Regeneration Question

[Phoenks]

So basically I'm just curious about how regeneration levels are applied in some specific cases.

For example, if a character can regenerate from their concept (which is Type 1 in the verse), information (type 2), and their body being erased, however, they still possess their soul and mind (due to certain mechanics in the verse), what regeneration would that be?

I asked someone off-site about this, and they told me it isn't actually regeneration at all under the standards. Instead saying it was a form of NEP.

I was very confused regarding that answer so I am asking here.

 

[Magicomethkuon]

So basically I'm just curious about how regeneration levels are applied in some specific cases.

For example, if a character can regenerate from their concept (which is Type 1 in the verse), information (type 2), and their body being erased, however, they still possess their soul and mind (due to certain mechanics in the verse), what regeneration would that be?

I asked someone off-site about this, and they told me it isn't actually regeneration at all under the standards. Instead saying it was a form of NEP.

I was very confused regarding that answer so I am asking here.

If they could regenerate from just the soul and mind, Mid-Godly is happening or I missed a fundamental of your question somewhere. The standards for High-Godly in this forum determined that it is regeneration after losing Soul, Mind, Body and one other fundamental of the self. In your example, three vital aspects of the whole disappeared. If these three are all elements that the character cannot exist without, I can't see why losing Concept and Information can't be equal in value to losing Body and Soul.

 

[First_Witch]

Regeneration is applied based on what was left of you when the regeneration happened. Because Mind and Soul were explicitly stated to still exist before the regeneration process, it would be Low Godly. The fact that they regenerated from a concept does not automatically make it High-Godly. It would grant immortality based on a Type 1 Concept though.

 

[Phoenks]

So in other word, regenerating 3 aspects of yourself is Mid-Godly, and regenerating more than 3 is High-Godly?

It's kind of hard to explain the specifics of this scenario. But basically, the character in question has a soul/mind that is like 1-A, and it is completely separate from their physical form.

However that physical form still possesses its own concept, essence (information), history, memory, etc.

They can regenerate this form freely because their soul still exist above. Even if every aspect of that form is erased.

 

[Magicomethkuon]

I think that would be open for debate, between my interpretation and First Witch's over there. The requirement for a Mid-Godly rating in this forum equals is the erasure of three aspects, one of which is far less abstract than the ones we are dealing with here. Because the one for High-Godly is four aspects, each of them being otherwise vital to the character, there are grounds to believe that the feat as spoken of here could be Mid-Godly.

They can regenerate this form freely because their soul still exist above. Even if every aspect of that form is erased.

Also what you are describing here would instead be grounds for Type 9 Immortality to me. Mid-Godly Regen being a byproduct of it. But do tell me, has the true form above displayed the same feats of regeneration? Or is it only for the lower-order vessel?

 

[Phoenks]

But do tell me, has the true form above displayed the same feats of regeneration? Or is it only for the lower-order vessel?

As of now, no. But it is definitely possible as that soul/true form embodies restoration, which is the power that allows them to restore themselves from any amount of destruction.

If that was the case, it would definitely be High-Godly then, no?

 

[First_Witch]

Thats muddy and hard to determine then. The Regeneration page was obviously set up that way because 90% of fiction treats those 3 aspects as something that generally exist in the same plane of existance and abstraction, being the most common building block for someones "Being", so you will always run into definition and semantics issues for verses that do not follow the template.

A Case could be made if the "Soul" and "Mind" do not fall into our baseline definition, because obviously Names and terms have only as much meaning as we give them. So if your "Soul" in question functions completly different than our baseline understanding of Souls and is basically not much different than concepts, for example, you could argue that it being called a soul would not disqualify the character being High-Godly.

The lack of details makes this hard to determine for certain. Based solely on what you have provided, there are other possibilities, such as a Avatar (Physical body) - True Body (Soul/Mind) relationship.

