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"Retcon"
- Thread starter Wiggins1
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- the one above all
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Obviously all Tier 0s are beyond time and space. TOAA was "retconned" because Marvel's definition of omniverse (which is what made him straight up Tier 0 in the first place, even if written by interns as opposed to mainline comics staff) was retconned to something much, much less impressive in scale.
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He was listed as tier 0 before due to the feat "created the omniverse"
Back in those time, every Marvel fan assumed that "The Omniverse is everything in Marvel"
So he got the tier 0
But now, Marvel has confirmed that Omniverse is not everything as some characters were able to journeying outside of it
Conclusion : TOAA didnt created "Everything" in Marvel. He got the tier 0 for existing in a realm that beyond all of the time-space of Marvel verse, so we assume he exist beyond infinite dimension, heh, his 1-A tier
Back in those time, every Marvel fan assumed that "The Omniverse is everything in Marvel"
So he got the tier 0
But now, Marvel has confirmed that Omniverse is not everything as some characters were able to journeying outside of it
Conclusion : TOAA didnt created "Everything" in Marvel. He got the tier 0 for existing in a realm that beyond all of the time-space of Marvel verse, so we assume he exist beyond infinite dimension, heh, his 1-A tier
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Well, not quite. Marvel used to define "omniverse" as all of fiction and reality combined. (It is ridiculous to claim that one of their characters had influence over all of fiction outside of Marvel, and even more ridiculous to claim that it had influence over reality, but nevertheless.) Currently it is apparently basically just another word for a multiverse.
However, the One-Above-All was still stated to be beyond the concepts of time and space, which places it as "At least 1-A", as that is our requirement for the tier.
However, the One-Above-All was still stated to be beyond the concepts of time and space, which places it as "At least 1-A", as that is our requirement for the tier.
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Nah. The Marvel handbook explicitly used to say that the Omniverse was all of fiction and reality combined.
It also used to say that the One-Above-All created the Omniverse.
The latter statement is patently insane, megalomaniacal, or idiotic, but nevertheless, it was still there.
It also used to say that the One-Above-All created the Omniverse.
The latter statement is patently insane, megalomaniacal, or idiotic, but nevertheless, it was still there.
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Marvel contradicts itself on what they're Made-up words mean all the time.
Sometimes they have Megaverse, which is infinite multiverses, and Omniverse, which is infinite Megaverses.
At other times, the Omniverse is just infinite Multiverses.
According to a Marvel Guidebook, Marvel is all of a Megaverse and DC is all of another, and they are inside a larger Omniverse.
Marvel.com still says that the Omniverse is al of fiction and reality, even though it's not everything.
It's because of things like this that we can't really use words like "Megaverse, Omniverse and Metaverse" to determine character Tiers. I mean, a Megaversal char would be at least High 2-A and at most Low 1-B, depending on how "A multiverse" is defined in that story, and Omniverse is even worst.
Sometimes they have Megaverse, which is infinite multiverses, and Omniverse, which is infinite Megaverses.
At other times, the Omniverse is just infinite Multiverses.
According to a Marvel Guidebook, Marvel is all of a Megaverse and DC is all of another, and they are inside a larger Omniverse.
Marvel.com still says that the Omniverse is al of fiction and reality, even though it's not everything.
It's because of things like this that we can't really use words like "Megaverse, Omniverse and Metaverse" to determine character Tiers. I mean, a Megaversal char would be at least High 2-A and at most Low 1-B, depending on how "A multiverse" is defined in that story, and Omniverse is even worst.
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Off-topic Funfact: As long as there are at most countably infinite universes in each of at most countably infinite multiverses, the megaverse (with the infinite multiverses description) would not be larger than a single multiverse with countably infinite universes.Matthew Schroeder said:
Larger here in the sense of "one thing is larger than another if it contains more universes".
So one could argue that a megaverse with that definition is actually just 2-A, which is funny since the authors certainly wanted it to be something higher than that.
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The hierarchy of verses is generally ranked like this:
Universe  Multiverse  Metaverse/Megaverse  Xenoverse  Hyperverse
A verse is basically a template of existence, a sort of "canvas" where existence/reality can "exist" or be "real". Each higher level containing at least literally an infinite number of lower level ones.
