Reinhard vs Kumoko

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

I don't know because if Reinhard gets bored he might just take Schreiber's Briah of "being faster than everything" and Machina's Briah "One-Punch Man".

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

>I never considered this, but if Kumoko is fighting a being with high-godly Regenerationn, she might as well have it too simply due to Grudge.

Isn't this a NFL?

Lets say, she gets hit by Machina's Briah, would she get back? Or is this ability enough to defend from soul damage that negs regen and can bypass resistance?

 

[Everything12]

Pretty sure that isn't the case as draining through grudge wouldn't get to the Regenerationn from Soul destruction of Mid-Godly while High-Godly is just a complete Erasure on all levels of existence.

Plus Reinhard has Screiber's Briah which through Law Manipulation makes its so Reinhard is ALWAYS faster then the enemy, and given enough time he will bring it and the other Braihs out, one which Erases the Soul on contact, and one that launches a attack that never misses.

 

[NoGround]

Machina's Briah is definitely a win-move, to be honest.

Okay my vote is on Reinhard. Kumoko cannot deal with Existence Erasure in this fashion. Once again, Kumoko is negated by Existence Erasure. Also, yeah I was wrong about the regen feat. >.>

 

[NoGround]

I have to wonder, how do the protagonists of a series succeed against hax like this?

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

True. Though if he sees her soul and she's powerful he might just want to grab her and put a Stigmata on her tbh.

This would be a very interesting way to end things tho

also

>Machina's Briah is definitely a win-move, to be honest

Didn't you said she has precog or something like that? With this she can obviously dodge Machina if he gets summoned in the battle

 

[NoGround]

Wait is that how it works? Machina is just a summon and not an extension of his abilities? In that case Machina probably couldn't deal with Kumoko. Kumoko has Future Vision and extremely enhanced perception abilities.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

I have to wonder, how do the protagonists of a series succeed against hax like this?

Well he doesn't ever get beaten in this key or in Kei's Route (except by Mercurius), lol. It's only when the protagonist and him both get huge power boosts that they can contend on even ground.

 

[Everything12]

The protagonist wins either by having a sword that passively destroys Reinhard dead castle which is important to his plan so they retreated, or by the two ascending to High 1-A level where Hax is nothing and it's all about potency.

Machina is a summon but Reinhard can also use his power himself if needed, plus if Reinhard summons Machina he will also summon Screiber who has the mentioned always faster power plus standard Soul damaging attacks.

 

[NoGround]

Machina is a summon but Reinhard can also use his power himself if needed.

This is key. Does Reinhard have a way of dealing with Kumoko's soul transfer, which essentially means that attacks landed on her will only land on one of her clones? Kumoko is highly resistant to mind and soul manipulation, as well. Direct Soul Destruction is likely to get resisted.

 

[Everything12]

The Soul Damage of the Spear does do Soul damage in the hundreds of thousands of potency, but yes, Reinhard himself can indeed use the Erasure and Always Faster Abilities himself.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

He doesn't use them in character though and he'd much rather just call his Commanders rather than use it himself.

 

[Everything12]

Not really, he hasn't been shown to summon the Commander's to fight his own battles, if he does find a opponent who can give him the challenge he seeks then he's much more likely to use the powers himself then call on others to fight it for him.

 

[NoGround]

His Commanders would be unable to deal with Kumoko, though, so Reinhard would likely step in.

Does "Always Faster" account for dimensional shifts and teleportation? Sure, he can move faster but his opponent technically isn't moving, simply transporting from one spot to the next with no physical components involved. Furthermore, if the attack does hit her, does Always Faster still account for the fact that her actual soul is no longer in the body that was hit?

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

The Soul Damage of the Spear does do Soul damage in the hundreds of thousands of potency, but yes, Reinhard himself can indeed use the Erasure and Always Faster Abilities himself.

I forgot that tiny little detail about him using their Briahs instead of summoning then >.>

Also, there is stated repeatedly in the novel his soul stock is in the millions as he has been consuming everyone that died in the war, plus the 800k he absorbed in Berlin

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

He has though, he used them for his entertainment against Ren in Gladsheim that one time. The only time he's ever used them is against Mercurius.

