"Rebirth of Mothra MEGA nerf" or "I commit vehicular manslaughter"

[Arceus0x]

In short, the tier 3 stats suck and the tier 5 one is weird.

Now in depth.
I'll be arguing about this blog.

1. Absorbing the energy of the universe is vague and doesn't really suggest a tier

"The shield of Elias has the power to gather the energy of the universe"
this means nothing. quite literally. not only do we not know how much of it is absorbed, we also don't know how much energy there is in the universe, especially in this verse.

Furthermore
"I believe that the energy of the universe is the force: of life on earth."
basically disapproves that "the energy of the universe" is anything significant. It's vague as heck yeah but still, this energy doesn't seem to be universal or support universe level in the first place.

2. Infinite energy

Having infinite energy isn't High 3-A. Simple as that. Nothing proves Mothra uses infinite energy attacks. If you attach a garden hose to the ocean it won't shoot out an ocean. If this is how it worked characters like Eternatus would be High 3-A.

3. Desghidorah destroying the universe is too vague and would sorta be an outlier

"If Death Ghidorah has his way, his power will be enough to destroy the entire universe"
That's the tough one to disprove..or is it?
Firstly, destroying the entire universe may seem solid at first, but Desghidorah has been going around planets all his life sucking out their energy. What's the issue here? He hasn't shown any feats of a similar level before. He barely manages to destroy planets by absorbing their life/biomass and leaves them to die. Suddenly here's the statement that he would destroy the universe?
Secondly, i do think this warrants a possibly tier, but a 4-B one rather than a 3-A one. To destroy the universe in any way you'd need to destroy neutron stars so 4-B would be the minimum, scaling to the GBE of a pulsar.
While he does destroy everything by absorbing their "energy", i think a possibly 4-B is warranted. 3-A is wonky and would be a massive outlier.
Thirdly, "if Desghidorah has his way"...but did he have his way? I didn't get the chance to watch the movies so i have no clue.


So, what's the conclusion?
Desghidorah becomes Low 5-B, possibly 4-B

Bring it on fellow big G fans, prove me wrong.

 

[Gasper]

100% agree

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

I was planning on revise this verse myself. Anyway I disagre with removing the Tier 5-B from Desghidorah who was stated not only being able to absorb the life energy from planets but also being capable to destroying them according various guides.

Second, he absorbed countless planets before arrive on Earth. So, makes sense that absorbing one more planet (Earth) would have give him a 3-A Tier.

The rest is fine.

 

[Arceus0x]

I was planning on revise this verse myself. Anyway I disagre with removing the Tier 5-B from Desghidorah who was stated not only being able to absorb the life energy from planets but also being capable to destroying them according various guides.

Disagree. He explicitly destroyed planets by absorbing their life energy. He had a tier Low 5-B before and i think he should keep it

Second, he absorbed countless planets before arrive on Earth. So, makes sense that absorbing one more planet (Earth) would have give him a 3-A Tier.

It doesn't. Literally doesn't. Like ok he absorbed countless planets' energy, how is it 3-A? Absorbing all the planets in the universe won't even give you 3-C and that is if you physically absorb them. Absorbing some vague energy of countless (unknown number) planets won't give you 3-A and it doesn't make sense thet Earth will suddenly let him jump from 5-B to 3-A

 

[Gasper]

I was planning on revise this verse myself. Anyway I disagre with removing the Tier 5-B from Desghidorah who was stated not only being able to absorb the life energy from planets but also being capable to destroying them according various guides.

Second, he absorbed countless planets before arrive on Earth. So, makes sense that absorbing one more planet (Earth) would have give him a 3-A Tier.

The rest is fine.

Countless dosen't mean infinite

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Disagree. He explicitly destroyed planets by absorbing their life energy. He had a tier Low 5-B before and i think he should keep it

It doesn't. Literally doesn't. Like ok he absorbed countless planets' energy, how is it 3-A? Absorbing all the planets in the universe won't even give you 3-C and that is if you physically absorb them. Absorbing some vague energy of countless (unknown number) planets won't give you 3-A and it doesn't make sense thet Earth will suddenly let him jump from 5-B to 3-A

Even if it doesn't makes sense Earth having universal power is canon in this verse.

 

[Arceus0x]

Even if it doesn't makes sense Earth having universal power is canon in this verse.

