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Reality Quest Discussion Thread

DeltaStriker22 said:
That choppedness will double when Sun-Jae breaks it's face🗿
Click to expand...
The only wincon I can see:
  • LS Difference. Doesn't allow for instant dehabilitazionation due to the Unknown AP difference, Sunjae being 8-C and the Ork being High 8-C (didn't see any values)
  • Size indifference. We've seen Sunjae fight someone multiple times his own size without any problem, with his LS too, he should be able to flip him and so on with relative ease
  • Range is roughly equal, Sunjae with Shockwaves reaches hundreds of meters as well
  • Fear and Paralysis Inducement
  • Speed difference

Anything else, the Ork seems to be better ngl, from Endurance (has actual regeneration) to Haxes (Limited Reality Warping, although Orks need to be in big numbers for substantial changes at least). And lastly AP, but again, didn't find any written-down value
 
Don't forget:
  • Perception (0.016 seconds)
  • Intelligence (at least Gifted, possibly genius)
  • Likely better martial arts + anpr, attack redirection and acrobatics.

I think Sun-Jae will win round 1 easily.
 
Oh, is perception speed not equalised when it comes to speed equalisation matchups? Didn't know that
 
Mercury009 said:
Oh, is perception speed not equalised when it comes to speed equalisation matchups? Didn't know that
Click to expand...
I think so?
Even with speed equalization Yu has had his perception advantage in every match of him I've seen.
Though that could be because his perception is considered to be Passive Perception Manipulation instead of simple perception speed.

We'll see if Sun-Jae gets to keep his perception advantage when the match is made.
 
Mercury009 said:
The only wincon I can see:
  • LS Difference. Doesn't allow for instant dehabilitazionation due to the Unknown AP difference, Sunjae being 8-C and the Ork being High 8-C (didn't see any values)
  • Size indifference. We've seen Sunjae fight someone multiple times his own size without any problem, with his LS too, he should be able to flip him and so on with relative ease
  • Range is roughly equal, Sunjae with Shockwaves reaches hundreds of meters as well
  • Fear and Paralysis Inducement
  • Speed difference

Anything else, the Ork seems to be better ngl, from Endurance (has actual regeneration) to Haxes (Limited Reality Warping, although Orks need to be in big numbers for substantial changes at least). And lastly AP, but again, didn't find any written-down value
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I say we have a chance, but the hax is very concerning ngl

Also if it’s just High 8-C with no statistics value or feat linked, it “usually” means baseline value so 2 Tons of tnt
 
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I made an unfinished edit just for fun for the reality quest bros it’s just an idea that came to mind. (No, I don’t think Dowan takes all categories from Kitae it’s just that when I edit for fun most of my matches tend to be stomps). I still do have Dowan winning though, around low - high difficulty depending on the key Dowan is in.


 
Gamin_Yoon23 said:
I made an unfinished edit just for fun for the reality quest bros it’s just an idea that came to mind. (No, I don’t think Dowan takes all categories from Kitae it’s just that when I edit for fun most of my matches tend to be stomps). I still do have Dowan winning though, around low - high difficulty depending on the key Dowan is in.


Click to expand...

I mean, I have the same result but not the same reasons or points you got lol
 
CatLover313 said:
I mean, I have the same result but not the same reasons or points you got lol
Click to expand...
I see, if it’s not too big of an ask what’s your reasoning? Also the points were something I usually allocate properly like, I wouldn’t ever really add martial arts I usually just have that as skill and so on and so forth. I mainly just made this for fun so my planning wasn’t all there 😭. I also really find it difficult expressing my take of this since I do tend to get people saying low difficulty is illogical. I think it’s perfectly logical due to Dowan’s passive hax and then the typical, “Dowan is weak without his system” or “that’s not fair” comments start to arise. It doesn’t even become debating atp. A closer and fairer fight IMO is probably the keys which aren’t as haxxed but then there’s disproportionate statistics leading to a stomp. Technically passives > leading with melee, but that’s more so contextual, so you could even make the argument earlier keys Dowan wins 🤷.
 
