a Mutant and Inhuman in the guidebooks during this series . Multi-Eternity was really hurt by Child Franklin's attack . He did that with no amps of any kind . This would mean that not only Eternity scales to this Post-Retcon Beyonder, but also Child Franklin .

Can anyone please either explain this or give any type of feedback on this ludicrous findings ? This is crazy on a whole different level.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Bump.

 

[Skytheblue]

All of this just seems like 2-A, no?

And if Galactus really has no dimensions, shouldn't he be 1-A? But it's probably a hyperbole.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

All of creation isn't just a Multiverse, its the hypothetical whole of creation, which is infinite dimensional in nature. We treat all of creation in DC as High 1-B. I fail to see how it isn't applicable to this. It varies a lot between both 2-A & High 1-B.

For 1-A... Iffy to Outlier at best.

 

[Skytheblue]

Well some people were already agreeing with High 1-B Franklin before this thread. This thread just justifies it even more. And 1-A Galactus would be a massive contradiction I believe, so there's no way that's true. It's been quite some time since the Franklin Richards revision thread, maybe someone should reopen it and you could bring up these points. It would be awesome to have Franklin at High 1-B or something haha.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

I know most people were. Only 2 i know offhand disagree, and even then they were uncertain with their decision. 1-A Galactus IS inconsistent, at least for just Galactus that is. Him effortlessly beating that vesion of Galactus supports Pre-Retcon Beyonder's statements of being beyond time and space, but that's really it . I will check with Ant afer maybe a few minutes.

So here is what we have so far . Here we go . Child FR effortlessly re-created all of creation ( 2-A to High 1-B ) into a cartoonish version of itself via the Nexus of All Realities, which was said by wolverine to connect to everything in all of creation . Child FR was able to heavily damage Multi-Eternity , a consistently inconsistent 2-A or HIgh 1-B Cosmic Entity, who was stated as far superior to Post-Retcon Beyonder . Is viewed by Celestials to be a powerful threat, even when IG , UN , Sol's Anvil ( Killed an Post-Retcon Beyonder, which has a High 1-B feat ) were treated as fodder and no where close to a threat in comparison. Said weapons have been shown to be far above Multi-Eternity and most Multi-Abstracts.

 

[Skytheblue]

Well due to how bad Marvel is with powerscaling, I don't know how seriously all of this will be taken. "All of creation" can still only be referring to infinite universes, no? But it is also entirely possible that it is referring to the entire infinite dimensional multiverse.

Is there any way we can find out whether Franklin's feats are High 1-B or just 2-A? Since Multi Eternity can be 2-A and also High 1-B. And we don't know for sure whether or not "All of creation" is 2-A or High 1-B.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

[Smiles] I told Ant the exact same thing. It's why I wanted the cosmic abstracts , and the items and people that scale to it,be rated as " 2-A or High 1-B " due to this inconsistency. Just some would obviously be on a higher level than others in their respectable tiers.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Galactus is either 2-A or High 1-B. Probably the former.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

I can agree with Matthew. I still hold my same opinions as before as Galactus could indeed be either 2-A or High 1-B. But 2-A is more consistent. That doesn't rule out High 1-B though.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

I understand that guys. That is why i am pushing for you guys to acknowledge both in the profile in the future, to acknoledge both sides.

Do we treat his Outerversal levels as an outlier ?

 

[Skytheblue]

What about Franklin?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

things to consider:

• The story where Spider-Man gains Beyonder's power isn't canon, I think.

• In regards to dimensionless Galactus, that isn't related to Spatial Dimensions and it is actually explained why in our Discussion Rules to avoid people from repeatedly bringing it up.

• Nexus is At least 2-A

Haven't read Abraxas.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

Do we treat his Outerversal levels as an outlier ?

Yes. Probably hyperbole as well. And what Matt said.


I am really against 1-A Galactus unless there is solid and in-universe evidence to greatly support it.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

- I never said i wanted it. In the blog i said it was unlikely and was one heck of a change , but i like mentioning everything, not holding back anything whatsoever.

