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Rule Violation Reports (New forum)
- Thread starter Antvasima
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That makes more sense. No problem.
Anyway, I don't think a decision to ban was actually reached per-se, they self-requested a permaban while it was still in discussion.
SomebodyData
Waiting for Walpurgisnacht Rising and Metroid 6...
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Yeah, at most a topic-ban was on the table and even that was just a suggestion.
But he wanted a perma-ban and it was their own decision. After that began discussion of a ban. If he changes his mind he can reach out to any staff.
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Mr. Bambu
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I did suggest an actual, outright ban. I don't think it is the topic that is the problem. I think GodlyCharmander has not really taken any warnings to heart, and in his case, where he was allowed back under such stringent conditions, I fail to see a way to get it through to him than actual repercussions. Even if every offense tends to be a petty insult-slinging fest, he needs to avoid these.
It doesn't matter now, but I was indeed in favor of a ban (though, I would have gone with Ant's suggestion of a month, happily).
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I would also prefer if we unban him. This does not sit right with me.
Mr. Bambu
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He requested it when he threw a fit for being considered for any punishment at all. If you'd like to contact him and see if he feels differently now that he's maybe calmed down, we can do that, though I still feel at least a one month ban for the sheer number of incidents stacking up is more than justified, given his circumstances.I would also prefer if we unban him. This does not sit right with me.
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@KingTempestOkay. Is somebody who knows Charmander willing to talk with him please?
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Aight
Lilybitdun
She/Her- 2,556
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@Shattas has 5 active CRTS with 3 of them being in the same verse
- https://vsbattles.com/threads/little-thorn-michael-myers-update.192724/
- https://vsbattles.com/threads/thorn-michael-myerss-subsonic-speed-is-being-removed.192671/
- https://vsbattles.com/threads/michael-myers-thorn-timeline-upgrades.187543/
- https://vsbattles.com/threads/freddy-krueger-dw-lifting-strength-upgrade.189888/
- https://vsbattles.com/threads/remove-maniac-cop-3-explosion-from-durability.187170/
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I reached out to them through that latest thread, told them it should be temporarily closed.
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Y'all can't actually be serious, right? Yes yes, unfashionably late, as usual, pardon my manners, but on to why I'm actually here.
You have an individual in Charmander who has been permanently banned before, an individual who I made very evident the problems of with his first ban and subsequent behavior afterwards. Now that he is displaying no trace of improving on his behavior, you're going to do what exactly? Temporary bans and topic bans are what I saw being thrown around.
Reinstate the goddamn perma already.
Part of the natural contract users on probation sign is proving that they can function within the confines of the wiki system as a productive user, or at least a non-disruptive one, and if they do this, full confidence can eventually be re-earned. Charmander has repeatedly proven that his behavior has not improved, and thus has violated the terms of this contract more than once. And you are still intending to show him leniency.
This is my one and last message on this matter. I'm not okay with us bending over backwards for users that have shown they hold our rules in dislike and even outright contempt. Get him out.
You have an individual in Charmander who has been permanently banned before, an individual who I made very evident the problems of with his first ban and subsequent behavior afterwards. Now that he is displaying no trace of improving on his behavior, you're going to do what exactly? Temporary bans and topic bans are what I saw being thrown around.
Reinstate the goddamn perma already.
Part of the natural contract users on probation sign is proving that they can function within the confines of the wiki system as a productive user, or at least a non-disruptive one, and if they do this, full confidence can eventually be re-earned. Charmander has repeatedly proven that his behavior has not improved, and thus has violated the terms of this contract more than once. And you are still intending to show him leniency.
This is my one and last message on this matter. I'm not okay with us bending over backwards for users that have shown they hold our rules in dislike and even outright contempt. Get him out.
Mr. Bambu
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I would largely agree, but his reaction here on the RVRT was beyond childish. Crab described him as holding our rules in contempt and I think that's a fair way of putting it. Any consideration of action resulted in his throwing a tantrum.His behaviour has improved as far as I am aware. His offenses seem to have been very minor.
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Well, from his perspective he feels unfairly targeted by other members in order to shut up his objections to their preferred statistics, which results in him subjectively walking on eggshells.