So we know a full complex 11-dimensional is supposedly a xenoverse, 12 to meta-infinity (and beyond) is a hyperverse. Omniverse is traditionally above a hyperverse, but due to recent advancement in knowledge "omniverse" has now become quasi-religious and under-defined and too general of a term to be useful in any meaningful sense (like how the word 'god' is now). And there may be a higher verse level above hyperverse we may be able to conceive yet. Such paradigm would be contingent on if there will be another philosophical revolution.
So we know an average universe has 3 dimensions, multiple universes (Low Multiverse level) is 1000 universes, so a typical multiverse I'd say would have 4-5 dimensions and contain literally infinite universes, a low metaverse or megaverse would have 6-7 (and containing infinite multiverses), a high metaverse/xenoverse to low xenoverse has 8-9 dimensions, and finally a high xenoverse would be 10-11 dimensional, with the entire full complex 11-D mutliverse an aspect of a 12-dimensional structural continuum, with an infinite number of these within a low part of a hyperverse. (think of limbo when cosmic armor superman touched it)
Think of a verse as the circle or square, it is just a lower dimensional aspect of a higher dimensional structure which is the cylinder, and there is an infinte number of these cylinders within a +1-level verse.
Universe  Multiverse  Metaverse/Megaverse  Xenoverse  Hyperverse
A verse is basically a template of existence, a sort of "canvas" where existence/reality can "exist" or be "real". Each higher level containing at least literally an infinite number of lower level ones.
So we know a full complex 11-dimensional is supposedly a xenoverse, 12 to meta-infinity (and beyond) is a hyperverse. Omniverse is traditionally above a hyperverse, but due to recent advancement in knowledge "omniverse" has now become quasi-religious and under-defined and too general of a term to be useful in any meaningful sense (like how the word 'god' is now). And there may be a higher verse level above hyperverse we may be able to conceive yet. Such paradigm would be contingent on if there will be another philosophical revolution.
So we know an average universe has 3 dimensions, multiple universes (Low Multiverse level) is 1000 universes, so a typical multiverse I'd say would have 4-5 dimensions and contain literally infinite universes, a low metaverse or megaverse would have 6-7 (and containing infinite multiverses), a high metaverse/xenoverse to low xenoverse has 8-9 dimensions, and finally a high xenoverse would be 10-11 dimensional, with the entire full complex 11-D mutliverse an aspect of a 12-dimensional structural continuum, with an infinite number of these within a low part of a hyperverse. (think of limbo when cosmic armor superman touched it)
Think of a verse as the circle or square, it is just a lower dimensional aspect of a higher dimensional structure which is the cylinder, and there is an infinte number of these cylinders within a +1-level verse.
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If TOAA is the omnipotent avatar of Stan Lee or Jack Kirby, doesn't that mean he 'retconned' himself into something less? Afaik Tier-0 beings are immune to retcon either because usually they are the ones doing it (at least the real life aspect of them) and true omnipotence includes author authority and meta-fictional powers. So listing another tier in the key is pointless, if he can simply make himself a 0 again unconditionally.
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You are thinking of random made-up terms as something official, and a character as able to be its own author. The OAA was retconned due to that its tier was entirely dependent on Marvel's definition of an "omniverse".
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Didn't Dark LK once said he interpreted the previous Marvel Omniverse without using 4th Wall breaks?
I believe he explained it as being so incomprehensably large and infinite that it had it's own versions of "Real Life" inside it.
Regardless, even without it, I believe that the Marvel Omniverse was meant to be so grand that even the Beyonder Realm was nothing to it's wholeness, and TOAA created it all.
I hope another 1-A being appears in Marvel, so that this whole One-Above-All dillema can be put to rest.
I believe he explained it as being so incomprehensably large and infinite that it had it's own versions of "Real Life" inside it.
Regardless, even without it, I believe that the Marvel Omniverse was meant to be so grand that even the Beyonder Realm was nothing to it's wholeness, and TOAA created it all.
I hope another 1-A being appears in Marvel, so that this whole One-Above-All dillema can be put to rest.
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Technically, the One-Above-All was stated to be in a level of existence where even the concept of power itself is meaningless. As this was never retconned out of continuity, this still applies even today.
http://s172.photobucket.com/user/guy222_photos/media/GuardiansOfTheGalaxy50-30.jpg.html
http://s172.photobucket.com/user/guy222_photos/media/GuardiansOfTheGalaxy50-30.jpg.html
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