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Regarding Superman's speed.

Well, reacting to, and surviving blows from, Superboy Prime is most likely Plot-Induced Stupidity, but I disagree about that some extra degree of movement, while dragging Prime through a red star, would automatically scale to the flight speed, for the above mentioned reasons.
 
Even if we assumed it took Superman an entire year to travel across a galaxy, he'd be over 10,000 times faster than light. And we know it took him a considerable amount of time lower than that in order to do so.

If Superman is able to react to and fight while flying at such extreme speeds, even if very briefly, he should at least be exact baseline MFTL+. Regardless if his combat and reactions aren't on par with his flight.
 
I think that we are going around in circles. There were likely no objects to avoid in his flight path, and he did not throw trillions of punches towards Prime.

I do not see how his flight speed should automatically scale to his punching speed, especially given that we use similar speed scaling rules for DC as we do for Marvel?
 
Welp, Xcano verified that isn't needed high reactions when traveling through the galaxies. But anyway, for someone who reached another universe in second should have an incredible high acceleration, that is more related to reaction/combat speed. Superman said that he doesn't that fast in Earth to avoid colateral damage due shockwave, so he could be much faster in space.
 
Yes, technically LordXcano was correct in his calculation. We simply decided to avoid a universal rule based on his conclusions for practical reasons: Almost nobody cared about or used the previous regulation, as it made it far harder to scale any characters, and would have required a massive wiki-wide revision project to properly apply.
 
He had to have avoided or at least reacted to Prime during his flight. And he was engaging in combat while flying, and throw attacks that gave Prime somewhat difficulty in reacting to.

I do not see how someone can be capable of reacting to something and fighting while flying at millions of times faster than light yet not even be 1000 c in combat and reactions.

But if you do not want to use this feat, then that is fine of course.
 
Well, as I outlined earlier, I definitely did not have the impression that he was fighting at millions of times FTL, just that he flew that quickly.
 
I didn't say he was fighting that fast.

Superman (even if we're saying he took an entire week to do this feat) is flying at millions of times FTL.

While he is flying this fast, he is capable of reacting to objects (SBP), shortly engaging in combat and throwing attacks people who can react at such speeds are having trouble with avoiding.

The fact that he is able to do any of these things while he is flying that fast, should at least make his combat and reactions 1000 c.

However again it is up to you to decide whether to use the feat and I'm fine if you don't.
 
Supermn flew to Oa, at the center of the universe, in a timeframe of likely minutes, while fighting, struggling with, talking with, and throwing punches at Superboy Prime.

This is proof of MFTL+ Combat Speed.
 
Superman (even if we're saying he took an entire week to do this feat) is flying at millions of times FTL.

While he is flying this fast, he is capable of reacting to objects (SBP), shortly engaging in combat and throwing attacks people who can react at such speeds are having trouble with avoiding.

Where do you see either Post Crisis or Earth-Two reacting to Superboy-Prime's punches? They where not even trying to avoid or block any of the punches.

And where Post Crisis or Earth-Two had show to reacting to any objects in front of them? They were keep going in the same direction without change of direction.
 
They would have to manuever. You can't go from Earth to an unknown sun in the Andromeda Galaxy, then to the center of the universe simply by going in a straight line.

This divide between Travel and Combat Speed strikes me more and more as an attempt of downplaying and undermining feats than anything honest. Nobody does it for lower-end feats, but for MFTL+ stuff it's brought up all the time.
 
Like i had pointed out before, the only guy who was throwing punches, talking and trully fighting back in that moment was Superboy-Prime.

Post Crisis and Earth-Two instead where only focused to bring Superboy-Prime to the red sun of Krypton, nothing in the scene indicate, show or suggest that they were reacting and/or fighting in that moment and at that speed.

http://i.imgur.com/bhhgGDo.png

http://i.imgur.com/NCPZ0kr.png

http://i.imgur.com/FC5HbVE.png

http://i.imgur.com/Q4ewZep.png

So if this must be take as a valid combat speed feat, then it could only be apply with Superboy-Prime and not to Post Crisis or Earth-Two.
 
They would have to manuever. You can't go from Earth to an unknown sun in the Andromeda Galaxy, then to the center of the universe simply by going in a straight line.
They were no more on Earth, they were already far outer space.

