RWBY: Penny's lasers

[Spinoirr]

apparently we now have even more supporting stuff for Penny's lasers being lightspeed
because lasers causing explosions and imparting physical force are no longer disqualifiers for lightspeed

https://vsbattles.com/threads/do-these-attacks-qualify-as-realistic-light.138002/

The only character shown to dodge Penny's lasers to my knowledge was phyrra in the tournament in vol 3 and Cinder in vol 8 so that needs to be calculated if her lasers are light speed


at 1:23


starting at 1:20

 

[KLOL506]

I have asked @DontTalkDT to clarify regarding this, because last I remember the whole "beams causing things to explode" no longer counted as disqualifiers, right around the time HST revisions (Specifically, One Piece and the light beam feats involving Kizaru and Silvers Rayleigh I think) were taking place when the old forums still remained.

AFAIK, if you can qualify for at least 2-3 of the qualifying criteria properly, that on its own should be enough.

 

[KLOL506]

@KingTempest @Arc7Kuroi I would appreciate if you would be able to give your input as well, given that some of your verses were involved in similar CRTs.

 

[Spinoirr]

AFAIK, if you can qualify for at least 2-3 of the qualifying criteria properly, that on its own should be enough.

Even without the new qualifications, her lasers:
*only travel in straight lines
*generate heat rather than produce force when impacting objects
*cut things instead of fragmenting them
*Velvet was able to make a perfect replica of her lasers with her Light Dust (Dust in RWBY literally being natural elements turned into crystals)

 

[KLOL506]

Even without the new qualifications, her lasers:
*only travel in straight lines

AFAIK you'd first need to prove that the light reflects off of shiny materials or diffuses to unlock that criteria for usage.

*generate heat rather than produce force when impacting objects
*cut things instead of fragmenting them
*Velvet was able to make a perfect replica of her lasers with her Light Dust (Dust in RWBY literally being natural elements turned into crystals)

Not sure if those mean anything in the long run.

The other requirements as per our laser-dodging feats are these:

• The beam refracts in a new material, such as a liquid (Water is a good example)
• The beam diffuses in a reasonably realistic way, for example: a light being dispersed through a paper mesh or a crystal to scatter it and such (It's mixed with the "reflection" criteria)
• The beam is called lightspeed by reliable sources.
• It is stated to be composed/consisting of photons or light itself (Or stated to be a beam made purely of light/pure beam of light yada yada yada as per this CRT), again by a reliable source.
• It has its origin at a realistic source of light, such as a camera, or any other piece of tech, or stars, etc.

Though if it is called light speed by reliable-enough sources like scientists or actual guidebooks and it isn't written in a hyperbolic way you pretty much need nothing else.

 

[Spinoirr]

Well her lasers come from her swords and we have seen it's made via tech as her swords are shown to have wires inside of them, so it does come from tech

"The blades could be brought together to form a circular ring that was spun to fire a powerful green laser that was capable of splitting into many smaller beams. This attack was powerful enough to slice through metal with ease, and was seen to take down two attacking aircraft by cutting them apart.

The blades could also form several smaller rings that could also shoot several smaller laser beams. Penny also used these smaller ring configurations as thrusters to maneuver herself around the battlefield. She could also form all of them into mini-rifles and shoot individual beams."

 

[KLOL506]

Well her lasers come from her swords and we have seen it's made via tech as her swords are shown to have wires inside of them, so it does come from tech

"The blades could be brought together to form a circular ring that was spun to fire a powerful green laser that was capable of splitting into many smaller beams. This attack was powerful enough to slice through metal with ease, and was seen to take down two attacking aircraft by cutting them apart.

The blades could also form several smaller rings that could also shoot several smaller laser beams. Penny also used these smaller ring configurations as thrusters to maneuver herself around the battlefield. She could also form all of them into mini-rifles and shoot individual beams."

Do these beams reflect off of shiny objects like normal mirrors, shiny metal surfaces or ordinary water puddles? You know, that annoying glare you get on your monitor if the light is directly behind it?

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

I don’t agree that Penny’s lasers fulfill the necessary criteria to be considered lightspeed.

> Velvet was able to make a perfect replica of her lasers with her Light Dust (Dust in RWBY literally being natural elements turned into crystals)

Velvet was able replicate a myriad of weapons with Light Dust, including a scythe and gauntlets, so that specifically doesn’t really prove Penny’s lasers are made of light unless we’re also claiming the other weapons she replicated have the properties of light as well.

Light Dust is also described as “Hard-Light”, which explicitly violates one of the standards for being a tangible, physical substance

It is tangible and can be interacted with physically by normal humans.

 

[KLOL506]

Light Dust is also described as “Hard-Light”, which explicitly violates one of the standards for being a tangible, physical substance

While the whole "tangible" disqualifier as a whole has been... odd to say the least and deserves its own thread, it isn't exactly related to the actual topic at hand, that being lasers exploding on contact.

