Sage Mode Naruto and Pain

[MinatoSparkle]

Sage Mode Naruto has a 7-A rating, which doesn't make much sense. Same with Pain. That's because one Shinra Tensei from Pain completely stomped several toads, including Gamabunta, who is High 6-C. And yet, Naruto could fight pretty evenly against Pain. True, Shinra Tensei was pretty effective against him, but it didn't knock him down for the count like it did with Gamabunta. I suppose it depends on how you look at it and how powerful that Shinra Tensei was, but I think an At least 7-A rating is more appropriate than 7-A. Same with Tailed Beast Transformation Naruto as well, considering he was able to completely resist a powerful Shinra Tensei.

 

[M3X_2.0]

We are working on how we can put "At least" and "higher" for some keys

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Where?

 

[Chrisras]

Didn't he also damage Kurama in his battle with him? I know it didn't knock him out or anything, but the fox was in fact shocked by his strenght. And since Naruto didn't train or anything after the Pain fight, I don't see why this wouldn't scale to his Sage mode during the Pain fight.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Where?

Discord group. Want to join?

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Oh, I don`t use Discord. You should bring up this though.

 

[NoodIes67]

Kakashi is also directly able to tank 2 shinra tensei attacks at point blank range, the same attack that broke every bone in gamabunta's body.

Durability feat 1- here - here

Durability feat 2- here - here

Gamabunta getting bodied- here

I think this should constitute an upgrade for kakashi, sage naruto, and pain, as each of these characters scale to each other and above gamabunta.

 

[Callsign_Castle]

Implying the effort he used in both scenarios was similar.

 

[NoodIes67]

Unless otherwise shown we wouldn't assume he is holding back. pain even states that Kakashi is not someone who he would want to keep alive as he could cause difficulty for him later, so he especially has no reason to hold back against him.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

The Narutoverse is going through a pretty big revision, so the scaling and tiers might change.

 

[NoodIes67]

Yeah regardless of what they end up placing the biju and gamabunta at, kakashi's durability should still scale above gamabunta so unless Kakashi has some big durability anti feats this should be the scaling for pain arc kakashi and above.

 

[Damage3245]

Gamabunta's scaling is a bit wrong I think. He's High 6-C+ for ripping off Shukaku's arm but Shukaku's profile states that is intangible / made of sand so Gamabunta shouldn't be scaling for that reason.

 

[NoodIes67]

Both gaara and naruto are able to interact with shukaku, and shukaku also interacts with the environment, so he is not intangible, and the tailed beasts composition is solely chakra so he wouldn't be made out of sand either.

 

[Damage3245]

@Noodle67; I'm just going by what his profile says currently. And when Gamabutna does cut off Shukaku's arm there is a spray of sand.

Looks pretty similar to a Logia tbh.

It wouldn't be true intangibility, but a kind of elemental body / elemental intangibility.

 

[NoodIes67]

I've never heard of elemental intangibility before, nor do I really understand what that means. The intangibility that is referenced on the tailed beasts pages is when the tailed beasts are specifically shown in their pure energy states. "Although the Bijuu transform into physical matter and give themselves normal biological bodies they are primarily made entirely out of energy, and have been shown to exist in this state.", this is the first thing that is talked about under their intangibility ability. Basically Shukaku was manifested into his physical state when he fought Gamabunta and was not in his "energy' state like in the scene with the tailed beasts and Hagaormo.

 

[Damage3245]

Ah, well we used to have a separate Elemental Intangibility page but it was combined with the Intangibility page.

It is mentioned on there as a subtype.

Shukaku almost certainly applies for it and it is referenced at the end of the description of his Intangibility on his profile.

 

[NoodIes67]

That is a likely possibility, so you could assume that his ap does not scale to shukaku's, but gamabunta was capable of tanking a few attacks from shukaku's air blasts however was one shotted by shinra tensei. and Kakashi proceeded to tank 2 of these shinra tensei's as well.

Shukaku's wind style is very deadly as it was capable of piercing revived hashirama celled rinnegan madara for refrence as to how strong his attacks are.

 

[Damage3245]

Well, that's possible. Although there are some factors to take into consideration like Shinra Tensei's varying strength.

It can go from being enough to deflect a kunai and send a nail flying, all the way up to destroying Konoha Village.

So I don't think we can directly compare Pain sending the toads flying to Pain crushing Kakashi.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I think honestly all of the Akatsuki scale to the bijuu, as their missions are to defeat jinchuriki who are potentialy stronger than biju.

 

[Damage3245]

I think honestly all of the Akatsuki scale to the bijuu, as their missions are to defeat jinchuriki who are potentialy stronger than biju.

Very few of the Jinchuriki have perfect control over their Biju.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

That's not true at all. The only one's that didn't have control are Naruto and Gaara, and the three tails, but that's because it didn't have a Jinchuriki.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Yeah, two tails just transformed into the full bijuu state at will when facing Hidan and Kakuzu. I remember very clearly because I've been rewatching and just saw that episode. Also, I might be remembering wrong, but don't you have to be stronger than your bijuu to achieve perfect control?

 

[AstralKing7]

All of the jins have control of the tailed beast except Naruto and Gaara ƒÿæƒÿæƒÿæ

 

[AstralKing7]

But I agree not all of the Akatsuki scale to the biju

 

[Damage3245]

All of the jins have control of the tailed beast except Naruto and Gaara ƒÿæƒÿæƒÿæ

We didn't see all of the Jins prior to their Edo Tensei reincarnation, did we? So how would we know how much control Han had for example.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Obito, Pain, Itachi, HIdan and Kakuzu, Deidara, and Kisame, at least with their strongest attacks, do definitely scale.

 

[Damage3245]

I have to disagree with some of that list - but this is kind of getting away from the original point of the thread, isn't it?

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

Most of them will scale to 6-C anyways from 6 tailed Naruto once the revisions are done.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Shhhhh, this is a secret

 

[Damage3245]

According to this page, only a very small number of individuals have achieved full control over a Tailed Beast.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

According to this page, only a very small number of individuals have achieved full control over a Tailed Beast.

That's been proven wrong since the 2 tails has full control same with the 4, 6, and 7 tails.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Well, I'm kinda just saying a lot of people should be High 6-C because of scaling and indirect scaling. That's the point of the thread, so it's not entirely unrelated. Also, why do you disagree?

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

Depending on the revisions, the Bijuu might not be High 6-C anymore.

 

[Damage3245]

That's been proven wrong since the 2 tails has full control same with the 4, 6, and 7 tails.

Aren't the examples you've listed anime-only? When did they show full control in the manga?

And the case with the 2-Tails may be that she was only tapping into a portion of the Biju's power. Especially since her transformed form was much smaller than the 2-Tails appears later in the series.

 

[Jvando]

That's...headcannon. If she wanted to tap into just a portion of the Biju's power, she could have used her version 1 or version 2 cloak, not her full tailed beast state. The simplest conclusion with the least assumptions is an inconsistency in the drawing.

 

[AstralKing7]

Aren't the examples you've listed anime-only? When did they show full control in the manga?

And the case with the 2-Tails may be that she was only tapping into a portion of the Biju's power. Especially since her transformed form was much smaller than the 2-Tails appears later in the series.

Sizes has nothing to do with control man. You can't tap into a portion of any power and use a full Biju transformation. This was even explained by Killer Bee to Naruto. U have to have full sync with your Tailed beast not a portion.

Also does aren't anime only. It's actually in the manga