Saint Seiya Acausality+Causality manipulation?

[SSJRyu1]

Anybody get the infinitely above Lucifer power god statement? That could at least prove 2A exists in the verse for certain. I do agree Zeus is probably 2B on the low end by scaling, but imo we need an infinite timelines, or infinitely above regular gods statement to realistically say Chronus is defiantly 2A as opposed to at least 2B.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

imma download the OVA and try finding those.

 

[SSJRyu1]

Awesome, thanks Matt. I don't think I ever actually saw that OVA, if you find it streaming let me know cause id like to watch it. Hopefully we can confirm 2A from it.

 

[Victor2]

i barely watched the OVA myself, it`s pretty hard to find in english

 

[SSJRyu1]

Has anybody been able to find a statement that puts Chronus infinitely above the Olympians yet, or God as infinitely above Lucifer? If not I recommend making Chronus and God At least 2B as I haven't seen proof they are infinitely beyond the Olympians.

 

[SSJRyu1]

So has anybody found the statements yet for God? I think we should probably put God and Chronus at At Least 2-B since we have no confirmation that there are infinite timelines, no confirmation that Chronus is infinitely above the Olympians, and no confirmation that God is infinitely above Lucifer. So if we go conservatively like normal then I'd think At least 2-B is the most we have proven as fact for Chronus and God so far.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Frankly, this topic is tiresome.

All the confirmation of what makes Chronos 2-A is in his profie and previous upgrade threads featuring the character, something that has been covered over and over. The Space-Time, 4-Dimensional spectrum is completely irrelevant to him, and all of past and future in all timelines is just a part of him, as he transcends all timelines and space-time. He also transcends the Olympian Gods, much like they transcend humans, and Zeus is a 4D being in Cosmos.

Tivanenk (Guy who translates Saint Seiya) thinks he should be High 2-A, and so does The Everlasting, 2-A is very conservative.

As for God, the movie writes him as the supreme God, as he is called the creator, and even pulling direct lines from the Bible (Isaiah 14). While he is never directly called Omnipotent or stated to be infinitely above Lucifer, it is very clear that he is written a the all-mighty god above all others, and likely some sort of Supreme Being.

Neither ranking is said to be 100% certain in the profiles, but they are not without justification.

I admit that if this was a baffling rating like having Goku at 2-C or above, I'd raise an eyebrow, but this seems acceptable.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with Matthew.

 

[SSJRyu1]

Well i've said my piece, I don't see a reason to think he's High 2-A unless we consider anybody who is beyond space and time automatically High 2-A, I see it as hypocritical to place guys like Arceus who also transcend time and space and the rest of the verse causally even combined as At least 2-C, yet give Chronus possibly 2-A simply because he is beyond time and space, and 2-C - 2-B Olympians, realistically the feats on Arceus and Chronus are near identical, except the SS verse is 2-B size and Pokémon is 2-C size, so logically if the same standards are upheld Chronus should be At least 2-B, but of course in the end it's your call for this wiki not mine.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Completely transcendent over countless Timelines where each Timeline features several universe sized realms and Multiversal entities > Far more impressive then Arceus

 

[SSJRyu1]

I agree it is more impressive due to the size of the verse, but he is still beyond a 2-B multiverse, and 2-C and 2-B entities, Arceus is beyond a 2-C multiverse and 2-C entities yet only At least 2-C, he didn't jump past the rank of his verse just for transcending it and the entities in it completely, he just got an at least added, using the same standard Chronus would logically be At least 2-B, nothing i've seen indicates he is likely infinitely above his verse or the Olympians, just an unknown amount above. I am not saying it is impossible for him to be 2-A, jut that there is no undeniable proof for it.

 

[Tivanenk]

He transcends a 4-D realm. That's more than enough proof.

 

[SSJRyu1]

I don't see how, Arceus does as well yet he is still 2C.

 

[SomebodyData]

Arceus transcended the fourth dimension? Mind showing proof?

 

[Promestein]

Arceus transcended a four-dimensinal construct but not the fourth dimension as a whole, IIRC

 

[Tivanenk]

Chronos literally transcends the infinite points of time on a time scale, the time dimension (it's only a small part of him), and the three dimensional dimensional space of the multiverse. What don't you get about it?