 

[Magicomethkuon]

Regeneration is applied based on what was left of you when the regeneration happened. Because Mind and Soul were explicitly stated to still exist before the regeneration process, it would be Low Godly. The fact that they regenerated from a concept does not automatically make it High-Godly. It would grant immortality based on a Type 1 Concept though.

My reason to believe this is Mid-Godly is simple. On the one hand we'd have a character losing body, mind and soul. On the other hand there is one that lost concept, information and body. It would be much too arbitrary to consider that the loss of Concept and Information can't be equal in value to the loss of Mind and Soul. Unless the character has statements or a lore that supports these two being unnecessary for their continued existence. What's more, High-Godly also does not require specific parts of the being to have been erased, but a number of them. Four.

 

[Magicomethkuon]

As of now, no. But it is definitely possible as that soul/true form embodies restoration, which is the power that allows them to restore themselves from any amount of destruction.

If that was the case, it would definitely be High-Godly then, no?

For the time being, Type 9 immortality seems more accurate, safe and succinct for indexing purposes. In my opinion. But if the feats later happen for the true self as well, then I'd agree. Out of curiosity, which franchise?

 

[First_Witch]

My reason to believe this is Mid-Godly is simple. On the one hand we'd have a character losing body, mind and soul. On the other hand there is one that lost concept, information and body. It would be much too arbitrary to consider that the loss of Concept and Information can't be equal in value to the loss of Mind and Soul. Unless the character has statements or a lore that supports these two being unnecessary for their continued existence. What's more, High-Godly also does not require specific parts of the being to have been erased, but a number of them. Four.

The bolded part were not stated in the OP. The Thread was explicitly about a character regenerating their body FROM their concept. Thats Low godly taken at face value.

Again, this has nothing to do with arbitrary "Values" or, as you probably insinuate, level of abstractions you regenerate. Its squarely about what was left of you when you regenerated.

If we move away from the question for a wee bit. Imagine a 3d character with body, mind, soul and whatever abstract part you like, Concept, narrative existance, temporal existance, information particle etc. The fact that you regenerated abstract parts isn't what determines the level of regeneration. Its what was left of you when you regenerated your existance. I.e it is reasonable to assume that even if you regenerated from, lets say concept erasure that specificly erased ONLY body and concept, a argument could be made that you regenerated from your soul for example.

Obviously this stems from the inevitable issues of logical frameworks having fringe cases in which they break apart. Because naturally, you assume that with our set definitions of "Aspects of ones existance", that Erasure power levels go from Physical, Metaphysical to Abstract, so for fringe cases like this, you just gotta lay out all the details you can and get it done in a official CRT.

 

[Phoenks]

A Case could be made if the "Soul" and "Mind" do not fall into our baseline definition, because obviously Names and terms have only as much meaning as we give them. So if your "Soul" in question functions completly different than our baseline understanding of Souls and is basically not much different than concepts, for example, you could argue that it being called a soul would not disqualify the character being High-Godly.

Ah, well, you are exactly right that they don't function like souls at all. Other people in the verse have normal souls and minds, but the person who I'm talking about in particular possesses a soul that is basically transcendental over the world and thus can't really be compared at all.

Their physical body is often referred to as a vessel, because it does not contain a soul or mind like everyone else. Which in the verse, are aspects of people required to live and act.

Instead, they pretty much puppeteer this body from their true self above through spiritual links between them.

 

[Magicomethkuon]

The bolded part were not stated in the OP. The Thread was explicitly about a character regenerating their body FROM their concept. Thats Low godly taken at face value.

Again, this has nothing to do with arbitrary "Values" or, as you probably insinuate, level of abstractions you regenerate. Its squarely about what was left of you when you regenerated.

If we move away from the question for a wee bit. Imagine a 3d character with body, mind, soul and whatever abstract part you like, Concept, narrative existance, temporal existance, information particle etc. The fact that you regenerated abstract parts isn't what determines the level of regeneration. Its what was left of you when you regenerated your existance. I.e it is reasonable to assume that even if you regenerated from, lets say concept erasure that specificly erased ONLY body and concept, a argument could be made that you regenerated from your soul for example.