Pretty sure Kitae main advantages is speed (accepted, im fully aware Dowan should be way faster thanks to GB + Booster), AP and Durability.

Everything he kinda takes. I'd be more interested in a Sunjae vs Kitae to be completely honestly
 
Gamin_Yoon23 said:
I see, if it’s not too big of an ask what’s your reasoning? Also the points were something I usually allocate properly like, I wouldn’t ever really add martial arts I usually just have that as skill and so on and so forth. I mainly just made this for fun so my planning wasn’t all there 😭. I also really find it difficult expressing my take of this since I do tend to get people saying low difficulty is illogical. I think it’s perfectly logical due to Dowan’s passive hax and then the typical, “Dowan is weak without his system” or “that’s not fair” comments start to arise. It doesn’t even become debating atp. A closer and fairer fight IMO is probably the keys which aren’t as haxxed but then there’s disproportionate statistics leading to a stomp. Technically passives > leading with melee, but that’s more so contextual, so you could even make the argument earlier keys Dowan wins 🤷.
Click to expand...
Yeah, that's why I don't try to intervene in off-site power scaling. I might comment now, and then on Reddit, but for the sake of my sanity, I like to only do powerscaling here and try to use statistics/logic that I've seen accepted around here. I also try not to say low-extreme diff as I only say that in inverse matchups. While in cross-verse matchups, if the statistics gap or hax (like Gojo infinity level hax) gap aren't insane, I try to value more how many wincons one side has and how "easy" it is to access said wincons.

So, to get back to why I have Extraordinary Body Dowan beating Kitae. Looking at their profiles and in this case, I am assuming my Lookism CRT is being accepted, the base statistics I'd use are:
  • AP/Base Durability: Kitae (2.22 Tons) > Dowan (0.80 Tons) - 2.775x Difference
  • Combat Speed (Base and Boosted): Booster Dowan (830 m/s) > Kitae (731.99 m/s) > Base Dowan (166 m/s) - 1.134x Advantage for Dowan with Booster and 4.409x Advantage for Kitae in base
  • Lifting Strength: Dowan (113,061.44 Tons) > Kitae (171.012 Tons) - 661.132x Difference
For the skill gap, Kitae hasn't shown anything to be way superior to Dowan in skill, as he (along with Dowan) just seems to be an experienced brawler. Plus, with Dowan's skills anyway, his unorthodox game skills would actually make me give him the advantage in combat skills. Experience ig goes to Kitae, but the experience would be kind of countered by Dowan's higher BIQ, as Kitae hasn't shown as impressive BIQ feats. Though tbh, the above three categories (Skill, experience, BIQ) don't really impact the final result that much.

Now, to go to the main reason, I have Dowan beating Kitae more than the other way. Here are some of the biggest factors ranked from the biggest reason to the lowest.
  • The LS gap is huge (661.132x). Luckily, LS has a bigger factor in matchups on this site compared to everywhere else, and from what I've seen (Common opinion + Staff), as long as the AP/Durability gap is close (ranges from 5-10x gap), LS can be a huge deciding factor. Plus, Dowan isn't afraid to take advantage of a strength gap if he has one and has been shown to be willing to crush/pin/hold/choke a weaker enemy.
  • With Carve a Weak Spot, Dowan has a Durability Negation attack he could actively spam in battle, targeting it, that Kitae would need to be very worried about (if he somehow realizes he needs to protect that spot).
  • If Dowan ever gets low on health, he can then just use Indomitable Will and absorb one of Kitae's attacks so he can restore his stamina, increase his stats, and continue fighting, plus Indomitable Will can be used multiple times as it's only 500 Mana.
  • He is a little bit faster with Booster, so once he places the weak spot on Kitae, he could actively target that weak spot on Booster, as we know in the Se-hee vs Dowan fight, he doesn't need to actually use "Hit a Blind Spot" to activate the critical hit.
  • Dowan also has ANPR, so he can predict some of Kitae's attacks and try to get close to either hold him or strike his weak spot.
  • With his 1 Layer Fear-Inducement from Killing Intent (arguable if it can be used in his normal mode), Kitae doesn't have a resistance against Fear-Inducement, so Kitae could at least be stunned for a moment for Dowan to get a hold on him or strike his weak spot.
So, the big thing is, besides being faster and hitting slightly harder, Kitae doesn't really have any counter to Dowan's Critical hits or him just grabbing him (i.e. Fear Manipulation, ANPR, or Booster) and just choking/pinning him down. If not, Dowan could just pin Kitae down, and while Kitae is struggling to get out of the hold, Dowan can place a weak spot and hit that critical hit repeatedly. If Kitae ever gets out of the hold and plays smart (i.e., hit and run), Dowan would be able to last long enough to just hit Indomitable Will (multiple times) and more than likely, get a hold on him again. Though I wouldn't make a matchup, as while we know Kitae has a Path, we still aren't sure what it "does". The path hax could make a difference depending on how OP it is, but as of right now, with what we know, Dowan wins pretty handily.
 
