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The skeleton vs the fusion.
speed equalized
Who wins?
Sans
speed equalized
Who wins?
Sans
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Sans vs Malachite
- Thread starter The_real_cal_howard
- Start date
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sans do too karm retbushin
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but the equalized is hard but unequalized sans wins
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Karmic Retribution is soul damage right? Do Gems have a soul?
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i dont see why not and we dont know how karma retribution works just that it bypass drubiteyWeeklyBattles said:
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I'm not sure. Main reason I made this match. But if I had to make an educated guess, then no. They don't.
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I'm just going to get rid of the Unequalized match real quick.
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The real cal howard said:
why?
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Because it's a stomp match in hindsight. And seeing how I put the speedstomp rule into place, I would be a hypocrite.
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Yes. Now the real question is can she dodge the Gaster Basters with speed equalized?The real cal howard said:
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With speed equal probably, and Blue Mode would be completely ineffective against her
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Why? It is telekinesis.WeeklyBattles said:
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It's gravity manipulation. An ability often thought to be telekinesis.
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The real cal howard said:
how would you even know that?
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Because it's under his profile, plus someone says it in-game (though I don't remember who).
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The real cal howard said:
No one does as far as I know and it does not make sense in context to his boss battle when he is doing it too you nonstop.
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"When blue, the SOUL is in Jump Mode and affected by gravity, much like a side-scrolling/platformer perspective. This SOUL color is used by both Papyrus and Sans in battle and is the first time the protagonist's SOUL changes color. Sans appears to have much more control over this, being able to force gravity in all four directions rather than just straight down."
It's gravity manipulation, which would not affect a Gem like Malachite
It's gravity manipulation, which would not affect a Gem like Malachite
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where is that said in game? why would it not work on a gem?WeeklyBattles said:
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Its not said in game, its just the description given. It wouldn't work on a Gem because their bodies automaitcally adjust to changes in gravity
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But still ,all Sans needs to win are Gaster Basters and Karmic Retribution.
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if it is not in game then someone made it upWeeklyBattles said:
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Bnd just because there bodies adjust to gravity chang does not mean Blue Mode would not work Sans would still be able to throw her around.WeeklyBattles said:
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Blue Mode is not gravity manipulation. It is soul manipulation which acts like gravity manipulation.
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I always thought it was gravity manipulation that affects you down to the soullular level (it sounds like cellular level. I'll... leave now...)Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
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Souls in Undertale are not just spiritual components, they encompass everything you are. Your physical state as well as any energy states or whatever else makes you up are part of your SOUL. It's not the same as the soul that is more commonly referred to in most places.
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Gems are inorganic life forms, and in Undertale, souls are posessed by only organic life, Specifically, monsters and humans. Any life form or machine without a soul would need one manually given to them or taken from others, like Mettaton or Flowey. Given that Gems are inorganic, and basically just rocks with special powers, I would say that Gems don't possess a soul in either real-world terms or Undertale terms. I could be wrong, just my thoughts on the topic.
So, with Sans' abilities that affect the soul only and not the physical body such as Karmic Retribution and Blue Mode would not have any effect on Malachite. Based on this, I say Malachite wins.
So, with Sans' abilities that affect the soul only and not the physical body such as Karmic Retribution and Blue Mode would not have any effect on Malachite. Based on this, I say Malachite wins.
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Literally, Gems don't have an exploitable soul like the others and any non-higher dimensional gravity or if the gravity is not of an overwhelmingly great level cannot affect the Gems. That's not hyperbole. Even if they do have a soul, it wouldn't be the same type that Sans is familiar with and able to affect whatever he likes.
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Verse equalization.Dekoshu said:
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Verse equalization.
Wouldn't make a difference
Wouldn't make a difference
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Verse equalization.
Wouldn't make a difference
First off, I'm going to need some proof somewhere if you want to claim that a character doesn't have a soul, let alone a SOUL.
Second, we've already established that sans blue mode is soul manipulation, not gravity manipulation, so any point about resistance to gravity is moot. Even if ti was gravity manipulation, I don't see anything on malachite's profile about resistance to gravity.
Third if Malachite has a soul (judging from their page they may even have two souls) then that soul is subject to sans SOUL manipulation by means of verse equalization. That means that not only does bkue mode work on them, but san's attacks including KR all work as well.
Lastly, in undertale all attacks deal damage to the enemies SOUL, and it has been shown that even characters like Flower who claim to not have a SOUL are capable of taking damage and being killed by these attacks. Even if a character lacks a a spiritual 'soul', the SOUL in undertale encompasses all physical and mental aspects of a character as well, so you would still take physical and mental damage from being hit by a SOUL based attack from an undertale character even if you managed to a find an 'I don't have a soul' loophole. Undertale characters have fought and damaged entirely digital characters for example in other vs threads many times, you can't claim complete invulnerability on the basis of 'muh lack of a soul', especially if said lack of a soul isn't written anywhere on the profile.
Wouldn't make a difference
First off, I'm going to need some proof somewhere if you want to claim that a character doesn't have a soul, let alone a SOUL.
