Sailor Moon Revision Project: Speed Update

[Antvasima]

All staff:

So do the currently listed Sailor Moon speeds need to be downgraded?

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

I brought it up in another thread, but Dollorean was able to time travel via flying 82 miles per hour with only 1.21 Gigawatts of energy.

This has literally nothing to do with Sailor Moon and is just a strawman. Unless you can actually prove that characters in Sailor Moon can travel through time when they reach a certain speed.

 

[SSJRyu1]

I'm not moving any goalpost, I don't even set the goalposts ever, the staff do. I'm just letting you know their standards as I understand them on immeasurable speed and giving you my stance on if the feats you showed would qualify. Anyhow the staff above pretty much answered the rest of your questions, my personal opinion on the matter is as I mentioned above.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, so far I'm not seeing concrete evidence for Immeasurable.

 

[Antvasima]

All staff:

So do the currently listed Sailor Moon speeds need to be downgraded?

I am not sure whether the Sailor Moon pages need to have their speed levels adjusted downwards, due to previous immeasurable ratings, or if the suggestions here have simply been rejected.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

I would like to get input from more staff because this just completely contradicts what is written on the Speed page of the wiki. I have more than given enough scans that more than qualifies.

Immeasurable (Movement beyond linear time. This is why the speed cannot be measured. Given that S = D/T, if T is undefined the speed formula cannot be applied. This is the same reason why multiple temporal dimensions also grant immeasurable speed. For further information, see note 6 below.)

Being able to casually roam around freely across linear time qualifies for immeasurable speed. However, traveling to different time periods through movement is a common feat in fiction that often leads to inconsistencies and has been done via FTL travel or running laps around the earth faster than it rotates. This can lead to characters being assigned an additional, independent, speed rating for the ability. This should preferably be evaluated case by case.

The difference between infinite and immeasurable is that the former can go everywhere instantly, whereas the latter can go everywhere and everywhen faster than instantly.

The silver crystal is specifically said to unhindered by the layers of time. And traveled to everywhere and everywhen in a single panel.
Black Lady and Death Phantom can not only casually roam around freely across linear time, they can casually reach places that exist outside of time, and have no concept of distance or direction. Both the T and the D are non-existent.
The Sailor Moon Universe has multiple temporal dimensions (layers of time) and the silver crystal was able to fill them all up.

Like c'mon? What exactly is the issue?

It's not teleportation because no showing of teleportation in the series works or is shown like that.
It's not dimensional travel because no showing of dimensional traveling in the series works or is shown like that.
It's not just simple time travel because time travel is done via time key or via spaceship which teleports across time.
Characters who can teleport across space and time, and can also attack people across time cannot do what Death Phantom, Black Lady, and the Silver Crystal did.
Not even Sailor Mercury who can manipulate higher mathematical spatial dimensions can do this
There's no ftl time travel or cheatcodes or anything of the sort in Sailor Moon Universe.

What's the problem?

 

[Antvasima]

@SomebodyData @Dragonmasterxyz @Celestial_Pegasus @Monarch_Laciel @Andytrenom @Dargoo_Faust @Wokistan

Some input help would be appreciated here.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I could swear that we had an entire thread previous that discussed "fast enough to travel though time" kinds of feats and how time travel via speed is unquantifiable and 90% of the time fiction is just telling you that going arbitraily fast lets you pull off some esoteric power.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

I could swear that we had an entire thread previous that discussed "fast enough to travel though time" kinds of feats and how time travel via speed is unquantifiable and 90% of the time fiction is just telling you that going arbitraily fast lets you pull off some esoteric power.

Yes but in this case that's not what's happening. There is no mechanic in Sailor Moon that allows people to time travel via speed. Time travel is done in a different method.

The characters in question are the only ones freely able to move through and out of time like they were taking a sunday stroll.

 

[Wokistan]

I don't know a thing about sailor moon, but I'm not seeing why these would be immeasurable as opposed to just time travel.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Yes but in this case that's not what's happening. There is no mechanic in Sailor Moon that allows people to time travel via speed. Time travel is done in a different method.

Alternatively we can just say that what you’ve presented is clear evidence that this is the case. Who’s to say that time travel needs to have only one mechanism in a series? Comics like DC and Marvel have more "time travel" mechanics than I can count on one of my hands.

 

[00potato]

But you are just assuming that this is another form of that; which makes no sense from a logical perspective
The whole time travel assumption is just that a loose assumption.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Alternatively we can just say that what you’ve presented is clear evidence that this is the case. Who’s to say that time travel needs to have only one mechanism in a series? Comics like DC and Marvel have more "time travel" mechanics than I can count on one of my hands.

When has dc or marvel introduced a time travel mechanic and not explained it as one?

There is no eveidence to suggest that there is one. Why would the author specifically go out of their way to create a new time travel mechanic and not explain when the time traveling mechanics of the time key and the dead moon ship are explained

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Bumping this!

I want this to be done and decided, so I can post other things. (or I'm just going to post other things and dual wield CR threads)

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And if Immeasurable speed doesn't get accepted then Infinite speed should be the thing to take it's place.