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CatLover313 said:
The LS gap is huge (661.132x). Luckily, LS has a bigger factor in matchups on this site compared to everywhere else, and from what I've seen (Common opinion + Staff), as long as the AP/Durability gap is close (ranges from 5-10x gap), LS can be a huge deciding factor. Plus, Dowan isn't afraid to take advantage of a strength gap if he has one and has been shown to be willing to crush/pin/hold/choke a weaker enemy.
Click to expand...
Out of curiosity: within that range, whats the LS diff going to look like? I've seen people say "Limbs being torn off" n all that
 
Mercury009 said:
Out of curiosity: within that range, whats the LS diff going to look like? I've seen people say "Limbs being torn off" n all that
Click to expand...
In this thread, staff found that Class 5 (2.5 Tons) to Class 25 (25 Tons) would be enough to tear an arm. So if we use an average human LS (0.065 Tons), the gap ranges from needing a 38.46x to 384.62x gap to tear an Arm off.

On the common reference page, the LS needed to rip off a human head, though it is only Class 5 (High end) or 1529.5743 kgf or 1.529 Tons which would mean compared to the average human LS, you'd need a LS gap of 23.52x to tear a head off. Ofc this is only if it's in character to tear limbs, which Dowan doesn't. However, he is willing to dislocate, crush arms, and choke enemies, giving him the LS gap needed.

Though a caveat, the character's AP needs to be close to the enemy's durability to start tearing limbs (maybe dislocating too). Choking, pinning, and holding are all fair game no matter the gap though.
 
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CatLover313 said:
Yeah, that's why I don't try to intervene in off-site power scaling. I might comment now, and then on Reddit, but for the sake of my sanity, I like to only do powerscaling here and try to use statistics/logic that I've seen accepted around here. I also try not to say low-extreme diff as I only say that in inverse matchups. While in cross-verse matchups, if the statistics gap or hax (like Gojo infinity level hax) gap aren't insane, I try to value more how many wincons one side has and how "easy" it is to access said wincons.

So, to get back to why I have Extraordinary Body Dowan beating Kitae. Looking at their profiles and in this case, I am assuming my Lookism CRT is being accepted, the base statistics I'd use are:
  • AP/Base Durability: Kitae (2.22 Tons) > Dowan (0.80 Tons) - 2.775x Difference
  • Combat Speed (Base and Boosted): Booster Dowan (830 m/s) > Kitae (731.99 m/s) > Base Dowan (166 m/s) - 1.134x Advantage for Dowan with Booster and 4.409x Advantage for Kitae in base
  • Lifting Strength: Dowan (113,061.44 Tons) > Kitae (171.012 Tons) - 661.132x Difference
For the skill gap, Kitae hasn't shown anything to be way superior to Dowan in skill, as he (along with Dowan) just seems to be an experienced brawler. Plus, with Dowan's skills anyway, his unorthodox game skills would actually make me give him the advantage in combat skills. Experience ig goes to Kitae, but the experience would be kind of countered by Dowan's higher BIQ, as Kitae hasn't shown as impressive BIQ feats. Though tbh, the above three categories (Skill, experience, BIQ) don't really impact the final result that much.