- It's a retelling of Secret Wars, except it's Post-Retcon Beyonder. They even said it was him . So technically speaking, it should be canon, as it is the retconned Secret Wars .

- Hmm... I won't discuss it, but will keep it in the blog for reference for debates on other sites.

- Weren't there instances of Eternity being 1-A though ( You mentioned them in the past ) ? Not arguing for 1-A Cosmic Entities, just curious what reasoning you used back then.

- So.. " All of creation " isn't High 1-B at all ? When in DC, all of creation is referred by you guys and DC as High 1-B, due to existing in an infinite-dimensional reality .

- In the Abraxas comic Galactus preps to fight Abraxas. It was revealed Abraxas killed all other versions of Galactus sans 616. Abraxas stated he is the strongest version of Galactus he fought. He still lost, and Multi-Eternity wanted help. Franklin hurts Multi-Eternity when reserrecting Galactus when Abraxas killed him . Galactus when resurrected doesn't fear the Un even when Abraxas fought it. It's weird... We don't know if Franklin could've fought him, and even if he could, he wouldn't do it. He's a scared little kid with a lot of dormant power.

 

[Skytheblue]

Isn't Franklin a 3 dimensional being? How is he just born with higher dimensional powers?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Same reason why in JRPGs if you level up really hard you can fight the Higher-Dimensional creator of the multiverse. He just has that level of power.

 

[Skytheblue]

So what do you think Matt?

2-A or High 1-B for Franklin?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

2-A

 

[Skytheblue]

When are you going to do the changes?

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

WHY are you so adamant about choosing one instead of both Matt ?

 

[Skytheblue]

Why would be choose both? We can't put both 2-A and High 1-B in his profile.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

Well we are trying to look it both ways. There is evidence for both of these ratings sure but the more consistent one is "2-A".


A case could be made for "High 1-B" but im uncertain at the moment.

 

[Skytheblue]

What about "At least 2-A, possibly High 1-B"?

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

That would make sense..

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

GUYS. Remember the feat i showed you guys about Franklin hurting Multi-Eternity . Look at the face REAL carefully. Notice anything strange ? If you didn't, i'll tell you... Eternity and Infinity are in that image merged, which means they were one Super-Powerful Multi-Abstract when they were powerful. Keep also in mind Valeria was there. Valeria doesn't have that level of power... She can only limit Franklin's power... Yeah... Let it soak in how ridiculous such a feat is...

 

[Skytheblue]

C'mon guys, let's get this upgrade done already.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

This will more than likely be dealt with later. And we still haven't reached a conclusion.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

It will be Julian... But there is a lot more we need to discuss concerning how the Multi-Abstracts are viewed as. I hope it doesn't end until i bring in all of my stuff ... In fact, I may have found at least 8 showings that depict Multi-Abstract tiers as actually 1 tier higher than where they are at now . I feel like this IS the most important thing for a Marvel revision.

Guys... There is SO much more stuff to discuss about instances where Multi-Abstracts tiered entities gained beyond High 1-Power . And I am definitely not even talking about Secret Wars Galactus feat.. Hopefully I have enough. What we do from here I care but don't, because I remember being told the only reason we denied it is because nothing else similar happened... Well... Here are instances..! And if you ignore them... I don't know exactly what to say.. :

- Eternity's creation was called a Boundless Multiverse , which would definitely make the multiverse 1-A, because High 1-B is a boundary. This is definitely interesting, as Franklin was capable of destroying Everything by Roma , threat to ALL THAT EXISTS by Uatu , the Multiverse by source, and even the "Omniverse" at times. He would definitely scale to this .

- Galactus and Scrier threatening all of creation ( Multiverse ) with their blows, which was a threat to the multiverse, which like mentioned above, if it is considered a Boundless Multiverse, would be 1-A, yet he is afraid of Franklin's power.