Mr. Bambu
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From my perspective, we allowed him to return to the community under the condition that he would behave maturely. He then happily was rude to everyone and crashed out the second anything more than a warning was even considered. He broke the contract. I have made a considerable effort to see that this was not a case of "walking on eggshells". I have extended the benefit of the doubt and I have aimed to be fair. He was being an ass.Well, from his perspective he feels unfairly targeted by other members in order to shut up his objections to their preferred statistics, which results in him subjectively walking on eggshells.
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Respectfully if he asked to be perma banned then he gets perma banned
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I am in agreement with this sentiment. We have a major problem with being too lenient on repeat rule-breakers who mock and insult us at every whim. This has to stop.
Charmander should not be allowed back in nor should he be allowed to reduce his ban period whenever he likes. Actions have consequences, and he needs to learn the meaning of that for once.
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The problem is that he was on the promise that he'd behave well, especially when some staff during his last re-appeal did say that the next ban should be permanent no matter what:Again, his offences have been minor as far as I am aware.
This is one is also just an exaggerated viewpoint. There are multiple people who are very openly against our current Undertale/Deltarune statistics, who also happened to make multiple CRTs on the matter, with some even passing, but none of them behave as Charmander does towards the supporters, nor act with this kind of attrition towards them when expressing disagreements. It's only Charmander the one who makes discussions hard to continue literally every time there is a disagreement with someone else by how obnoxious he is towards people commiting the crime of not sharing his viewpoint.
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Yeah I'm agreeing with Crab here, idk why we're giving him a third chance when he was permabanned for a reason, and clearly they're not improving their behavior.
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I completely agree with this, Charmander is quite literally the third user in this year alone that gets back with an apology from a permanent ban that had as one of the reasons behind it the abuse of sockpuppets (the other two being Super Ascended Sean Pazdera and Vapourrrrr) that gets banned once again for falling in exactly the same behavior that caused their first perma ban in the first place.
This is clearly a pattern that has to be stopped, as we cannot go on in giving this much leniency and faith to clear troublemakers who only feel bad for themselves and not what they did, by basing on just their words and nothing else.
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Try to refrain from commenting in the RVR thread, okay?
Sadly, in this case I do think you make a valid point. I've been thinking the same thing, that staff keep being kind enough to show leniency to permanently banned users only for those users to get permanently banned all over again soon after. It doesn't seem to produce successful outcomes.
Note: This is different in cases where the permanent ban was unwarranted in the first place.
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Permanent bans only work as a deterrent if “permanent” actually means permanent. The moment it becomes routine to appeal and get reinstated after some cooldown period, everyone learns the real rule is “wait it out and write a good apology,” and the punishment stops doing its job for the cases it’s supposed to be reserved for, the genuinely severe ones.
There’s also this pattern worth mentioning: someone gets permabanned, appeals months later showing “improved behavior,” gets reinstated, and then slides right back into the same conduct that got them banned in the first place. We’ve seen this enough times that it’s not really an edge case anymore, but a predictable cycle.
If Charmander was permabanned, then he should stay permabanned. If his actions weren’t permaban-worthy, then maybe we shouldn’t give users permaban that easily. Otherwise, that’s just the Vzearr situation all over again.
I think we are mistaking leniency for ingenuity and naivety.
There’s also this pattern worth mentioning: someone gets permabanned, appeals months later showing “improved behavior,” gets reinstated, and then slides right back into the same conduct that got them banned in the first place. We’ve seen this enough times that it’s not really an edge case anymore, but a predictable cycle.
If Charmander was permabanned, then he should stay permabanned. If his actions weren’t permaban-worthy, then maybe we shouldn’t give users permaban that easily. Otherwise, that’s just the Vzearr situation all over again.
I think we are mistaking leniency for ingenuity and naivety.
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For the record, I think the idea itself that any ban be truly 'permanent' is irrational to begin with.
We should always be open to appeal. I prefer the term 'indefinite'.
It's an indication that we will not let them back unless something changes, whereas any timed ban expires on its own even if the circumstances remain exactly the same then. From that perspective, I do think they have a purpose even if they can be appealed.