So is probable that they were already right in front of Andromeda when they had do that.

And it was still clearly show that they were going in a straight line to the red sun.

Also, they never got to Oa, but to Mogo, a sentient planet and Green Lantern.
 
Every person who I have talked about on this feat, stated that they were on the outer space of Earth.

You strike me as continuously attempting to downplay, and I'd rather look on the issue by myself.
 
Regardless, they were in the Milky Way as they clashed all the way to the Andromeda Galaxy, assuming they were at the very outer edge with no textal evidence is clear lowballing.

Likewise, assuming that Superman didn't have any single control or reaction while flying, talking, and enduring punches from Superboy Prime, who he had fought against previously, and that this very clear MFTL+ Fight doesn't apply to Combat Speed since the fighting consisted of bullrushing, is frankly absurd to me. This showcases MFTL+ Acceleration and Attack Speed, too, as Superman quickly increased his speed to such levels upon clashing.

It's weird that no one has problem with applying Running Feats to Combat Speed, but give people a MFTL+ Flight Feat and it becomes problematic.
 
Well, please carefully reread and consider all of my previous explanations. I really like Superman, and it is possible that he has other feats that qualify as MFTL+, but this one in particular does not make any logical sense to me.

Running speed requires body movement to achieve, whereas flight speed does not.
 
I mean no disrespect, but you actually haven't answered any of mine or Ryukama's specific points, instead just saying that it doesn't make sense to you.

The assumption that Comicbook characters can simply dash aimlesly into the stars, never once turning, or controlling their direction, or being aware of their surroundings is frankly what makes no sense to me. It's just ludicrous, and simply seems like downplaying.

To suggest that someone moving at a speed of Millions / Billions or even Trillions of times the speed of light isn't capable of reacting even at a measely 1000c is ridiculous.

Similarly, it ignores much on the nature of speed, such as acceleratio, which in this feat happened almost isntantly, meaning that Superman could accelerate just as fast to punch.

https://www.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/2m4ov3/meta_the_nature_of_speed/

^ This is a post that talks in length on the issue.

"The Types of Speed:

  • Maximum Speed: Many characters have an impressive maximum speed, something they can achieve in straight lines or over a decent period of time. However, this is rarely applicable without a solid....
  • Acceleratio: How quickly a character can achieve said speeds, and over what distance(can they do it in 2-3 step like the Flash, or do they need to move a good distance first)
  • Combat Speed: A term loved by many, but kind of a crap term in the first place. Combat Speed has a ton of facets that don't all line up.
    • Reflexes: The time a character takes to perceive and react to external stimuli is their reaction time. Their reflexes is that, and their ability to move their body in said time. Many characters have these twitch reflexes that allow them to dodge bullets, but who are by no means faster than the speed of sound. It has the sub-category of...
    • Perception/Observation Speed: The speed at which a character can perceive events.
    • Striking Speed: The speed a character can perform attacks, most notably the speed they can attack with their limbs.
    • Recovery Speed: The speed that a character can recover from their attacks, motions, etc. On many characters this will match their striking speed; however, some characters are capable of specific attacks that break this mold. An example would be Gomu Gomu Gatling.
(...)

What does it mean?

  • If a character has a high maximum speed, but can accelerate to that speed in short order, that is combat applicable. It is also applicable if they can fly faster than the other party can react/dodge.

    • Stop using the term "Combat Speed"
 
Well, again, LordXcano mathematically proved that reflexes and movement speed are not remotely automatically comparable to flight speed for space travel, given that it would be almost impossible to bump into anything that you do not aim for in the unfathomably vast distances of outer space.

Also, again, it would likely be necessary for Superman to throw trillions of punches within the given timeframe, in order to qualify for MFTL+ physical movement speed.
 
That said, I am fine with scaling him from the Karate Kid calculation.
 
Let's wait for more input first. Also, all of the Post-Crisis DC Comics characters scaled from Superman would need to be upgraded as well.
 
I concur with both parts of that. I'm actually gonna create a list of those who scale. Basically, it'll be Kryptonians, Amazons, Shazam characters, Lanterns, Starro, Darkseid, Doomsday, and Despero, correct? Obviously, Post Crisis versions.
 