- Franklin badly hurts Multi-Eternity and Multi-Infinity without meaning to, and awakens Galactus to a similar level to Multi-Eternity when vastly weakened ( Because like mentioned on my blog, Valeria has the subconscious ability of regulating Franklin's power to much lower levels, meaning what we saw here was NOTHING compared to what he could do if Valeria wasn't there ) . Obviously Franklin would scale even more due to this.... Because he badly hurt a Multi-Abstract fusion , each one of the fusionees embodying a Boundless Multiverse when vastly weakened... I am done...

- Franklin easily manipulated the totality of the Nexus of All Realities, which is equal to the M'krann Crystal, which was said by two sources to be not limited by time or space. Meaning Franklin manipulated a 1-A reality without even being actively aware of it. That's a high end feat . Eternity shouldn't be weaker than a Nexus, hence he should scale in his Multi-Abstract form.

- The Goblin Force ate the whole Phoenix Force in that comic, which destroyed the M'krann Crystal, which was said above to not be limited by time or space . Yet.... He was temporarily stalemated by Celestials who were compared to Franklin many times. It also wanted the Necxus of All Realities to remake all of creation, AKA: Boundless Multiverse.

- Like mentioned, since all of creation will be a Boundless Multiverse, Wolverine w/Nexus of All Realities would be 1-A due to the Boundless Multiverse feat, which means the Nexus would be, hence Franklin's feat of the Nexus just got a lot more....BUSTED.

- Beyonder and Molecule Man made a trans-multiversal wave ( which is 1-A if you take into account a Boundless Multiverse ) , yet is consistently regarded in that same comic as far weaker than Eternity and the Multi-Abstracts. Beyonder was able to remake creation with an afterthiugh, and all of creation would equal a Boundless Multiverse 3 times ! Yet Franklin has severely hurt a a fused Multi-Abstract ( which would multiply their potency by at least two times ) and amped someone to a Multi-Abstract level while vastly weakened. Dang Franklin...

- We have two instances of Eternity being equal to the Never Queen, someone who naturally existed beyond the influence of time or space. Why would they portray the two as completely equal, if one is clearly bound by time or space... Or maybe they were hinting at him being this powerful from the get go ...

- The Dimension of Manifestations was said at one point to be beyond all forms of reality ,transcend all for!s of reality and dream. This was said to be the Multi-Abstracts' realm by Beyonder. This makes it much more valid if one considers that the Multiverse is Boundless/1-A

- They step outside of all of the Multiverse to converse with each other.

- Dr.Doom with Beyonders' powers shunted Thanos outside of all time and space.

- Life Beringer Galactus is able to adventure outside of all time and space. He is comparable to Eternity.

- Someone during the Quasar fiasco, who had High 1-B levels of power with an amp. , couldn't comprehend the full nature of the Multi-Abstracts... Yeah it happened.


With all this is mind ( sans Dimension of Manifestations ) , I personally feel this may be possible. I feel as if just like what Sky said for a possible tier, This should be rated as " 2-A, possibly High 1-B or 1-A " due to these feats of strength for anything on the Multi-Abstracts tier . I thought only two instances was enough, but I wanted tho be good. Everything I said ( apart from Quasar ) is currently on my blog. Outerverse Level may be inconsistent, but so is Multiverse Level+ and High Hyperversal Level + . 1-A should be considered just as much as High 1-B for Multi-Abstracts. Thank you for your time.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Bump.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Bump. I'm being very genuine right now. I feel this is a legit 1-A scaling for Marvel Mutli-Abstracts, and SOME llead way for others in-verse.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Please stop trying to upgrade characters with giant multiple-paragraph posts which contain no scans.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Which scans do you need ?

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Please stop trying to upgrade characters with giant multiple-paragraph posts which contain no scans.

