Rosalina vs Silver the Hedgehog vs Sans

[Adamjensen2030]

Round 1: No prep time

Round 2: Prep time, including power-ups, outside help, etc

Who wins and why?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Round 1: Rosalina blitzes and curbstomps. Silver blitzes Sans.

Round 2: Funny thing is, Sans should be able to stomp if the other two still didn't blitz him to high hell.

 

[Adamjensen2030]

Round 1: Rosalina blitzes and curbstomps. Silver blitzes Sans.
Round 2: Funny thing is, Sans should be able to stomp if the other two still didn't blitz him to high hell.

Assuming that the battle in round 1 only took place in the Comet Observatory I can agree with Rosalina winning since she is MFTL+ due to the Comet Observatory moving MFTL+ speeds giving her a home advantage. Outside of it I think she is at least Massively Hypersonic on foot since in Super Mario 3D World/Super Mario 3D Land she is the slowest character and I powerscale her speed to Mario which is me being nice. I spoke to a friend on the phone few days and he did agree with Rosalina only winning in the Comet Observatory and he is a big Mario fan.

Most of Rosalina's powers and abilities if not all come from her wand. If she loses her wand she is in big trouble from Silver and Sans. Silver and Sans can use Psychokinesis/Telekinesis to disarm her. If she can protect herself from losing her wand she would most likely win.

Do you have any idea how fast Sans is assuming we use high ends?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Sans is MHS+.

Also, no. Not in the slightest. You're using game mechanics to do your powerscaling (I guess Eggman is faster than Sonic then), and even then, Mario/Bowser is the one with the MFTL+ feat. On foot. Rosalina in general is far superior to all of them. Your friend, however much a Mario fan, isn't a community of experienced vs debaters. Heck. Rosalina may be upgraded again from 76.7 trillion C to 352 trillion C.

False again, with the wand thing. Where did you even get that from? There is zero canon proving what you said.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Sorry if that sounded rude btw.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Sans is MHS+.

Yeah no. Sans is extremely beyond MHS+, but to an unknown degree.

Absolutely nowhere near MFTL+, though. Which screws him if someone of that speed wants to blitz him.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

You know what I meant, Azzy

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I couldn't resist the urge to correct you based on semantics, though.

;^)

 

[Adamjensen2030]

Sans is MHS+.
Also, no. Not in the slightest. You're using game mechanics to do your powerscaling (I guess Eggman is faster than Sonic then), and even then, Mario/Bowser is the one with the MFTL+ feat. On foot. Rosalina in general is far superior to all of them. Your friend, however much a Mario fan, isn't a community of experienced vs debaters. Heck. Rosalina may be upgraded again from 76.7 trillion C to 352 trillion C.

False again, with the wand thing. Where did you even get that from? There is zero canon proving what you said.

I also ask questions for evidence as well. Since you seem to know a lot about Mario characters I trust that you can give me the right answers.

My conclusions about Rosalina's wand is that it is her standard weapon that she uses to fight her enemies. Have you seen her fight without it?

I'm not even sure myself 100% if it's game mechanics or not but consistencies in Mario games do help.

I also agreed with my friend that Mario characters can beat Sonic characters under specific circumstances.

Psychokinesis is the ability to move objects with the power of one's mind. Rosalina's shields can protect her from the universe reset even though in the SMG ending we haven't seen her use her shield so I'll assume that she did. Her shields do protect her from physical attacks but not from attacks or grabs within the shield.

My friend also said this:

The Comet Observatory is a device that allows Rosalina to travel through space at MFTL+. The Comet Observatory also concentrates the Grand Stars at it's core. Since Rosalina controls the Comet Observartory, she also controls the Grand Star Core which gives her a home advantage especially when the Lumas live there to help her fight against her enemies.

You're not rude at all. I know that we can have a civil discussion.

 

[Ryukama]

There is nothing at all that indicates Rosalina is dependent on her wand and is powerless without it. Even if you want to assume she requires that for a universal reset, she can physically overpower Silver and Sans as as well scaling to Grand Star Bowser.