Presumably Mongul, Martian Manhunter, and Lobo as well. But it is best to check the DC Comics category.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
https://www.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/2m4ov3/meta_the_nature_of_speed/

^ This is a post that talks in length on the issue.

"The Types of Speed:

  • Maximum Speed: Many characters have an impressive maximum speed, something they can achieve in straight lines or over a decent period of time. However, this is rarely applicable without a solid....
  • Acceleratio: How quickly a character can achieve said speeds, and over what distance(can they do it in 2-3 step like the Flash, or do they need to move a good distance first)
  • Combat Speed: A term loved by many, but kind of a crap term in the first place. Combat Speed has a ton of facets that don't all line up.
    • Reflexes: The time a character takes to perceive and react to external stimuli is their reaction time. Their reflexes is that, and their ability to move their body in said time. Many characters have these twitch reflexes that allow them to dodge bullets, but who are by no means faster than the speed of sound. It has the sub-category of...
    • Perception/Observation Speed: The speed at which a character can perceive events.
    • Striking Speed: The speed a character can perform attacks, most notably the speed they can attack with their limbs.
    • Recovery Speed: The speed that a character can recover from their attacks, motions, etc. On many characters this will match their striking speed; however, some characters are capable of specific attacks that break this mold. An example would be Gomu Gomu Gatling.
(...)

What does it mean?

  • If a character has a high maximum speed, but can accelerate to that speed in short order, that is combat applicable. It is also applicable if they can fly faster than the other party can react/dodge.

    • Stop using the term "Combat Speed"
Click to expand...
I had said that Superman could use his Maximum Speed in combat, if during the fight he keep to accelerate for enough time.

But like i had pointed up before, Superman need a certain period of time for building that speed, and in a fight with Massively FTL+ characters, it wouldn't be that easily (the same may apply with characters that are able to teleport in combat).

Because everytime Superman could need to stop or he would been stopped by the opponent, he would lose all the momentum and the speed that he was trying to archive, returning to had only MFTL speed.

That's one of the reasons why he cannot trully compete with Speedforce users like Flash, as they can became millions to billions of times FTL (and more) in a far shorter time, without acceleration (or at least with far less acceleration).
 
Superman accelerated nearly instantly, and at most in minutes during this feat. Is he can move at trillions of times Lightspeed in minutes, it's laughable to say that he can't accelerate to over 1000c in one second or less.
 
I just made a short calculation, that even with the utmost downplay, would mean that Superman is capable of accelerating to MFTL+ speeds in a second.

http://www.smartconversion.com/unit_calculation/Acceleration_calculator.aspx

Giving an initial speed of simply lightspeed (Which in of itself is downplay, as Superman has plenty of FTL and FTL+ Combat Feats)

And a final speed of 1,000,000,000c (Which is also a downplay, as Supes' best Speed Feats are faster than that.

And a timeframe of two hours (As in, it took Superman two hours of acceleration to reach such speed)

... Would still give Superman an accelerating speed of 138,892.3828338937019c / s┬▓

In short, any feat of speed of around Millions, Billions, Trillions or more times the speed of light would give the character flying MFTL+ Combat Speed by default of the necessity of decent acceleration. And this ignores ALL characters who assume said Top Speeds instantly.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
Superman accelerated nearly instantly, and at most in minutes during this feat. Is he can move at trillions of times Lightspeed in minutes, it's laughable to say that he can't accelerate to over 1000c in one second or less.
Click to expand...
Yes, but in a fight again characters that are many times faster than Superman's instant movement speed, then one second could not be enough in most cases (like in the case of Flash or Wonder Woman).

At least, in my opinion.
 
I generally consider flight speed pretty similar to combat speed when: 1) When the acceleration is pretty high and 2) is casual flight, when no technics nor anticipated impulse is used. Also, @Matt, I'm guessing that c/s^2 is ly/s^2, cuz c/s^2 isn't a real unit.
 
So, about the Karate Kid calculation: Are people okay with scaling Superman, and several other Post-Crisis DC characters, from him?
 
I want to look at MFTL+ feats.

Wonder Woman also has one, namely blocking projectiles that were TKed from the edge of the universe at her.
 
Alright.
 
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