I understand these concepts. And although I believe that ending an abstract aspect such as a Type 1 concept is more of a feat than erasing a mind, that belief doesn't interfere with the direction of my statement. That being that these should have at least equal value from most logical perspectives. The regeneration page here self-evidently works on a basis of number of fundaments erased, and what was left of a given character. Mid-Godly has three things being erased as the requirement. Even High-Godly does not demand that nothing whatsoever must be left of a character. Just that a total of 4 aspects were erased and there's a 5th one to draw from. Much like tiers of AP, there are levels to it even within the same rating, but the character in question here has crossed the boundary of 3 aspects that the Mid-Godly rating demands.

 

[First_Witch]

Instead, they pretty much puppeteer this body from their true self above through spiritual links between them.

The lack of details makes this hard to determine for certain. Based solely on what you have provided, there are other possibilities, such as a Avatar (Physical body) - True Body (Soul/Mind) relationship.

I have a astronomically sized brain. Better get it determined in a official manner then.

 

[Phoenks]

Well, this is just for a franchise that I myself am writing. Not for the wiki.

It isn't an official thing. I was just curious what it would be on here. Because I see that the standards don't exactly outline it in the most understandable manner.

 

[First_Witch]

I understand these concepts. And although I believe that ending an abstract aspect such as a Type 1 concept is more of a feat than erasing a mind, that belief doesn't interfere with the direction of my statement. That being that these should have at least equal value from most logical perspectives. The regeneration page here self-evidently works on a basis of number of fundaments erased, and what was left of a given character. Mid-Godly has three things being erased as the requirement. Even High-Godly does not demand that nothing whatsoever must be left of a character. Just that a total of 4 aspects were erased and there's a 5th one to draw from. Much like tiers of AP, there are levels to it even within the same rating, but the character in question here has crossed the boundary of 3 aspects that the Mid-Godly rating demands.

Im like, 90% certain that they are worded that way because Fiction tends to not be completly uniform when it comes to its ideas of a characters existance. Its not about the "amount" of things deleted, its about the totallity of your existance, which are categorized as Physical Existance, Metaphysical Existance and Abstract Existance. It would be embarrasing if I were wrong, but im absolutly certain that you need to regenerate from complete erasur of your existance on all levels and things remaining of you would in fact disqualify you from High Godly. Nevermind me if I'm wrong though.

 

[Magicomethkuon]

Im like, 90% certain that they are worded that way because Fiction tends to not be completly uniform when it comes to its ideas of a characters existance. Its not about the "amount" of things deleted, its about the totallity of your existance, which are categorized as Physical Existance, Metaphysical Existance and Abstract Existance.

No dislike for your POV, but from the current contents of the page the case seems to be otherwise. And it's a decision that I understand. I'd draw attention to the part of High-Godly where the description specifies how any of the aspects must be something that the character cannot exist without. That helps when reaching the conclusion of many levels to it.

It would be embarrasing if I were wrong, but im absolutly certain that you need to regenerate from complete erasur of your existance on all levels and things remaining of you would in fact disqualify you from High Godly.

Well no, because actually,

The ability to regenerate after the erasure of body, mind, soul, and at least one other fundamental aspect of a character's existence. Such an aspect could be their place in the narrative, their history, their information (Type 2), their concept, et cetera

The at least one in the bolded segment reinforces that a character could qualify from having say, four fundamental aspects. Five. Six erased, so on so forth. The idea here is to have a clear floor but no foreseeable limit.

 

[Phoenks]

I will also mention that the information (Called "Essence" in the verse) also refers to things like history in the form of memories.

So if you erase someone's essence, all history and memory of them is erased from the world as well.

I'm unsure if that counts as another aspect on top of information, but it might.