 

[Everything12]

Always faster only really increases his speed to always be faster then his opponents speed, so I doubt any of those will effect it.

 

[NoGround]

Considering the size of the continent in Kumo Desu in comparison with the size of Kumoko's own soul, I'd probably put Kumoko's soul within the range of being able to withstand his spear at least once. That is, if he can hit her main body.

I'm leaning towards inconclusive simply due to Reinhard probably being unable to actually hit Kumoko due to soul transfer and Dimensional manipulation/instant teleportation.

 

[Everything12]

I guess I'll go with Inconclusive as well, Reinhard does have ways to deal with her but she's slippery enough not to get hit by them.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

I'm personally leaning on Rein. NF makes him able to blitz Kumoko and MVS will end things easily. He will pull these two when he notices she starts running away.

 

[Zoey_of_Scadrial]

Though the Spear should hit with at least 3-A due to taking out Methuselah.

 

[Eganergo]

Vote counted.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Though the Spear should hit with at least 3-A due to taking out Methuselah.

That was a full power IkaBey Rein, not this one restricted by the swastikas that didn't even kill Ren despite having like 7 swastikas open

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

I'll go with incon

 

[Zoey_of_Scadrial]

True, but he still should have 3-A Durability. Valerian is considered to have 3-A Durability. Kumoko seems to only be Mountain level in both keys.

 

[NoGround]

His key indicates that his body is at least Mountain level, but on a different note, it has already been established that Kumoko wouldn't be able to do much physically to him at this point, anyway. If she was able to do anything, it would be direct soul damage through her eyes via Eyes of Grudge or Eyes of Annihilation. Considering his immortality keys via his Briah, it renders Kumoko incapable of killing Rein.

At the same time, Rein does not have the same mastery of dimensional travel and teleportation that Kumoko does, on top of body-swapping, which is why I voted for inconclusive. Rein could chase Kumoko for eternity and never land a hit, and Kumoko can keep stealing his power for herself with Eyes of Grudge but never fatally wound him.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

He kinda can teleport her inside Glads if he pleases and blitz her with NF so him not landing a hit it very unlikely

 

[Zoey_of_Scadrial]

Also didn't Longinus have the power to always hit even when sealed, always hitting in a way that transcends all logic, overcoming all distance. Or is that only when fully unsealed?

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

I'm pretty sure that is a no-no in this key as Ren dodged that thing when only 7 swastikas were open

 

[Zoey_of_Scadrial]

He was hit by Valerian in Kasumi's Route. Though I guess that doesn't prove that it can't be dodged.

 

[Zoey_of_Scadrial]

I don't remember Kei's Route as much as I remember the other three though.

 

[NoGround]

My vote is cast, I was just clarifying for Zouke, particularly the fact that Kumoko can't really do anything to finish of Rein's immortality or high-godly Regenerationn due to his equipment, so Durability is a pretty moot point.

On the other side of things, Kumoko has the capabilities of interrupting teleportation magic of her opponents while being a master of dimensional travel and magic herself, using it for spatial storage, travel, teleportation, and even weaving portals into the thread of her clothing to make them nigh-indestructible via physical means.

Oh? Kuro is preparing to teleport? Perhaps he's judged that so much distance has opened up between us that he won't be able to catch up without leaping through space? Eh? But, even so, that's a bad move you know?

Kuro activates the teleport. He's trying to link space to an area right in front of me.

ÒÇîGuhah!?ÒÇì

However, I interfere with the technique. Due to that the technique is disturbed, with the resulting distortion causing Kuro to take damage as he tries to jump through space. It's like he was about to jump through an open door, but then the door was locked shut and he carried on moving and collided with it. The situation is completely different, but it's something along those lines. Incidentally, the cause of the door being locked was my interference with the technique.

 

[Zoey_of_Scadrial]

Yeah, its just when I think of Reinhard my mind usually goes to his Unrestricted, Unsealed, or Atziluth forms. I tend to forget the exact capabilities of his sealed form.

 

[Bigideas-Baggins]

I doubt interrupting teleportation magic is going to cut it, considering that glads's teleportation is high-1-A, if I recall correctly

 

[NoGround]

Ah, I misunderstood. If Rein was using it with his own power and not with Glads, probably would be interrupted. Glads being a 1-A construct trounces that.