A. Sailor Universe is Infinite temporarily and spatially (1 & 2)
B. The Corridor of Spacetime and the Rifts are beyond infinite in size. (outside of time and space of the universe, timeless, with no concept of distance or direction)

1. Silver Crystal lit up all of space and time and all the rifts
2. The Dark Crystal sent shockwaves travelling throughout all time
3. Black Lady and Death Phantom can instantly and physically travel from inside the universe to outside of it, crossing over infinite space and infinite time

I am sure being able to instantly and physically travel infinite spatial and temporal distances grants infinite speed rating.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Bump.

 

[Antvasima]

It seems like this suggestion has been rejected by our staff.

 

[Wokistan]

"1. Silver Crystal lit up all of space and time and all the rifts
2. The Dark Crystal sent shockwaves travelling throughout all time"

Wouldn't these just be attack speed

 

[00potato]

I guess, I haven’t read any Sailor Moon, if they fight against the crystals or have a reason scale than they probably should have that much speed. Ask the OP

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

"1. Silver Crystal lit up all of space and time and all the rifts
2. The Dark Crystal sent shockwaves travelling throughout all time"

Wouldn't these just be attack speed

Yes. That's what I'm arguing for, the attack speed.

The only characters that would have gotten infinite speed or immeasurable speed would be for Black Lady and Death Phantom who are the only ones shown to be able to traverse these distances physically.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Bumping this.

And if Immeasurable speed doesn't get accepted then Infinite speed should be the thing to take it's place.

A. Sailor Universe is Infinite temporarily and spatially (1 & 2)
B. The Corridor of Spacetime and the Rifts are beyond infinite in size. (outside of time and space of the universe, timeless, with no concept of distance or direction)

1. Silver Crystal lit up all of space and time and all the rifts
2. The Dark Crystal sent shockwaves travelling throughout all time
3. Black Lady and Death Phantom can instantly and physically travel from inside the universe to outside of it, crossing over infinite space and infinite time

I am sure being able to instantly and physically travel infinite spatial and temporal distances grants infinite speed rating.

Also: I went through the wiki itself and looked at the pages for the characters who have Immeasurable Speed. I am seeing characters who have immeasurable speed for things that are being denied as proof for immeasurable speed in this thread.

Spoiler: A list:

Master Unit: Amaterasu

Immeasurable (Can move in Boundary, a dimension beyond space and time)

Bobobo-bo Bo-bobo

Immeasurable (Should be faster than Bobopatchnosuke, who could move in Majide Time, a higher spatial dimension where time and space mean nothing and the new flow of time take forever for any amount of time to occur. Can move in his super-dimensional spaces.)

Morgoth

Immeasurable (Existed in the Timeless Halls, a place that transcended linear time and is best likened to a higher temporal dimension)

Magnus the Red

Immeasurable (Beyond the concepts of time, space, or distance)

John Egbert

Immeasurable (Comparable to other God Tier Players such as Dave and Rose, who could travel from the center to the surface of the Green Sun, which is twice as massive as a Genesis Frog. Kept up with Bec Noir, who can move through the Furthest Ring, an infinite space devoid of time that exists outside of all Genesis Frogs

Mekhane

Immeasurable (Fought Yaldabaoth in a war outside of space and time)

Alphamon

Immeasurable (Moved through spacetime from the past (Ulud Terminal) to the future (Skuld Terminal). It was directly described as having transcended spacetime to save the world)

Sol Badguy & Sin Kiske

At least Massively FTL+, possibly Immeasurable (Slayer considers Sol capable of seriously challenging him and is likely faster than Jack-O. Able to move within Underworld Hill, a place beyond time itself. Able to move in Backyard which is a higher-dimension)

At least Massively FTL+, possibly Immeasurable (Kept up with Jack-O. Able to move in Underworld Hill, a place beyond time)

Morax

Immeasurable (Demon Gods exist naturally unbound by Space-Time and the Laws of Physics, being natives to the Expanse, a higher realm which transcends the flow of linear Time across the Multiverse, and allows individuals to travel through Time by using it as a medium)

Alduin

Immeasurable (Is unbound by the concept of linear time and exists outside of it, living in the spaces between Kalpas. Unaffected by Dragon Breaks. Capable of literally flying through the currents of time, and traveling from Nirn to Sovngarde with sheer speed)

Vector Prime

Immeasurable (Exists beyond linear time and is at least comparable to The Chronarchitect, and should be faster than Alternity)

Unicron

Immeasurable (Exists beyond linear time. At least comparable to Vector Prime and the Chronarchitect. Has been stated to exist beyond the space-time of the multiverse and routinely travels within the void of non-space)

I can go on and on. There are several other profiles with similar reasons. I can only logically see three explanations:

1. These characters shouldn't have immeasurable speed based on the reasonings.
2. These characters do have immeasurable speed but the reasoning is not presented well enough on the profile or missing the proper explanation.
3. These characters should have immeasurable speed based on the reasonings given.

In the case of 3, what separates these reasonings than the ones I give above?