Also MFTL+ Rosalina comes from the fact she's far superior than Mario or Bowser, characters who dodge attacks that tagged ships calculated to be over 76 trillion c. Again there is no evidence she needs the Comet Observatory to be that fast and the CO has nothing to even do with her rating.

 

[Adamjensen2030]

There is nothing at all that indicates Rosalina is dependent on her wand and is powerless without it. Even if you want to assume she requires that for a universal reset, she can physically overpower Sans as well scaling to Grand Star Bowser.
Also MFTL+ Rosalina comes from the fact she's far superior than Mario or Bowser, characters who dodge attacks that tagged ships calculated to be over 76 trillion c. Again there is no evidence she needs the Comet Observatory to be that fast and the CO has nothing to even do with her rating.

I played Super Mario Galaxy 1 and 2 and I'm up to collecting 120 Green Stars. I judge the characters by evidence aka cutscenes, feats and offical information about Mario characters confirmed by Miyamoto. Anything that Miyamoto says about Mario is canon I take his word for it.

Keep in mind that I am not angry. I do like to have a civil discussion.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Aight. Cool. Good to know we're still being civil. You know I think you're cool, @AJ.

Anyway, on to "business." Your speed evidence. Not only that, but on this site, you have to go by the profiles.

I haven't seen Sonic fight without his fur. Does that mean his fur is what gives him City level durability? No.

Yes. It's game mechanics. Just as much game mechanics as Kirby barely being able to outrun an apple yet can go toe to toe with a ship that crosses universes in a second.

Funny enough, the galaxy fighters blitz Sonic characters other than the obvious Solaris and Time Eater. However, people like Toad are getting murderstomped.

Again, go by the profiles here. There is no evidence that she uses shields to make her durability Low 2-C. She's Low 2-C all the way around. Also, I know what TK is.

I agree that the comet observatory is much faster than the cast and gives a home-field advantage. Doesn't stop Rosalina from not needing it.

 

[Ryukama]

And? Miyamoto never said Rosalina needs her wand to do her powers and can't do anything without them. The official Mario Galaxy guidebook goes to great depth about Rosalina's powers and her overall control over the universe. Would they not have included something as important as she's powerless without her wand and has none of this cosmic ability without it?

And you're not using cutscenes and feats. You're using her gameplay being slower than the other charcters, when in the lore itself Rosalina should be far superior to them.

Again,

• Nothing supports Rosalina requiring her wand for a universal reset.

• Even assuming her wand is needed she can physically overpower these people with her raw strength via feats and scaling

• She scales to people with MFTL+ feats. There is once more no indication she requires the Comet Observatory to be this fast and the CO is completely irrelevant to why she has that rating.

 

[Adamjensen2030]

Aight. Cool. Good to know we're still being civil. You know I think you're cool, @AJ.
Anyway, on to "business." Your speed evidence. Not only that, but on this site, you have to go by the profiles.

I haven't seen Sonic fight without his fur. Does that mean his fur is what gives him City level durability? No.

Yes. It's game mechanics. Just as much game mechanics as Kirby barely being able to outrun an apple yet can go toe to toe with a ship that crosses universes in a second.

Funny enough, the galaxy fighters blitz Sonic characters other than the obvious Solaris and Time Eater. However, people like Toad are getting murderstomped.

Again, go by the profiles here. There is no evidence that she uses shields to make her durability Low 2-C. She's Low 2-C all the way around. Also, I know what TK is.

I agree that the comet observatory is much faster than the cast and gives a home-field advantage. Doesn't stop Rosalina from not needing it.

Thanks for the compliment. I appreciate it.

Sonic does fight with his speed, especially his spindashes.

Do you also assume that if Character A can endure a universal reset means that their attack potency is also Universal level+ How do you also judge and confirm tiers for specific characters?

I do believe that Vsbattles Wikia information about characters are unbiased and that they are open to others making threads about upgrading/downgrading characters depending on their feats.

I do believe that Rosalina can use the Comet Observatory to give herself a home advantage, after all why fight outside the Comet Observatory?

