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Saint Seiya Discussion Thread (IV)

Compsito said:
Hello, good morning, afternoon or evening. I've seen that the SS climbers of this wiki meet here, and well, I'm sorry to bother you but I wanted to know if any of you could help me with a small problem I'm having when climbing the verse. Can any of you help me?
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Ask away
 
Compsito said:
I understand that Hell is considered a realm of infinite extension, but then it is said that the Wailing Wall is the "end" of Hell. Does having a limit mean that it is no longer infinite, or is there another background context? (sorry if the images are out of order)
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Under vswiki policy it does not. Using cardinal system there is infinite points between 0 and 1. But the limit/end to that infinity is still 0 or 1. So infinity having an end us feasible
 
Hasty12345 said:
Does the existence of the number 1 mean infinite natural numbers cannot exist?
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Obviously not, but it was said that the underworld has a "beginning" and is made up of 4 spheres, 8 prisons, 3 valleys and 10 pits. And these structures make up the underworld. Although the scan again says that it is infinite, it seems strange to me that it has a beginning and an end, and a finite amount of structures make up its structure, unless the 4 spheres, 8 prisons, etc., are structures of infinite size, although it does not seem very feasible that the protagonists have traveled an infinite distance.
 
TheUnshakableOne said:
Under vswiki policy it does not. Using cardinal system there is infinite points between 0 and 1. But the limit/end to that infinity is still 0 or 1. So infinity having an end us feasible
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I understand, but didn't the protagonists travel the distance of the Underworld? Since they started their journey from the beginning of the Underworld, and then arrived at the end of it
 
Compsito said:
Obviously not, but it was said that the underworld has a "beginning" and is made up of 4 spheres, 8 prisons, 3 valleys and 10 pits. And these structures make up the underworld. Although the scan again says that it is infinite, it seems strange to me that it has a beginning and an end, and a finite amount of structures make up its structure, unless the 4 spheres, 8 prisons, etc., are structures of infinite size, although it does not seem very feasible that the protagonists have traveled an infinite distance.
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Just in general the hades arc was rushed. Kurumada wanted to end it quickly that is why in the later part of the hades arc had some non sensical stuff
 
Compsito said:
Obviously not, but it was said that the underworld has a "beginning" and is made up of 4 spheres, 8 prisons, 3 valleys and 10 pits. And these structures make up the underworld. Although the scan again says that it is infinite, it seems strange to me that it has a beginning and an end, and a finite amount of structures make up its structure, unless the 4 spheres, 8 prisons, etc., are structures of infinite size, although it does not seem very feasible that the protagonists have traveled an infinite distance.
Click to expand...
The way the underworld is depicted and described makes it out to be a finitely large material object within an infinite/endless expanse.

Not that it matters how big the UW is, it’s redundant to the current scaling of any character.
 
Compsito said:
Obviously not, but it was said that the underworld has a "beginning" and is made up of 4 spheres, 8 prisons, 3 valleys and 10 pits. And these structures make up the underworld. Although the scan again says that it is infinite, it seems strange to me that it has a beginning and an end, and a finite amount of structures make up its structure, unless the 4 spheres, 8 prisons, etc., are structures of infinite size, although it does not seem very feasible that the protagonists have traveled an infinite distance.
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If there is a beginning and an end it is obviously not infinite, i don't know exactly how this ended up happening here at vsbtles that the underworld is infinite having a literal end.
 
LuffyRuffy46307 said:
If there is a beginning and an end it is obviously not infinite, i don't know exactly how this ended up happening here at vsbtles that the underworld is infinite having a literal end.
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actually, this isn’t strictly true. In math, you could have a circle with a center point and an edge(which is implied by it being a circle), with a radius that isn’t finite. It’s conceptually possible, although it would technically be a line so I’ve heard.
 
Compsito said:
Obviously not, but it was said that the underworld has a "beginning" and is made up of 4 spheres, 8 prisons, 3 valleys and 10 pits. And these structures make up the underworld. Although the scan again says that it is infinite, it seems strange to me that it has a beginning and an end, and a finite amount of structures make up its structure, unless the 4 spheres, 8 prisons, etc., are structures of infinite size, although it does not seem very feasible that the protagonists have traveled an infinite distance.
Click to expand...
The prisons are of infinite size, as they contain infinite souls. Since the cosmology has infinite worlds, infinite people die. This is supported by prisons being stated to be space-times in of themselves. There’s just so many sinners that you need universes to torture them all.
As I explained above, an infinite structure could conceptually have both a start and end, the distance between just needs to be infinite.
Finally, yeah Seiya and the gang basically crossed an infinite distance. It’s just an outlier. Kuru was again, unfortunately pretty rushed while writing it.
 
StekFence said:
actually, this isn’t strictly true. In math, you could have a circle with a center point and an edge(which is implied by it being a circle), with a radius that isn’t finite. It’s conceptually possible, although it would technically be a line so I’ve heard.
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We don't accept that here
 
StekFence said:
The prisons are of infinite size, as they contain infinite souls. Since the cosmology has infinite worlds, infinite people die. This is supported by prisons being stated to be space-times in of themselves. There’s just so many sinners that you need universes to torture them all.
As I explained above, an infinite structure could conceptually have both a start and end, the distance between just needs to be infinite.
Finally, yeah Seiya and the gang basically crossed an infinite distance. It’s just an outlier. Kuru was again, unfortunately pretty rushed while writing it.
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That's not how it works, prisons were never declared to be of infinite size, the underworld could very well be the size of the planet and souls could fit there ( why souls reincarnate). I can use this same argument to update multiple afterlives, since it doesn't have a set size.
 