Now, to go to the main reason, I have Dowan beating Kitae more than the other way. Here are some of the biggest factors ranked from the biggest reason to the lowest.
  • The LS gap is huge (661.132x). Luckily, LS has a bigger factor in matchups on this site compared to everywhere else, and from what I've seen (Common opinion + Staff), as long as the AP/Durability gap is close (ranges from 5-10x gap), LS can be a huge deciding factor. Plus, Dowan isn't afraid to take advantage of a strength gap if he has one and has been shown to be willing to crush/pin/hold/choke a weaker enemy.
  • With Carve a Weak Spot, Dowan has a Durability Negation attack he could actively spam in battle, targeting it, that Kitae would need to be very worried about (if he somehow realizes he needs to protect that spot).
  • If Dowan ever gets low on health, he can then just use Indomitable Will and absorb one of Kitae's attacks so he can restore his stamina, increase his stats, and continue fighting, plus Indomitable Will can be used multiple times as it's only 500 Mana.
  • He is a little bit faster with Booster, so once he places the weak spot on Kitae, he could actively target that weak spot on Booster, as we know in the Se-hee vs Dowan fight, he doesn't need to actually use "Hit a Blind Spot" to activate the critical hit.
  • Dowan also has ANPR, so he can predict some of Kitae's attacks and try to get close to either hold him or strike his weak spot.
  • With his 1 Layer Fear-Inducement from Killing Intent (arguable if it can be used in his normal mode), Kitae doesn't have a resistance against Fear-Inducement, so Kitae could at least be stunned for a moment for Dowan to get a hold on him or strike his weak spot.
So, the big thing is, besides being faster and hitting slightly harder, Kitae doesn't really have any counter to Dowan's Critical hits or him just grabbing him (i.e. Fear Manipulation, ANPR, or Booster) and just choking/pinning him down. If not, Dowan could just pin Kitae down, and while Kitae is struggling to get out of the hold, Dowan can place a weak spot and hit that critical hit repeatedly. If Kitae ever gets out of the hold and plays smart (i.e., hit and run), Dowan would be able to last long enough to just hit Indomitable Will (multiple times) and more than likely, get a hold on him again. Though I wouldn't make a matchup, as while we know Kitae has a Path, we still aren't sure what it "does". The path hax could make a difference depending on how OP it is, but as of right now, with what we know, Dowan wins pretty handily.
Click to expand...
Uhh hi, I want to ask—where does Dowan get the 1 layer of fear inducement from? Is it from Black Lock?
Regarding Kitae vs Dowan, do you think Kitae could withstand Dowan with his path ( yeah, I know Kitae’s path still hasn’t been revealed yet). Or durability? Considering how incredibly hard Kitae is to take down.
(Sorry for my bad english)
 
KevEldAM said:
Uhh hi, I want to ask—where does Dowan get the 1 layer of fear inducement from? Is it from Black Lock?
Regarding Kitae vs Dowan, do you think Kitae could withstand Dowan with his path ( yeah, I know Kitae’s path still hasn’t been revealed yet). Or durability? Considering how incredibly hard Kitae is to take down.
(Sorry for my bad english)
Click to expand...
I believe the 1 layer of fear inducement comes from when Dowan used Kill Mode against Ji. Ji had regular fear inducement which caused a momentary paralysis and mini-illusions but KM Dowan overcame it with his own killing intent which caused it to be single layer. I’m not the most well-known with “layers” but I’m just going with what’s accepted.
 
