- 14,574
- 5,874
I would rather think Arceus being tameable is the biggest outlier.
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Red vs Ash
- Thread starter The_real_cal_howard
- Start date
- 354
- 19
We arn't using his sun and moon team. Therefor all those feats are null.The 2nd Existential Seed said:
- 8,088
- 1,544
I was talking about Sun and Moon (The Characters) having the most consistent legendary feats. I wasn't using Ash's Sun and Moon team.
- 2,711
- 161
@cowhoward when u said "how has nobody done this" i hated u for saying that before me, but i felt it deep on my heart, once i read it lol
- 354
- 19
It was his team however who acomplised those featThe 2nd Existential Seed said:
- 286
- 17
He never did.Dragonboi9191 said:
- 354
- 19
Are you agreeing with me?Jawsome274 said:
- 286
- 17
What I was saying was that Ash's team never accomplished those feats. But honestly, this is getting very derailed, so can we not talk about a character that isn't even on this thread?Dragonboi9191 said:
- 354
- 19
So, Ash can't get rid of one section of team rocket. Red took down the whole team.
- 354
- 19
I was responding to someone else when they listed a bunch of sun and moon feats.Jawsome274 said:
- 2,995
- 1,979
Yeah, okay. I haven't really read the calcs before and I'm still pretty fresh to how things are organised on this website which is why I would be unaware of specific scaling. I understand why there wouldn't be different pages (although I could see it as plausible to make different keys for different pokemon) but I think it's pretty undeniable that there are huge power gaps in the 'common' legendaries...like not every Darkrai is going to be 2-C, that's just absurd. Not every Regice is going to be an outright High 6-A either, some may be weaker...albeit this would be headcanon but still a sensible headcanon to have considering there are cases of massive scaling differences with say...Pikachus, Lucarios, Charizards, etc.
I would definitely argue that Pikachu is stronger than he is given credit for (and that only his end of region scaling should be considered) and that Alain's Charizard is in a class of its own...It did take out dozens of mega pokemon by itself and, as I said, it DID face off against Zygarde which would certainly show that it probably isn't just 'at least High 6-C'...but I've never done any calculations for this before so I wouldn't know or care to check.
I think Ash's Pikachu, Alain's Charizard and Ash-Greninja could all be upgraded with these statements in mind but I digress.
A-Anyways, point being. Pikachu is arguably above High 6-C and is even stronger with Z-Moves whereas Red's Pikachu would be...what? Low 7-C? He has a lot of firepower with Blastoise, Charizard and Venusaur as well as Snorlax and Lapras but Ash has Infernape, Charizard, Ash-Greninja, Sceptile and Heracross who are all also High 6-C.
So basically, overall Ash has a vastly superior Pikachu and multiple feats of his pokemon defeating legendaries whereas Red is the only protagonist (to my memory) that has no forced battles against legendaries. I seriously have to give it to him, especially if Infernape's Blaze Hax is treated as its own entity instead of an inherent trait to the fire starters.
I would definitely argue that Pikachu is stronger than he is given credit for (and that only his end of region scaling should be considered) and that Alain's Charizard is in a class of its own...It did take out dozens of mega pokemon by itself and, as I said, it DID face off against Zygarde which would certainly show that it probably isn't just 'at least High 6-C'...but I've never done any calculations for this before so I wouldn't know or care to check.
I think Ash's Pikachu, Alain's Charizard and Ash-Greninja could all be upgraded with these statements in mind but I digress.
A-Anyways, point being. Pikachu is arguably above High 6-C and is even stronger with Z-Moves whereas Red's Pikachu would be...what? Low 7-C? He has a lot of firepower with Blastoise, Charizard and Venusaur as well as Snorlax and Lapras but Ash has Infernape, Charizard, Ash-Greninja, Sceptile and Heracross who are all also High 6-C.
So basically, overall Ash has a vastly superior Pikachu and multiple feats of his pokemon defeating legendaries whereas Red is the only protagonist (to my memory) that has no forced battles against legendaries. I seriously have to give it to him, especially if Infernape's Blaze Hax is treated as its own entity instead of an inherent trait to the fire starters.