 

[ImmortalDread]

For example, if a character can regenerate from their concept (which is Type 1 in the verse), information (type 2)

Assuming that the concept of regeneration surpasses or goes beyond the boundaries of soul and mind, then it can be classified as a form of Mid Godly regeneration.

and their body being erased, however, they still possess their soul and mind (due to certain mechanics in the verse), what regeneration would that be?

The outcome hinges on the mechanics present in the given verse and how these two aspects operate within that framework.

I asked someone off-site about this, and they told me it isn't actually regeneration at all under the standards. Instead saying it was a form of NEP.

In the absence of regeneration, the classification would be NEP type 1 aspect type 1. While the person you consulted has made a partially correct assessment by identifying it as NEP 1, it's important to note that the capability of regeneration plays a crucial role and cannot be disregarded.

Therefore, NEP 1 is not a suitable classification for this particular case.

 

[ZinnaiYama]

So in other word, regenerating 3 aspects of yourself is Mid-Godly, and regenerating more than 3 is High-Godly?

It's kind of hard to explain the specifics of this scenario. But basically, the character in question has a soul/mind that is like 1-A, and it is completely separate from their physical form.

However that physical form still possesses its own concept, essence (information), history, memory, etc.

They can regenerate this form freely because their soul still exist above. Even if every aspect of that form is erased.

I will also mention that the information (Called "Essence" in the verse) also refers to things like history in the form of memories.

So if you erase someone's essence, all history and memory of them is erased from the world as well.

I'm unsure if that counts as another aspect on top of information, but it might.

Ah, well, you are exactly right that they don't function like souls at all. Other people in the verse have normal souls and minds, but the person who I'm talking about in particular possesses a soul that is basically transcendental over the world and thus can't really be compared at all.

Their physical body is often referred to as a vessel, because it does not contain a soul or mind like everyone else. Which in the verse, are aspects of people required to live and act.

Instead, they pretty much puppeteer this body from their true self above through spiritual links between them.

So, if I'm understanding this correctly the character in question is an exceptional existence differing from the other characters within the verse, and these characters basically share the "normal" standard for the whole aspect of existence and it's the body, mind and soul, but the exceptional character has different existence aspects, so I think we should match our standards to the character' aspects of existence, and that characters aspects would be, the body, the essence, and its concept, and its soul which you described it to be a "soul that is basically transcendental over the world and thus can't really be compared at all". would be his fundamental aspect, so he'd need regenerate from his soul to qualify for High-Godly regeneration and if he only regenerated from his, body, essence, and concept, it would qualify as Mid-Godly regeneration.

I might be wrong and he might only need those three alone to get High Godly regeneration but I just matched our standards to that character' aspects of existence.

 

[ImmortalDread]

So in other word, regenerating 3 aspects of yourself is Mid-Godly, and regenerating more than 3 is High-Godly?

Nope, it is body, soul and mind (those specific aspects) and not random any other aspects.
Yes, you may count this as nitpicking, but I am clarifying for the sake of it.

But basically, the character in question has a soul/mind that is like 1-A, and it is completely separate from their physical form.

Potency of aspects are irrelevant. And the latter is already self-evident (if they are not separate, then something is wrong)

However that physical form still possesses its own concept, essence (information), history, memory, etc.

The rating of this information is type 1 and history.

They can regenerate this form freely because their soul still exist above. Even if every aspect of that form is erased.

Immortality type 8

I will also mention that the information (Called "Essence" in the verse) also refers to things like history in the form of memories.
So if you erase someone's essence, all history and memory of them is erased from the world as well.
I'm unsure if that counts as another aspect on top of information, but it might.

It counts as information type 1 and history

Ah, well, you are exactly right that they don't function like souls at all. Other people in the verse have normal souls and minds, but the person who I'm talking about in particular possesses a soul that is basically transcendental over the world and thus can't really be compared at all.