Universal power literally means nothing outside of VSBW. Having a statement of having universal power doesn't tell us anything about it if we don't assume it's a battleboarding term, which we can't do.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Universal power literally means nothing outside of VSBW. Having a statement of having universal power doesn't tell us anything about it if we don't assume it's a battleboarding term, which we can't do.

Iirc There was a statement of Grand Ghidorah being able to destroy the universe

 

[Arceus0x]

Iirc There was a statement of Grand Ghidorah being able to destroy the universe but given I don't have it and that the rest of arguments were debunked I think the downgrade its fine.

Translate it. It's at the end of your blog. Translate it and come back to me with that exact statement.
Don't just back down, you might have more evidence than you think you do.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Translate it. It's at the end of your blog. Translate it and come back to me with that exact statement.
Don't just back down, you might have more evidence than you think you do.

Ok, but are you sure that scan is the correct one?

 

[Arceus0x]

Ok, but are you sure that scan is the correct one?

You tell me lol

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

You tell me lol

Dagahra has Tier 5-B statements, so Desghidorah who fought Imago Mothra Leo should scale.

Dagahra

Dagahra (ダガーラ Dagāra) is a pollution-consuming kaiju created by Toho that first appeared in the 1997 Toho film, Rebirth of Mothra II. In the past, a race of advanced people called the Nilai Kanai created Dagahra to clean all the pollution they were releasing. Dagahra consumed the pollution but...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Arceus0x]

Dagahra has Tier 5-B statements, so Desghidorah who fought Imago Mothra Leo should scale.

Dagahra

Dagahra (ダガーラ Dagāra) is a pollution-consuming kaiju created by Toho that first appeared in the 1997 Toho film, Rebirth of Mothra II. In the past, a race of advanced people called the Nilai Kanai created Dagahra to clean all the pollution they were releasing. Dagahra consumed the pollution but...

vsbattles.fandom.com

The issue is the fact that earth can be destroyed in many ways

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

The issue is the fact that earth can be destroyed in many ways

Given Desghidorah has Tier 5 feats I wouldn't be suprised it to mean planet-bust.

found this:

According to Mal of the "The Great Demon King of Terror", half of the great extinction of life on the stars of the universe in the RoM universe is the result of the massacres committed by the "Ghidorah Tribe"

Which means both Desghidorah and Cretaceous Ghidorah have destroyed half of the life in the universe.

In the novelized version by Taka Hatano published by Fusosha at the time of its release, it is said Desghidorah to be a negative life that was created to build a lifeless universe born from the tendency to increase the entropy of the universe, and its existence, which is equal to God, is said to have no death.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

According to science There are 300 million habitable planets in our Galaxy

And both Ghidorahs destroyed half of the life in the universe, so do your maths 150,000,000 planets per Ghidorah multiply 5 Zettatons by that number, it gaves us 750,000,000 Zettatons

 

[Arceus0x]

According to science There are 300 million habitable planets in our Galaxy

And both Ghidorahs destroyed half of the life in the universe, so do your maths 150,000,000 planets per Ghidorah multiply 5 Zettatons by that number, it gaves us 750,000,000 Zettatons

Problem is, he didn't do it in one sitting. He did it by going from planet to planet and i see no evidence to suggest he can release all that energy at once.
Another problem, the feat is High 5-A+ (750000000 zettatons) Nothing compared to the possibly 4-B I'm proposing.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Problem is, he didn't do it in one sitting. He did it by going from planet to planet and i see no evidence to suggest he can release all that energy at once.
Another problem, the feat is High 5-A+ (750000000 zettatons) Nothing compared to the possibly 4-B I'm proposing.

The guide implies otherwise with the universe destroying thing. His mission was to destroy all life in the universe. So makes sense him looking to one-shot everything.

 

[Arceus0x]

The guide implies otherwise with the universe destroying thing. His mission was to destroy all life in the universe. So makes sense him looking to one-shot everything.

Also I just did the calc for our galaxy, so if we count "half of the universe" part so both Ghidorahs wiped at least 100 billion galaxies half of 200 billion. Lets say each wiped 50 billion galaxies that means Desghidorah has absorbed 37500000000000000000000 Zettatons

...still 4-B doe

either way i feel sus about it but im too tired to argue rn so i'll reply tomorrow and bring some staff

 

[ZeedKZ]

Desghidorah would only have the power to destroy the universe once he absorbs the life energy of Earth, who's always treated as having universal/primordial energy not only in Rebirth of Mothra, but in the wider Godzilla universe too, so it's not an outlier, just a condition that he needs to destroy the universe. Also, the wider Godzilla verse treats the universe as containing infinite cosmic energy, so we already have that information.