- 354
- 19
Red took down and captured a Mewtwo. What did Ash do against one? Get wrecked. Reds mega charzard X took it out, already proving his charzards better than Pikachu. Red has many type advantages, Venasaur beating greninja, Charzard beating sceptile and heracross, and laparas and blastoise both beat Infernape.CryoTheMayo said:
- 2,995
- 1,979
1. Don't quote entire posts, bloats up threads a lot.
2. This is Games Red vs Ash not Origins Red or Adventures Red.
3. Pikachu can beat Blastoise and Lapras. Infernape and Charizard can beat Venusaur. Ash-Greninja can beat Charizard. Red's Pikachu is so much weaker than Ash's that his Pikachu would curbstomp Red's Pikachu. See how two-way that is? No one side is particularly advantaged here.
2. This is Games Red vs Ash not Origins Red or Adventures Red.
3. Pikachu can beat Blastoise and Lapras. Infernape and Charizard can beat Venusaur. Ash-Greninja can beat Charizard. Red's Pikachu is so much weaker than Ash's that his Pikachu would curbstomp Red's Pikachu. See how two-way that is? No one side is particularly advantaged here.
- 286
- 17
... Not changing my vote but it was also defeated by a regular flamethrower.Epsilon R said:
- 354
- 19
1 Game Ash did catch a Mewtwo. Look it up.CryoTheMayo said:
2 So its just inconclusive? Actualy, Ash dosn't reallly seem to switch out when his pokemon has a disadvantage. Example, Tate and Liza Gym battle. He used a swellow.
- 2,995
- 1,979
Show me proof that Red caught a Mewtwo.
No, it's not inconclusive. We would base it on what the trainers can do, their movesets, the power and effectiveness of their pokemon and more. There are more factors to battling than just "Well that guy has the type advantage!".
No, it's not inconclusive. We would base it on what the trainers can do, their movesets, the power and effectiveness of their pokemon and more. There are more factors to battling than just "Well that guy has the type advantage!".
- 354
- 19
In case you forgot this was game red, you can catch a mewtwo. Look it up. Anyway, using Red from the videogames asks a lot of questions, like what is his strategy? It differs for everybody playing.CryoTheMayo said:
- 2,995
- 1,979
That doesn't work. We are using Red from the Battle Tree who uses his team from HGSS and there is no real way of telling if he caught Mewtwo or not...hell, you can find Mewtwo in Cerulean Cave in HGSS which would rather confirm that Red never caught Mewtwo.
His strategy would be based on what moves his pokemon have, the feats each species has, their abilities, etc. Pretty much all of his pokemon are High 6-C (except Pikachu who is 7-C) and his Mega of choice (which can be Venusaur, Blastoise, Charizard who can be X or Y) which is 'at least' High 6-C.
I am arguing that Ash would win statistically as his Pikachu is far more powerful (at least High 6-C + Z-Move amps) and he has Ash-Greninja (who would be at least equal to Red's Mega). His Infernape also has ridiculous amps with Blaze which seems to be unique in its intensity.
His strategy would be based on what moves his pokemon have, the feats each species has, their abilities, etc. Pretty much all of his pokemon are High 6-C (except Pikachu who is 7-C) and his Mega of choice (which can be Venusaur, Blastoise, Charizard who can be X or Y) which is 'at least' High 6-C.
I am arguing that Ash would win statistically as his Pikachu is far more powerful (at least High 6-C + Z-Move amps) and he has Ash-Greninja (who would be at least equal to Red's Mega). His Infernape also has ridiculous amps with Blaze which seems to be unique in its intensity.
- 354
- 19
It never says it was him from the battle tree, it said it was him using the battle tree team, therefor he could have caught the mewtwo. I agree with all of your calculations exept greninja, as he looses to a mega he had a advantage against. And keep in mind Z moves are only to be able to be used once a battle, and could probably be easily avoided.
- 286
- 17
Ash Greninja was also against an Elite Four-level opponent, and lost the advantage due to the Dragon typing.Dragonboi9191 said:
- 286
- 17
That means that type advs. just aren't as important, not that they don't exist.
- 354
- 19
But were using a character from a game, who follows different rules than Ash.Epsilon R said:
- 75
- 10
So what's the voting count right now?
Epsilon_R
He/Him- 6,290
- 1,293
Ash: 8 (Jakob, Jawsome, Cryo, Efficiente, Formofacast, Epsi, Laughing Manso, Existential Seed)
Red: 1 (Dragonboi)
I think I missed some red votes or some people on this thread still haven't voted yet
Red: 1 (Dragonboi)
I think I missed some red votes or some people on this thread still haven't voted yet
- 2,514
- 6,619
Grace period started when I voted for Ash since that was the seventh vote. This should've been added 9 days ago.
- 279
- 6
It's unneeded, both profiles are unlocked.
- 279
- 6
I'll do it, sorry if I could not.
Similar threads