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If said appeal happens several times by now and they've been doing the exact same thing that causes them to be banned in the first place, they don't deserve anymore chances. They themselves need to prove that they've gotten better and will shape up, and if they don't they've essentially betrayed the trust of other staff members who had to deal with their behavior and resort to banning them in the first place. There's giving second chances, and there's just being completely ignorant to the issue at hand.
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If you find their repeat behavior reason to immediately deny their appeal, I'd find that perfectly logical.
My problem is with the idea of not allowing an appeal to be made at all. Beyond being reasonable and kind, that runs into actual logical issues such as someone being proven definitely innocent but us not accepting that fact because we already decided they're not allowed to appeal.
The only exception to me would be actual spam, in which case of course we'd have to ban them from posting their appeal for practical reasons.
The only policy along the lines of banning future appeals that I might even potentially support would be becoming somewhat strict on what we consider 'spam' for appeals, like once a month or year.
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- Thread starter
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It seems like @Soulking22334 is being very rude and condescending within the following thread. A warning is probably in order.
vsbattles.com
Minor Naruto Revisions | Part 1
Susanoo was melting from Mei's ability, which btw, doesn't have any stated heat output There's no mention in the story of the lava's temperature, so I'll assume it's much higher than normal. That's your logic. but Principle of Minimal Departure exist here. Unless something is stated, shown, or...
Mr. Bambu
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Read through it. Soulking instigated and behaved the worst of them, but once Foriaa became aware that he was dissing as a Bleach supporter, both were playing the back-and-forth. I'm acknowledging this as a mitigating factor, I don't think Foriaa's actions were even bad enough to warrant a formal rebuke, just a "please don't bother doing that in the future".It seems like @Soulking22334 is being very rude and condescending within the following thread. A warning is probably in order.
Minor Naruto Revisions | Part 1
Susanoo was melting from Mei's ability, which btw, doesn't have any stated heat output There's no mention in the story of the lava's temperature, so I'll assume it's much higher than normal. That's your logic. but Principle of Minimal Departure exist here. Unless something is stated, shown, or...
I would agree with a formal warning to Soulking. Going to a CRT for a verse you very obviously oppose and consider yourself a rival of can be done, but rules and basic respect still must be witnessed and adhered to. This was just picking a fight.
Soulking22334
He/Him- 159
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It seems like @Soulking22334 is being very rude and condescending within the following thread. A warning is probably in order.
Minor Naruto Revisions | Part 1
Susanoo was melting from Mei's ability, which btw, doesn't have any stated heat output There's no mention in the story of the lava's temperature, so I'll assume it's much higher than normal. That's your logic. but Principle of Minimal Departure exist here. Unless something is stated, shown, or...
https://vsbattles.com/threads/minor-naruto-revisions-part-1.192741/post-7813117
I think I was being respectful until something happened involving someone
I think he deserved it ,he started jumping in, launching insults, and mocking me based on my personal preferences(i am a bleach fan so he start using it as a hook) because he found my opinion of what he said frustrating.
Soulking22334
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read my replys before post 52 i was respectful
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I think a warning for @Soulking22334 is fine.
We can informally tell @Foriaa to try and be more careful about instigating too.
We can informally tell @Foriaa to try and be more careful about instigating too.
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I agree with Bambu
Mr. Bambu
Suffer-Not-Injustice Bambu
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Yeah, but the rest of the conversation was also basically respectful. You went off track when you started being condescending towards Foriaa's logic, and it devolved from there. I read the thread already.
Soulking22334
He/Him- 159
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Yes, I know I lost my temper and did what I did ,I’m not denying it. What I’m saying is that condemning me and blaming me doesn’t make sense, and it doesn’t make sense for him to be advised to avoid the issue from now on. either we both get punished, or neither of us does.
You’ll understand why I got frustrated because, as soon as he found out I was a Bleach fan, he dismissed my argument out of hand, treating it as some kind of biased attack on my part. He started straying from the context of the conversation and saying things that had nothing to do with the discussion. He doesn’t even want to discuss what I’m saying in terms of the bigger picture, instead, he’s just mocking me pointlessly.
https://vsbattles.com/threads/minor-naruto-revisions-part-1.192741/post-7813171
Plus, even during the heated exchange, I responded to him politely on the subjects under debate.
I don't think he should get off scot-free while I'm the only one left to deal with this.
The first to start is the most unjust.