 

[Adamjensen2030]

And? Miyamoto never said Rosalina needs her wand to do her powers and can't do anything without them. The official Mario Galaxy guidebook goes to great depth about Rosalina's powers and her overall control over the universe. Would they not have included something as important as she's powerless without her wand and has none of this cosmic ability without it?
And you're not using cutscenes and feats. You're using her gameplay being slower than the other charcters, when in the lore itself Rosalina should be far superior to them.

Again,

• Nothing supports Rosalina requiring her wand for a universal reset.

• Even assuming her wand is needed she can physically overpower these people with her raw strength via feats and scaling

• She scales to people with MFTL+ feats. There is once more no indication she requires the Comet Observatory to be this fast and the CO is completely irrelevant to why she has that rating.

So you're suggesting that Rosalina is powerful on her own and that her wand makes her more powerful?

I respect Miyamoto he makes awesome Mario games I think he should be more direct about Mario characters abilities, powers and their feats. IMO he is the number one video game director.

Gameplay is easy to judge and find evidence. I do know that Sonic in his games chooses not to run faster than light since if he does that then Sonic games would be unplayable.

If Miyamoto did say exactly that Rosalina can attack without her wand/fly on her own at MFTL+ speeds/etc then I take his word for it.

 

[Ryukama]

Of course I respect Miyamoto's word, however he never says Rosalina needs her wand for her powers. And the official guidebook which goes into great detail of Rosalina's powers never mentions this. Nothing in the game itself suggests this.

I guess I now need Yuji Naka to tell me Sonic doesn't need his fur to have City level durability.

And again Rosalina scales to people who have MFTL+ feats. You don't need explicit WoG in order to believe she doesn't require the Comet Observatory to be that fast. Again, it's like saying since Yuji never said Sonic has City level durability without his fur, I have to discard the fact he scales to City levels.

Nothing at all suggests this idea that Rosalina is powerless without her wand. You can't hold this assertion and expect me and Miyamoto himself to disprove it. You yourself have to prove the claim that Rosalina needs the wand to perform all her feats and powerscaling. Until then, we assume she's this powerful on her own. Even if we don't assume this, again Rosalina still wins.

 

[Adamjensen2030]

Of course I respect Miyamoto's word, however he never says Rosalina needs her wand for her powers. And the official guidebook which goes into great detail of Rosalina's powers never mentions this. Nothing in the game itself suggests this.
I guess I now need Yuji Naka to tell me Sonic doesn't need his fur to have City level durability.

And again Rosalina scales to people who have MFTL+ feats. You don't need explicit WoG in order to believe she doesn't require the Comet Observatory to be that fast. Again, it's like saying since Yuji never said Sonic has City level durability without his fur, I have to discard the fact he scales to City levels.

Nothing at all suggests this idea that Rosalina is powerless without her wand. You can't hold this assertion and expect me and Miyamoto himself to disprove it. You yourself have to prove the claim that Rosalina needs the wand to perform all her feats and powerscaling. Until then, we assume she's this powerful on her own. Even if we don't assume this, again Rosalina still wins.

Sonic always has his fur on him where Rosalina needs to carry her wand around in which she always does.

Direct WoG does help explain characters better.

I do believe that she scales to Galaxy Bowser and is superior to him.

My intentions were to learn more about the character and get correct information. I'm not here to start a Flame War.

I'm also very thankful for the information that you and the others are sharing.

I have nothing against you and the others for thinking that Rosalina wins.

 

[Ryukama]

Of course. I don't care how powerful someone thinks a fictional character is when it really comes down to it. I have nothing negative against someone just for disagreeing with me and I understand you're the same.

However still nothing indicates Rosalina is powerless without her wand. If you want to make that claim, you need to prove it. Not expect Miyamoto or I to disprove the claim. That's how providing proof works.

And again one of the perfect opportunities to greatly explain Rosalina's powers, yet they never mention this theory that she's a slow, powerless glass cannon without her wand. It more likely than not just isn't true.

But if scaling her to Galaxy Bowser, she still wins without her wand.