This refers to their potency.

Their physical body is often referred to as a vessel, because it does not contain a soul or mind like everyone else. Which in the verse, are aspects of people required to live and act.

So, it is an avatar? I assume, this is immortality type 9 and 4 for avatar, then.

 

[Phoenks]

Nope, it is body, soul and mind (those specific aspects) and not random any other aspects.
Yes, you may count this as nitpicking, but I am clarifying for the sake of it.

Oh, so if has to be the body, soul, and mind? That's weird.

The rating of this information is type 1 and history.

Information isn't just memories and history.

I'm saying that in the verse, "Essence" contains information, which also extends to memories and histories.

Information is like the source code of reality in the verse. If removed, it will also remove whatever it represents.

So, it is an avatar? I assume, this is immortality type 9 and 4 for avatar, then.

You could think of it like an avatar, I guess. But it specifically regenerates through the usage of Restoration. I don't think it is resurrection immortality.

 

[Magicomethkuon]

Nope, it is body, soul and mind (those specific aspects) and not random any other aspects.
Yes, you may count this as nitpicking, but I am clarifying for the sake of it.

Given the contents of the regeneration page and how high godly is stablished to work in turn, I still beg to differ on this one. Feels like semantics to insist that the three aspects being erased need to be body, soul and mind no matter what. That replacing one or another by the erasure of a concept (provided that concept is shown to be just as vital of a component for the being to exist) would not count.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Oh, so if has to be the body, soul, and mind? That's weird.

Yes, and not random other aspects.

Information isn't just memories and history.
I'm saying that in the verse, "Essence" contains information, which also extends to memories and histories.

Information is like the source code of reality in the verse. If removed, it will also remove whatever it represents.

And what exactly it represents? I need a precise context on this.

You could think of it like an avatar, I guess. But it specifically regenerates through the usage of Restoration. I don't think it is resurrection immortality.

My bad, it is not type 4 immortality, it is regeneration immortality (this is type 3, ig? ya)

 

[ImmortalDread]

Feels like semantics to insist that the three aspects being erased need to be body, soul and mind no matter what. That replacing one or another by the erasure of a concept (provided that concept is shown to be just as vital of a component for the being to exist) would not count.

You misunderstood it.

High Godly is a specific regeneration where you are required to show feats of even regenerating after destruction of one additional conceptual aspect of existence or history erasure.

Mid Godly however, it is regenerating from one additional conceptual aspect of existence or history erasure after the three main mentioned aspects are being destroyed.

 

[Magicomethkuon]

You misunderstood it.

High Godly is a specific regeneration where you are required to show feats of even regenerating after destruction of one additional conceptual aspect of existence or history erasure.

Mid Godly however, it is regenerating from one additional conceptual aspect of existence or history erasure after the three main mentioned aspects are being destroyed.

I don't think I misunderstood the idea, but I do not believe that other aspects are random or that the guidelines would still demand that they must be body, soul and mind no matter what. Not if the alternatives are shown to be just as relevant for the addressed character's continued existence. Other things such as one's concept, history, information and so on are listed in the page as well.

The ability to regenerate after the erasure of body, mind, soul, and at least one other fundamental aspect of a character's existence. Such an aspect could be their place in the narrative, their history, their information (Type 2), their concept, et cetera

Further supporting the idea that alternatives could exist, the note at the end of the page specifies that the part of the being they are regenerating from should be clarified for aspects outside the usual body, mind and soul package. I think it would be hyperfixation on semantics to consider recovery from body + mind + soul erasure a mid-godly regeneration feat but not concept, information and body. As said before from both sides of this conversation, no specific aspect is superior to another.

 

[ImmortalDread]

They are random from the perspective of VSBW (they are not mentioned in the standards), not randoms in the context of the verse. My bad for using wrong terms.
Alternatives could exist if the primary ones exist as well. Obviously, verse mechanics exists and may exclude some default fictional setting.