 

[Spinoirr]

"Light Dust is also described as “Hard-Light”, which explicitly violates one of the standards for being a tangible, physical substance"

Light Dust has two states, an intangible beam state when used as a laser (because how can you vaporize something if it's hard light) and a 'hard light' state when used as a forcefield



Here is the fight in question, Velvet uses Penny's weapon at 1:24



Here is another instance of Penny's lasers, at 0:30

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

While the whole "tangible" disqualifier as a whole has been... odd to say the least and deserves its own thread, it isn't exactly related to the actual topic at hand, that being lasers exploding on contact.

The laser violating one of the criteria isn’t really off-topic. But speaking of that, it doesn’t seem “causes explosions” is a dealbreaker, or if it is it isn’t listed on the laser beam page.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Light Dust has two states, an intangible beam state when used as a laser (because how can you vaporize something if it's hard light) and a 'hard light' state when used as a forcefield

The guidebook describes all of Velvet’s mimicries as being made of hard-light.

Additionally, you didn’t address the fact that Velvet replicates numerous other weapons with Light Dust, so this doesn’t prove that specifically Penny’s lasers are made of light.

 

[Spinoirr]

"The guidebook describes all of Velvet’s mimicries as being made of hard-light."

The clip i just posted that shows her fighting using her light dust weapons shows otherwise when she uses penny's laser attack

"Additionally, you didn’t address the fact that Velvet replicates numerous other weapons with Light Dust, so this doesn’t prove that specifically Penny’s lasers are made of light."

I mean thats fair, Velvet's replica was just meant to be supplementary supporting evidence

 

[KLOL506]

Everything else I am not really an expert on, so I'll be unfollowing this thread until DT responds or something, I guess.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

@KingTempest @Arc7Kuroi I would appreciate if you would be able to give your input as well, given that some of your verses were involved in similar CRTs.

To speak on my experience with laser feats, according to what DT has told me, generally we want 3 of the light speed requirements to be satisfied before concretely calling something light speed. 2 is passable if there’s a high preponderance of evidence, like separate feats that are near light speed, but otherwise 3 requirements being satisfied is far preferred. That’s been my experience with laser feats with Bleach. Other than that I can’t really comment on rwby powerscaling.

 

[CharlesZaGreat]

I'm neutral on this

 

[KLOL506]

To speak on my experience with laser feats, according to what DT has told me, generally we want 3 of the light speed requirements to be satisfied before concretely calling something light speed. 2 is passable if there’s a high preponderance of evidence, like separate feats that are near light speed, but otherwise 3 requirements being satisfied is far preferred. That’s been my experience with laser feats with Bleach. Other than that I can’t really comment on rwby powerscaling.

Nah, just asking if y'all dealt with lasers exploding and shit in One Piece and Bleach and whatnot. Though if those criteria are qualified for, I really don't see how lasers going boom upon hitting their target would have any effect on their speed.

 

[Spinoirr]

Well her lasers don't make explosions as you can see, they just cut through stuff and heat up stuff like metal and a mammoth grimm tusk

 

[Spinoirr]

Video of her laser doing heat damage to a tusk and pushing back that grimm

 

[CharlesZaGreat]

Video of her laser doing heat damage to a tusk and pushing back that grimm

Even in the beginning part of the clip, the beam causes grimm's head to recoil due to force. So, while they're main form of damage is via heat, these beams seem also produce a force to them (Does it have any other disqualifying elements to them)

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Nah, just asking if y'all dealt with lasers exploding and shit in One Piece and Bleach and whatnot. Though if those criteria are qualified for, I really don't see how lasers going boom upon hitting their target would have any effect on their speed.

Don’t quote me on this, but lasers have temperature and can be hot, meaning they can ignite shit, so logically if they’re hot enough they should be able to cause explosions. Although that’s a drastically dumbed down version of it. Like if you put a piece of the suns core on earth it’d make a massive “explosion” due to its immense temp in comparison to its surroundings. Which is the logic I’m basing my statement on. I know Kizaru’s lasers explode but his attacks are verbatim called light speed, and for Bleach we don’t accept that any of the lasers are light speed, so there’s no real analog here.

 

[Spinoirr]

To my knowledge no, as they are made via technology as her swords have wires inside of them and they make heat. They always fire in a straight line and they cut things instead of fragmenting them (like those two bullheads)

Here is another instance of Penny's lasers, at 0:30

 

[Newendigo]

It has its origin at a realistic source of light, such as a camera, or any other piece of tech, or stars, etc.

Excuse me but, why "any other piece of tech"?, I can understand the camera example because one of the primary thing it does is flash a light (I know some cameras don't but you get the point).