 

[Arceus0x]

Desghidorah would only have the power to destroy the universe once he absorbs the life energy of Earth, who's always treated as having universal/primordial energy not only in Rebirth of Mothra, but in the wider Godzilla universe too, so it's not an outlier, just a condition that he needs to destroy the universe. Also, the wider Godzilla verse treats the universe as containing infinite cosmic energy, so we already have that information.

Scans and scans. Having universal energy means nothing when it comes to tier.

 

[ZeedKZ]

I don't remember suggesting him to get any tier based on that...

 

[Arceus0x]

I don't remember suggesting him to get any tier based on that...

Then why are you bringing it up? Infinite energy is relevant... Is it? I mean does anyone absorb all of the cosmic energy at some point? Do they ever show that they can use infinite energy attacks?

 

[ZeedKZ]

I'm bringing this because this is literally why Desghidorah is ranked at 3-A... and I corrected you of not knowing how much energy there is in the Godzillaverse...

 

[ZeedKZ]

Desghidorah would only achieve the power to destroy the universe once he absorbs Earth's life force, without that, he can't. He died on the film before achieving this, so 3-A should just be wiped.

 

[Arceus0x]

Desghidorah would only achieve the power to destroy the universe once he absorbs Earth's life force, without that, he can't. He died on the film before achieving this, so 3-A should just be wiped.

Ok. So you do agree with they. Fair nuff

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Ok. So you do agree with they. Fair nuff

More possible Tier 5 stuff

VS Battles Wiki

The VS Battles Wiki is the world's most comprehensive and popular index of statistics and powers for characters and items from all of popular fiction.

vsbattles.fandom.com

I watched the whole movie today, it was soo good! However, I couldn't find Moll's dialogue, so I guess it comes from the Novelization of the film.

Also, I want to propose upgrading Garugaru and Fairy Mothra's speed to Supersonic+and High Hypersonic reactions scaling from Grand King Ghidorah's Flight Speed (Can fly at Mach 3 and his attacks that can catch Rainbow Mothra in mid-air)

 

[Arceus0x]

Also, I want to propose upgrading Garugaru and Fairy Mothra's speed to Supersonic+and High Hypersonic reactions scaling from Grand King Ghidorah's Flight Speed (Can fly at Mach 3 and his attacks that can catch Rainbow Mothra in mid-air)

i think that should be taken to a different CRT?

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

i think that should be taken to a different CRT?

It Isn't necessary to make another CRT for Mothra when we have one open already. So could you add it to the OP, please?

I also translated King Ghidorah's page, but the only thing I got was that he destroyed the planet Venus as well as King Ghidorah Showa. I also removed the scans of the infinite power that were mistranslated and said something else.

Also, Garugaru destroyed an excavator machine with his beam, so this calc could be used for this case.

 

[Dereck03]

May i get at TL; DR of the outcome of the discussion?

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

May i get at TL; DR of the outcome of the discussion?

We all agree Tiers 3-A and High 3-A should just be wiped

We are discussing if the following statements could warranty a Tier 5-B for the characters at the very least.

Also, I proposed upgrading Garugaru and Fairy Mothra's speed to Supersonic+and High Hypersonic reactions scaling from Grand King Ghidorah's Flight Speed (Can fly at Mach 3, and his attacks can catch Rainbow Mothra in mid-air) and Garugaru destroyed an excavator machine with his beam, so this calc could be used for this case.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Also, I proposed upgrading Garugaru and Fairy Mothra's speed to Supersonic+and High Hypersonic reactions scaling from Grand King Ghidorah's Flight Speed (Can fly at Mach 3, and his attacks can catch Rainbow Mothra in mid-air) and Garugaru destroyed an excavator machine with his beam, so this calc could be used for this case.

I agree with this and removing the Tier 3 stuff.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

I agree with this and removing the Tier 3 stuff.

I have one last proposal.