 

[SSJRyu1]

That is what his profile states, it says "(Exists beyond traditional space, time, matter, and concepts of speed. Its consciousness exists all across space and time)" For an explanation of his speed ranking, as to where they got that I don't know.

I just don't see actual proof of Chronus being infinitely above the Olympians, and since there is not proof of the SS multiverse being 2-A in size I don't see why being beyond 2-B construct and 2-C and 2-B beings makes him 2-A unless he was infinitely above them.

 

[SomebodyData]

I believe you misunderstood, he exists beyond traditional space and time.

 

[SSJRyu1]

What's the difference between transcending traditional space and time and what Chronus has done? My understanding is both are beyond space and time, or beyond 4D. iirc that doesn't make you automatically 2-A.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

No. Arceus is beyond the Pokemon timelines, but not beyond space-time as a concept. He isn't described as transcendent over it.

 

[SSJRyu1]

OK, thanks for the clarification on Arceus, the profile was suggesting he was simply beyond space time in general, should maybe be edited to clarify this. So anybody who is beyond space time as a concept is automatically 2-A? If so then I agree, but if not I still don't see why he would be 2-A.

 

[SSJRyu1]

I'm just confused on what exactly is meeting the criteria of making Chronus 2-A.

Is it that he transcends time and space?

Is it that he is far above a lot of 2-B guys?

Or is it that he is above a 2-B multiverse?

If I am reading your response correctly theses are the things your showing, but do any of them meet the criteria for 2-A, and if so why?

 

[Victor2]

Ayyy lmao

 

[Victor2]

you seriously need to drop this topic SSJRyu

find another to disscuss stop bumping this thread

 

[SSJRyu1]

Well I just want a clear answer. btw I do have other threads ongoing, but I don't see how those 3 things make him 2-A. If you can just explain to me precisely what feat/statement made him 2-A and why I would be happy because my understanding is being transcendent to time and space doesn't automatically qualify for 2-A, and being beyond 2-B multiverse doesn't either, and being beyond a bunch of 2-B beings to my knowledge doesn't either, so what is qualifying him as 2A specifically?

 

[Ryukama]

@Victor There is nothing wrong with someone who is confused on a topic to ask in a polite and civilized matter like SSJRyu is. You have no right to tell him things like "you seriously need to drop this topic" so kindly stop that. This site is meant to be encouraging and kind towards users and their questions.

 

[-BANLK-]

Well I am not really knowledgeable about Saint Seiya verse but from what I understand the cosmos of gods like zeus and hades are 4 dimensional in nature and Chronus completely transcends that which technically makes him a 5 dimensional being so I think that might be the reason of putting him in tier 2A.

 

[Victor2]

@SSJRyu chronos is not outright 2-A

you`r misstaking 2-A with possible 2-A

"possible 2-A" means it`s open for debating about it`s tier, and thus chronos would lose to any 2-A tier characters since he has not proven to be outright 2-A tier character. so like i said: he is just "possible 2-A" which is not as being outright 2-A

 

[Victor2]

@Ryukama i apologize then. i just think this topic is becoming old and both Matt and anavati agreed that this is old

 

[Ryukama]

@Victor It's fine. I understand old topics can be quite annoying, just please try not to be as rude when expressing that. Thanks very much for understanding.

 

[SSJRyu1]

OK thanks for clarifying the difference of 2A and possibly 2A. So we know we aren't assuming 5D, although can anybody explain to me what about his feats/statements makes him this tier though? If somebody is significantly above 2B levels does that make them possibly 2A? Or am I missing something? For example lets say we had a character, they were beyond space and time and the multiverse for their franchise was 2B in size, would this always result in possibly 2A?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Being ridiculously above a High End 2-B thing (All of an immesurable Multiverse and the 2-B beings in it) makes one possibly 2-A, yes.

Also, I'm changing God / Yahweh to possibly 2-A too, since he's kinda vague. I hope this leaves us all in the same page.

 

[SSJRyu1]

OK, thanks for the clarification, I wasn't aware of that, but I do agree he is well above a 2-B multiverse and multiple 2-B beings, so if that qualifies then I agree with his current rank. Although you may want to remove the "infinite" word from God's profile if you couldn't find it in the OVA and just say he is vastly beyond Lucifer or something like that.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Ok.