Like, a litter for instace is a also a piece of tech which light from its flame, are we now going to say that the speed the fire is produced is light-speed?

 

[Spinoirr]

If it makes a difference, Velvet's weapon is a camera

 

[KLOL506]

Excuse me but, why "any other piece of tech"?, I can understand the camera example because one of the primary thing it does is flash a light (I know some cameras don't but you get the point).

Like, a litter for instace is a also a piece of tech which light from its flame, are we now going to say that the speed the fire is produced is light-speed?

I was more so under the impression that it was for tech that generated real light, like cameras, flashlights, LEDs, lasers, security detection systems or optic-based stuff etc., but I didn't make the rules.

Obviously actual flamethrowers that don't do laser-based stuff and the like would be axed out of the equation.

 

[Qawsedf234]

you pretty much need nothing else.

You need nothing else if it has nothing contradicting it. Of its called a laser but can bounce off dirt and turn tress into squirrels 5hen there's issues with taking the statement at face value.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

May I ask how many folks are agreeing with this? I wish to ask since I did a quick read over, and want to throw myself into the agree-pile since I agree that Penny's lasers have enough proof for them to be light speed.

 

[Spinoirr]

Bump

 

[Damage3245]

Penny's lasers sure look a lot more like just some energy beams than actual speed-of-light lasers.

 

[Spinoirr]

The only thing making her lasers not light speed was they push back stuff but now that's gone Because lasers causing explosions and imparting physical force are no longer disqualifiers for lightspeed

https://vsbattles.com/threads/do-these-attacks-qualify-as-realistic-light.138002/

 

[Spinoirr]

Penny's lasers sure look a lot more like just some energy beams than actual speed-of-light lasers.

Can't that be said about any laser in fiction though? They have properties of being lightspeed and generic energy projection isnt really a thing in rwby, directed energy weapons in rwby are just guns that shoot light dust in its light state. 'They dont look like lightspeed lasers' doesnt really work here.

We see inside of Penny's swords and i don't see anything for light dust to go into so it's probably actually a real laser made via technology and not dust

 

[Damage3245]

Can't that be said about any laser in fiction though? They have properties of being lightspeed and generic energy projection isnt really a thing in rwby, directed energy weapons in rwby are just guns that shoot light dust in its light state. 'They dont look like lightspeed lasers' doesnt really work here.

We see inside of Penny's swords and i don't see anything for light dust to do into so it's probably actually a real laser made via technology and not dust

It could be said about some of them, sure. Plenty of time energy blasts just travel in a straight line, or inflict heat damage on what they hit.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Moving in a straight line or producing heat is not proof of something being light speed.

The beam refracts in a new material, such as a liquid or...
The beam diffuses in a reasonably realistic way or reflects off a material that it can be expected to, such as a non-magical mirror.
The beam is called lightspeed by reliable sources.
It is stated to be composed/consisting of photons or light itself, again by a reliable source.
It has its origin at a realistic source of light, such as a camera.

Does Penny's "lasers" fit any of these criteria? Some are more important than others, such as being called photons or being stated to be light speed by reliable sources.

I don't see anything in the OP that shows her beams are lasers, that they're made of light/photons, and that they move at the speed of light. No diffusion or reflection?

 

[Spinoirr]

It has its origin at a realistic source of light, such as a camera.

It comes from her swords which have wires and a chip inside it, no dust at all are in her blades that fire the lasers, so it does come from technology

 

[TheRustyOne]

It comes from her swords which have wires and a chip inside it, no dust at all are in her blades that fire the lasers, so it does come from technology

That doesn't mean anything.

Just being tech doesn't make it valid whatsoever. You need to provide evidence this thing is moving at light speed, is made of photons, or show it reflecting/diffusing off natural reflected stuff like mirrors or whatever materials.

 

[Kirby905]

Bump

 

[Qawsedf234]

imparting physical force are no longer disqualifiers for lightspeed

KLOL is wrong on that aspect.

Explosions can be used as supplementary evidence to disregard something as a laser, but it can't be the sole piece of evidence as the disqualifier.

It's what the minor sentence note is about regarding not listing everything that does and doesn't qualify as a laser.

This is not a full list of qualities that can qualify/disqualify a feat as a true laser/light beam, but they are what is taken as basic by this wiki.

What happened was that they were no longer an automatic disqualifier for a laser (as in if they exist, no matter the other evidence, it cannot be used for a SoL justification). By themselves are still completely viable counter evidence points, its just if you have other points of evidence they do not automatically discount them now.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

There are no actual qualifiers being met, and while it's not an absolute dealbreaker, the lasers causing knock-back is still a point against. I'm against this.

 

[Spinoirr]

if penny's lasers aren't light speed then what about Ironwood's laser reflecting off of winter's ice

they are both green lasers