 

[Adamjensen2030]

Of course. I don't care how powerful someone thinks a fictional character is when it really comes down to it. I have nothing negative against someone just for disagreeing with me and I understand you're the same.
However still nothing indicates Rosalina is powerless without her wand. If you want to make that claim, you need to prove it. Not expect Miyamoto or I to disprove the claim. That's how providing proof works.

And again one of the perfect opportunities to greatly explain Rosalina's powers, yet they never mention this theory that she's a slow, powerless glass cannon without her wand. It more likely than not just isn't true.

But if scaling her to Galaxy Bowser, she still wins without her wand.

Good to know that you understand my opinions.

Now I get it, I must be more careful about Logical fallacies especially the "Burden of proof fallacy"

I also do believe that game mechanics can or cannot be included in Death Battles to determine the outcome of the fight.

Do you know Miyamoto's email so I can contact him and ask questions about the Mario character's abilities, powers, etc?

You and the others are entitled to your own opinions.

Thanks for the information.

 

[Ryukama]

I have no idea what Miyamoto's email is, he likely wouldn't respond and this site greatly discourages and has a rule made for users to not bother authors with VS related questions. So I'd just leave that as it is.

 

[Adamjensen2030]

I have no idea what Miyamoto's email is, he likely wouldn't respond and this site greatly discourages and has a rule made for users to not bother authors with VS related questions. So I'd just leave that as it is.

Sorry that I asked about Miyamoto's email.

I learned a lot about Rosalina's powers.

 

[Ryukama]

No problem.

And I'm glad you feel like you got something good from here, but you are of course free to still disagree if you wish.

 

[Adamjensen2030]

No problem.
And I'm glad you feel like you got something good from here, but you are of course free to still disagree if you wish.

I do highly recommend this website for anyone who wants to know more about certain character's feats, abilities and powers. I did my research and I can confirm that the research for a lot of characters are unbiased. Also even if any characters information are incorrect that's why threads exist, to talk about upgrading/downgrading characters and debunking wanks and downplays.

Either way I think the admins here are very reasonable and respectful.

 

[Ryukama]

I'm extremely glad to hear your kind words.

 

[Adamjensen2030]

I'm extremely glad to hear your kind words.

Thank you.

Either way I think I have said everything I had in mind for now.

I'd say we close this thread.

 

[Ryukama]

Well let's see what others have to say before closing.

 

[Adamjensen2030]

Well let's see what others have to say before closing.

I forgot to mention why Silver wins IMO.

Let's say that Rosalina starts the battle by throwing star bits at him he can use psychokinesis to grab them and throw them back at her. Silver can also teleport away from her attacks and use Chaos Control to time travel to when Rosalina was a baby. He time traveled on his own in Sonic Rivals 1 and 2 and I have proof:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_Rivals

Suddenly, Silver appears from the future, and tells Shadow he needs to get to Eggman first.


https://www.ssbwiki.com/List_of_SSB4_trophies_(Sonic_the_Hedgehog_series)

"Silver the Hedgehog comes from the future— from a world that seems to have been laid to waste. He manipulated space-time to travel to the present where he meets Sonic and friends, and now he's putting his telekinetic talents to use in an effort to save the future world he calls home."


You see that? Manipulating space-time is reality warping. Chaos emeralds can reality warp.

Also the SSBWIKI quotes is talking about Silver time travelling on his own in Sonic Rivals 1 and 2 since Sonic 06 never happened.

Before you say that Silver didn't time travel on his own in Sonic 06. Remember that game was retconned so the events in that game never happened even though Sonic characters remember them. Also Mephiles was erased from existence so Silver had no one to rely on to time travel so he did time travel by himself.

Sonic 06 came out on November 14 2006 while Sonic Rivals came out on November 16 2006 so Sonic Rivals events happened after Sonic 06 events got retconned.

 

[Elione-Arisu]

It looks like everyone forgot sans was in this xD

 

[Cropfist]

This should be closed.

 

[Ryukama]

I agree. This would be a stomp match by the site's standards.