LuffyRuffy46307 said:
That's not how it works, prisons were never declared to be of infinite size, the underworld could very well be the size of the planet and souls could fit there ( why souls reincarnate). I can use this same argument to update multiple afterlives, since it doesn't have a set size.
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If infinite universes exist, you do realize that means infinite people die at once right? Even if they do reincarnate, you’d still be cycling infinite souls all at once. In addition, not everybody gets to reincarnate. At least not for a while. Some saint souls get stuck there for millions of years
 
StekFence said:
If infinite universes exist, you do realize that means infinite people die at once right? Even if they do reincarnate, you’d still be cycling infinite souls all at once. In addition, not everybody gets to reincarnate. Some saint souls get stuck there for millions of years
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There are infinite universes, but in all these universes there is still an afterlife, ND the entire underworld is shown there (even though Hades died and said that the underworld went with him), you would be right if there was only one underworld. But there are several of them in Saint Seiya in each Universe.
 
StekFence said:
True! One planet size space can hold the literally multiverses worth of people! So true! Keep cooking king!
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Yes, just like the underworld beneath a castle well, there is not just one underworld for the entire multiverse, but rather several of them. If there really was only one underworld, destruction would remain in all timelines and we know that this did not happen.
 
LuffyRuffy46307 said:
ND the entire underworld is shown there (even though Hades died and said that the underworld went with him)
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Well first of all, he’s not dead, as shown in Rrop and G. Secondly, ND’s underworld is pre its destruction. Since this is an instance of the past where hades has not yet encountered Seiya in elysium, and the underworld has its own flow of time, this is just prior in its own time.
 
Also, G shows that the underworld can be rebuilt, so even if I was wrong above, you wouldn’t be correct either
 
StekFence said:
Well first of all, he’s not dead, as shown in Rrop and G. Secondly, ND’s underworld is pre its destruction. Since this is an instance of the past where hades has not yet encountered Seiya in elysium, and the underworld has its own flow of time, this is just prior in its own time.
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You mentioned that there is only one underworld, if it really existed it wouldn't be there and the same thing happens for the things i mentioned. There is an underworld for each Universe and not just unique, because the destruction caused in classic Saint Seiya would happen in all time periods, so no, there is not just one underworld for the multiverse.
 
Why would it happen in all time periods? That destruction happens at a point in its own personal timeline. The underworld does not conduct holy wars all at the same time, it’s one at a time. That means that every holy war, including the next dimension war, are all prior to the point in the underworld timeline were it would be destroyed
LuffyRuffy46307 said:
You mentioned that there is only one underworld, if it really existed it wouldn't be there and the same thing happens for the things i mentioned. There is an underworld for each Universe and not just unique, because the destruction caused in classic Saint Seiya would happen in all time periods, so no, there is not just one underworld for the multiverse.
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The only way this would be true is if Hades soul split into infinite fragments, and so too do the specters, which is headcanon
 
Also, Athena in dark wings refers to the god cloth bronzes, meaning that Elysiums destruction has occurred in the classic already. But in dark wings this hasn’t happened, thus showing that two universes don’t operate on the same temporal interactions with the underworld. I could draw you a map if you still don’t get it


Edit: it’s not really a map, more of a visual guide to how the living timelines interact with the underworld.
 
Last edited:
StekFence said:
Why would it happen in all time periods? That destruction happens at a point in its own personal timeline. The underworld does not conduct holy wars all at the same time, it’s one at a time. That means that every holy war, including the next dimension war, are all prior to the point in the underworld timeline were it would be destroyed

The only way this would be true is if Hades soul split into infinite fragments, and so too do the specters, which is headcanon
Click to expand...
You mentioned that every soul in the multiverse goes to the underworld, i assumed that this underworld would be just the single underworld from the classic one, because it wouldn't make sense for it to still exist in the past, since the underworld serves as a repository of souls for the entire multiverse, as you stated... But we saw in ND that there was an underworld, so i assume there are multiple underworlds for all Universes.

Hades cannot fragment his soul like other characters, because this would cause changes in space-time and make Hades from another timeline not awaken.

Just remember, Elíseos wasn't the only thing he did, like the entire underworld and its prisons.
 
StekFence said:
Also, Athena in dark wings refers to the god cloth bronzes, meaning that Elysiums destruction has occurred in the classic already. But in dark wings this hasn’t happened, thus showing that two universes don’t operate on the same temporal interactions with the underworld. I could draw you a map if you still don’t get it


Edit: it’s not really a map, more of a visual guide to how the living timelines interact with the underworld.
Click to expand...
But you would be refuted, because all souls in the multiverse goes to the underworld and according to you there is only one, so the destruction of the underworld should happen in all time periods, but that is not happening... So there is more than one underworld mirrored in the Universe to contain souls.
 
Hasty12345 said:
The way the underworld is depicted and described makes it out to be a finitely large material object within an infinite/endless expanse.

Not that it matters how big the UW is, it’s redundant to the current scaling of any character.
Click to expand...
Thanks
 
Iirc I'm pretty sure only elysium is stated to be infinite and the other "infinite" statement in pretty sure was referring the adjective "dismal" which you know means dreary, gloomy, depressing etc.

Could ne wrong though

But 2-C was booted a long time ago top iirc it's all 2-A now
 
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