Uhmm...? For the record, ALL of my scans are on the blog... However for the sake of convenience and this upgrade .. I will edit this post to include every scan ( except those you should know about: like Molecule Man and Beyonder's Trans-Multiversal wave... Which if we use Boundless Multiverse, is a low end 1-A feat ) . And also for the record to explain scans to their maximum... I need to go into a lot of detail. Here they are :

- Boundless Multiverse scan for Multi-Eternity . High 1-B to me is a boundary of the dimensional variety , so 1-A would be a Boundless Multverse, but nothing higher obviously otherwise it is a NLF . From here, it gets actually pretty easy to scale

- Assuming the Multiverse is Boundless / 1-A ,Galactus and Scrier were threatening all of Creation in their fight , which is equal to the Boundless Multiverse . Another Outerversal moment. He was pretty well fed around this time.

- Post-Retcon Beyonder remade all of creation 3X in a billionth of a second , which literally means re-creating the Boundless Multiverse . Post-Retcon Beyonder is viewed as an ant compared to Eternity via Molecule Man's own words . Outerversal scaling.

-This next one you may recognize Matt. Eternity by himself being equal to Never Queen , who is said be beyond time and space of the Multiverse . Also said here . Seems legitimate to me. I don't know how it was debunked in the first place...

- According to Marvunapp ( The reason why i want to use it is because i find it to be the most reliable Marvel website , way more reliable than the Marvel wikia and Marvel website ) : The M'krann Crystal , a Nexus of All Realities , is said to ot limited by time or space , and apparently it is also stated on the Marvel wikia as well...except they said time an dspace has no meaning in it . I already showed a scan for Frankklin manipulating a Nexus of All Realities effortlessly in the last thread , if you need a reminder... Let me know and I'll post the scan that shows they are inside a Nexus, and prove it was him, NOT Man-Thing.

- Wolverine literally became one with all of creation , which is literally one with this Boundless Multiverse, meaning if you don't believe what Marvunapp said, through scaling, Nexus of All Realities is 1-A .

- Goblin Force defeated Phoenix Force easily , who which you referenced before re-created the M'krann Crystal from the inside-out without effort . Was however held back by the Celestials ( not even the Mad Celestials mind you ..) , who view Franklin as their equal consistently.

- Please ask if you want more.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

SO in General here is how Franklin would scale to Outerversal Levels : Child Franklin (when vastly weakened via Valeria ) is capable of harming Multi-Eternity and Multi-Infinty while they were fused , whom both separately areembodiments of an Boundless Multiverse , which would be 1-A basically . He also re-created Galactus & amped Galactus to Abraxas' level, shown when he is able to give him pain when Multi-Eternity and Multi-Infinity fused failed to do so. They are separately depicted as far above Post-Retcon Beyonder , who remade Creation 3X in a billionth of a second . The M'krann Crystal not only gave Wolverinethe ability to be one w/ all of creation (1-A due to it being a Boundless Multiverse), but in two sources was stated to not be limited by time or space . Franklin was not only stated to be able to effortlessly create the Nexus of All Realities,but was stated to be indirectly much stronger than the Nexus of All Realities/M'krann Crystal " The vast energies you were flowing through him he couldn't contai " . Man-Thing for reference can easily contain the power of the M'krann Crystal around inside him, so it wouldn't make sense for him to be overwhelmed by his OWN power. That seems pretty simple...Hehe no it isn't.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Oh man.

Can you please wait for me to explain all of this?

 

[ALRF]

>whom both separately areembodiments of an Boundless Multiverse , which would be 1-A basically

Don't see how this warrants a 1-A, Tier 1-A is for anything above the concept of dimensions, AKA dimensional structure (4-D,5-D...into infinite structure), Boundless by Multiverse...isn't a valuable statement for 1-A.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Thanks Matthew. Its fine. I'll be waiting...

Then what scale would you put it on then? Not being mad, just curious. It doesn't fit under any lower tier IMO.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Bump. Matthew... Consider me conceited if you can debunk the M'Krann Crystal and never Queen. They are arguably my most forward evidence for 1-A. We can debate about the Boundless Multiverse later.

 

[Skytheblue]

How does the term "Boundless Multiverse" equate to 1-A?