Second, we've already established that sans blue mode is soul manipulation, not gravity manipulation, so any point about resistance to gravity is moot. Even if ti was gravity manipulation, I don't see anything on malachite's profile about resistance to gravity.
Third if Malachite has a soul (judging from their page they may even have two souls) then that soul is subject to sans SOUL manipulation by means of verse equalization. That means that not only does bkue mode work on them, but san's attacks including KR all work as well.
Lastly, in undertale all attacks deal damage to the enemies SOUL, and it has been shown that even characters like Flower who claim to not have a SOUL are capable of taking damage and being killed by these attacks. Even if a character lacks a a spiritual 'soul', the SOUL in undertale encompasses all physical and mental aspects of a character as well, so you would still take physical and mental damage from being hit by a SOUL based attack from an undertale character even if you managed to a find an 'I don't have a soul' loophole. Undertale characters have fought and damaged entirely digital characters for example in other vs threads many times, you can't claim complete invulnerability on the basis of 'muh lack of a soul', especially if said lack of a soul isn't written anywhere on the profile.
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Gems are literally rocks given physical form, so unless you believe that a rock somehow possesses a soul...
"Even if it was gravity manipulation, I don't see anything on malachite's profile about resistance to gravity."
Taken right from her abilities section: Automatic-adjustment to different strengths of gravity
That's not how verse equalization works. You cannot use verse equalization to give something that lacks a soul a soul to make it susceptible to soul manipulation. And even if it DID, KR would have little to no effect since Malachite hasn't actually killed anyone.
"The SOUL in undertale encompasses all physical and mental aspects of a character as well"
That's how regular souls are in quite a few fictions, its not exclusive to Undertale, plus it's never stated it encompasses mental aspects.
"Undertale characters have fought and damaged entirely digital characters for example in other vs threads many times"
That's… not remotely good evidence since it isn't a canon work.
"Even if it was gravity manipulation, I don't see anything on malachite's profile about resistance to gravity."
Taken right from her abilities section: Automatic-adjustment to different strengths of gravity
That's not how verse equalization works. You cannot use verse equalization to give something that lacks a soul a soul to make it susceptible to soul manipulation. And even if it DID, KR would have little to no effect since Malachite hasn't actually killed anyone.
"The SOUL in undertale encompasses all physical and mental aspects of a character as well"
That's how regular souls are in quite a few fictions, its not exclusive to Undertale, plus it's never stated it encompasses mental aspects.
"Undertale characters have fought and damaged entirely digital characters for example in other vs threads many times"
That's… not remotely good evidence since it isn't a canon work.
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snip
The decisions on this wiki should be consistent. If a decision is made once that characters have SOULS unless specifically spec ified not to, then that decision should apply to all related fights on the wiki. It shouldn't be a case by case argument where whoever is more persistant and smooth talking on a given thread gets to determine how the rules apply in a similar but slightly different case. If for example it's decided that Beerus can absorb Supermans eye beams in one thread that is approved by admins and added to profiles, there shouldn't need to be another arguement in another thread about if Beerus can absorb the eye lasers of some other kryptonian like Supergirl or something.
The decisions on this wiki should be consistent. If a decision is made once that characters have SOULS unless specifically spec ified not to, then that decision should apply to all related fights on the wiki. It shouldn't be a case by case argument where whoever is more persistant and smooth talking on a given thread gets to determine how the rules apply in a similar but slightly different case. If for example it's decided that Beerus can absorb Supermans eye beams in one thread that is approved by admins and added to profiles, there shouldn't need to be another arguement in another thread about if Beerus can absorb the eye lasers of some other kryptonian like Supergirl or something.
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Doesn't change the fact that Malachite doesn't have a soul...
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Where exactly does your insistance that Malachite doesn't have a soul come from, aside from 'something something come on guys its a rock'. Is there an author statement, or some canon event, dialog, or description that reliably tells us this? Or is this some sort of religious argument?WeeklyBattles said:
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Gems are canonically regarded as inorganic, and as far as im aware all religious beliefs only attribute souls to organic lifeforms, so we can assume that they do not have a soul. It's best to keep that religion bit away from this kind of stuff, since it has no hold on this debate. Either way, gems don't have souls because they are inorganic.
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I'm just not down with the 'inorganic doesn't have a soul' thing. Mettaton is a robot animated by magic, but has it's own personality and soul.Tkal378 said:
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Mettaron is actually the soul of a ghost (Napstablook's cousin) put into the robotic body.
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Well ok, I guess Mettaton has special circumstances.
Whatever, if you want to play up the 'gems have no soul' angle then fine, but that makes this a mismatch then. You can't put a character who only uses soul magic and who can only attack the soul against something that has no soul, there's no point.
That's like putting goddess Madoka against something and saying 'but that other character is not a witch'.
Whatever, if you want to play up the 'gems have no soul' angle then fine, but that makes this a mismatch then. You can't put a character who only uses soul magic and who can only attack the soul against something that has no soul, there's no point.
That's like putting goddess Madoka against something and saying 'but that other character is not a witch'.