According to this blog, Desghidorah destroyed several planets:

Rebirth of Mothra Power-scaling

vsbattles.fandom.com

When it refers to destroying it means "absorbing all the energy from the planet"

So, I was searching for the meaning of "several" and I found that that word in English perhaps the most common interpretation or intended sense of several is around three to five. Why is important to know this? well we could multiply 5 Zettatons which is the accepted value in this calc

5 x 3 (lowball) = 15 Zettatons

Desghidorah at his peak is equal to 10 Mothras.

15 x 10 = 150 Zettatons

That is 5-B according to this page and again this is a high lowball since Desghidorah destroyed more than just 3 planets.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I have one last proposal.

According to this blog, Desghidorah destroyed several planets:

Rebirth of Mothra Power-scaling

vsbattles.fandom.com

When it refers to destroying it means "absorbing all the energy from the planet"

So, I was searching for the meaning of "several" and I found that that word in English perhaps the most common interpretation or intended sense of several is around three to five. Why is important to know this? well we could multiply 5 Zettatons which is the accepted value in this calc

5 x 3 (lowball) = 15 Zettatons

Desghidorah at his peak is equal to 10 Mothras.

15 x 10 = 150 Zettatons

That is 5-B according to this page and again this is a high lowball since Desghidorah destroyed more than just 3 planets.

Seems like a fair assessment.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

I have one last proposal.

According to this blog, Desghidorah destroyed several planets:

Rebirth of Mothra Power-scaling

vsbattles.fandom.com

When it refers to destroying it means "absorbing all the energy from the planet"

So, I was searching for the meaning of "several" and I found that that word in English perhaps the most common interpretation or intended sense of several is around three to five. Why is important to know this? well we could multiply 5 Zettatons which is the accepted value in this calc

5 x 3 (lowball) = 15 Zettatons

Desghidorah at his peak is equal to 10 Mothras.

15 x 10 = 150 Zettatons

That is 5-B according to this page and again this is a high lowball since Desghidorah destroyed more than just 3 planets.

Seems okay imo

 

[Arceus0x]

Ehhh i guess it's fine. I'm a bit sus about the 3x multiplier but whatever, DDM, Marvel and Dereck agreed with this so i think it's good enough

 

[Arceus0x]

I agree with this and removing the Tier 3 stuff.

Seems like a fair assessment.

May i get at TL; DR of the outcome of the discussion?

Y'all mind if i make the changes? I believe enough time has passed

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Y'all mind if i make the changes? I believe enough time has passed

How is going to look like the new scaling chain?

Also the new Tier is going to be At least 5-B?

 

[Arceus0x]

How is going to look like the new scaling chain?

Also the new Tier is going to be At least 5-B?

i actually would like some help with that from you.

I would like to know, is desghidorah at his peak different from the one that fought normal mothra?

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

i actually would like some help with that from you.

I would like to know, is desghidorah at his peak different from the one that fought normal mothra?

Yeah, he is different enough to warrantie a
new key for his peak power. Mothra and Mothra Leo fought a weaker Desghidorah in the film. Imago Mothra Leo couldn't kill a semi-feed Desghidorah only seal it. In the novelized version it is stated both peak Desghidorah and Cretaceous Ghidorah fought in space, however is Unknown who won the fight.

Knowing this the scaling would be something like this:

Weakened Mothra < Starved Desghidorah <<< Imago Mothra Leo <<< Moderately Fed Desghidorah <<< Dagahra <<< Rainbow Mothra <<< Cretaceous King Ghidorah <> Well Fed Desghidorah <<< Grand Ghidorah <<< Armor Mothra <<< Eternal Mothra

 

[Arceus0x]

Yeah, he is different enough to warrantie a
new key for his peak power. Mothra and Mothra Leo fought a weaker Desghidorah in the film. Imago Mothra Leo couldn't kill a semi-feed Desghidorah only seal it. In the novelized version it is stated both peak Desghidorah and Cretaceous Ghidorah fought in space, however is Unknown who won the fight.

Knowing this the scaling would be something like this:

Weakened Mothra < Starved Desghidorah <<< Imago Mothra Leo <<< Semi-feed Desghidorah <<< Dagahra <<< Rainbow Mothra <<< Cretaceous King Ghidorah <> Peak Desghidorah <<< Grand Ghidorah <<< Armor Mothra <<< Eternal Mothra

so starved desghidorah would be 15 zettatons right? Would anyone downscale from peak desghidorah?