KevEldAM said:
Regarding Kitae vs Dowan, do you think Kitae could withstand Dowan with his path ( yeah, I know Kitae’s path still hasn’t been revealed yet). Or durability? Considering how incredibly hard Kitae is to take down.
Click to expand...
He's shown to still be susceptible to critical hits from Daniel's path, so Dowan using Carving Skill to apply a critical spot and repeatedly strike it to win is not out of the question. Especially since the speed difference from Great Body (it's called Extraordinary body, but I'm dying on this hill that GB sounds more catchy), combined with Booster, or just the overall LS difference, would give him an easy way to pin him and just beat him up

Plus, Kitae seems more of a stat stick type of Brawler; he has yet to showcase anything remarkable when it comes to fighting (Stated inverse too, dude just straight up punches his way out of a bad situation), besides his analytical skills.
 
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Just saw the raws for the new chapter, potential new speed feat? The rock was about to hit the “queen” and the closest guy (likely ex boramae rep) was able to move at least 10 meters to save her. Might be a decent feat (won’t scale to anyone but ex rep and he’s scaleless anyway….), will wait for the translation to come out to make the calc
 
Just saw the scans. You can use the swordsman dude that was next to Dowan, who then appeared a few meters away from the girl immediately after. The movement should still be within the same timeframe, and it is quite a long one, too. It does scale to a lot of people, too (although high tiers)


And I really hope the gun stuff isn't another fake-out

Edit: If we dont want to use the swordsman, using big guy would still give a notable lenght too, he was sitting a bit further away
9hTesFh.png
 
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Chapter released. Everyone got close to the queen lad before everything collapsed. Some people were extremely far away as well in the arena
 
I know there’s an unfinished upscale thread that allows upscales up to 1.1x a calcs final value. It’s not finished but 1.1x will likely stick.

You all think we can make a crt to move GB Dowan base speed to Baseline Subsonic+ as the 3rd growth Dowan falcon drop is 166 m/s and baseline subsonic+ upgrade is less than a 5% increase.
 
CatLover313 said:
I know there’s an unfinished upscale thread that allows upscales up to 1.1x a calcs final value. It’s not finished but 1.1x will likely stick.

You all think we can make a crt to move GB Dowan base speed to Baseline Subsonic+ as the 3rd growth Dowan falcon drop is 166 m/s and baseline subsonic+ upgrade is less than a 5% increase.
Click to expand...
Could you link it? Def gonna take a look but it seems "fine" I think?
 
Mercury009 said:
Could you link it? Def gonna take a look but it seems "fine" I think?
Click to expand...
It's kind of come to a pause but here it is, popular answer seems to be between 1.1x - 1.2x. Going to wait for tomorrow's chapter before making the upscale thread, I don't have high hopes for a speed feat but just in case, I'll wait.
 
Just backread some old profiles, they do have their stats a bit all over the place. We might need a CRT (or just change their values, I think) to fix them up. I see transonic speeds still being applied in some cases, like Seok and Kang
 
Mercury009 said:
Just backread some old profiles, they do have their stats a bit all over the place. We might need a CRT (or just change their values, I think) to fix them up. I see transonic speeds still being applied in some cases, like Seok and Kang
Click to expand...
I guess Jung-Seok and Kang's profiles missed the Transonic feat wipe. I'll probs make the upscale thread (told that there's no feat today) and put a fix to their profiles while I'm at it.
 
A part of me doesn't want to make the upscaling thread because in case we get a sick speed feat next week with Sehee dodging a bullet, it would make my upscale thread obsolete (Why did the Sehee scene have to be cut off 😭)
Mercury009 said:
So... no feat today. But she can see (partially) the quest window.

shocked-dog.gif
Click to expand...
She probs has some royal family powers
 
Not too surprised the Recon fight wasn't finished, would be surprising to introduce a character and have them defeated 2 chapters later especially if they have such an important status like being an HQ member. However, it is nice to know that Dowan's Dad was basically a Super Top Tier lol, wasn't expecting him to fully of tatoos though.
 
CatLover313 said:
Not too surprised the Recon fight wasn't finished, would be surprising to introduce a character and have them defeated 2 chapters later especially if they have such an important status like being an HQ member. However, it is nice to know that Dowan's Dad was basically a Super Top Tier lol, wasn't expecting him to fully of tatoos though.
Click to expand...
Dude literally hit the Shingen pose too 😭
 
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