Re-examining Aizen's Existence Erasure & Resistances

[BOEGVELD]

there's actually more like things being erased completely around him. like the whole physical rod that disintegrated + someones fingers when they tried to touch him

How do we know those things are getting erased, though? So far there's not a single statement or implication suggesting Aizen's ability is Existence Erasure. Just seems like a bit of a reach imo.

 

[DaimaouAshura]

Or we change Aizen's Existence Erasure to "Limited." He only erases individuals and objects whose spirits can't withstand his power. This doesn't mean we look at the characters tiers and say "This guy is Tier 4, so he is unaffected." That's just not how it works.

@LordGriffin1000 Are you okay with the proposals in the OP, and the summary I've made here?

Might be about how each person sees it. When someone resists the hax I feel it's not hax being "limited", but the enemy has adequate tool to stop it. Imagine me having a ghost knife but the enemy has non-physical interaction shield, doesn't mean my knife is doing less than it should it's the shield that works like a charm against it. I'm cool with the suggestion, you said tiers will have no impact after change, but everyone in Bleach having degrees of spiritual existence erasure from light to strong based on how they fared near Aizen doesn't feel wrong either.

 

[Damage3245]

How do we know those things are getting erased, though? So far there's not a single statement or implication suggesting Aizen's ability is Existence Erasure. Just seems like a bit of a reach imo.

What would the alternative be? Just Deconstruction?

Because Aizen specifically uses the word "erased". He might not be erasing all aspects of them, but it sure seems like their physical and/or spiritual form is being erased.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

EE is the most straightforward conclusion, yes.

 

[Jibz]

Okay, my following post may be a bit pedantic but that's only because I'm trying to be clearer than I was before.

First, we need to stop looking at this through a "VS Battle Wiki lens". Things like "Tiers" and "Attack Potency" are our terms and don't exist in Bleach, so we need to look at things through a "Bleach lens". Why are the feats that we're discussing from the OP happening in the first place.

Aizen says "Humans can't sense my power because they can't sense spirit energy. But their spirits are unable to withstand my power."

So Aizen's power, AKA his quantity of spirit energy, is having an effect on these humans because they can't withstand his power.

Why can't they withstand his power?

Based on Aizen's statement, the logical conclusion is that their spirits are too weak. They have X amount of energy and that is below the threshold needed to survive in Aizen's presence. This is fairly straightforward to accept for me because we've seen humans be pretty much at the bottom of the list in terms of spiritual energy.

We can see this effect of "withstanding power" in the other example I provided in the OP. Don Kanonji, though he possesses a weak spirit, is not so weak that he can't withstand standing in Aizen's presence for a minute before breaking down in the might of Aizen's passive spiritual energy. (He's not close enough for him to be erased, but close enough for other effects to occur)

So possessing higher amounts of spiritual energy logically makes an individual more able to "withstand Aizen's power".

So if Humans (and others who are weak enough in terms of spirit) can't withstand Aizen's power? They get their existence erased at close range.

If an individual can withstand Aizen's power? Logically they won't get their existence erased at close range.

Now, this isn't about their Tier or Attack Potency. Just because someone can smash a mountain with their bare hands doesn't mean their spirit is "strong" or "weak".

The "strength component" that you mention me talking about isn't to do with their ratings or tiers, it is to do with the strength of their spirit.

As far as I see it personally, there are two options; everyone with spiritual energy gets "Resistance to Existence Erasure" which I don't personally agree with, because I feel that it is misleading. Bleach characters don't resist existence erasure in general. Ichigo and Yhwach are just unaffected by Aizen because their spirits are not weak enough to the point where Aizen's spiritual energy would erase them.

Or we change Aizen's Existence Erasure to "Limited." He only erases individuals and objects whose spirits can't withstand his power. This doesn't mean we look at the characters tiers and say "This guy is Tier 4, so he is unaffected." That's just not how it works.

Straight forward, yet not sparse in details, god i wish more CRT's were like this. You bring up a compelling argument and I would agree if it weren't for Arcker's statement. So for now i'm neutral, but leaning heavily towards agree

 

[Nierre]

Damage FRA

 

[BOEGVELD]

Because Aizen specifically uses the word "erased".

Maybe I'm missing something, but I can't find the word ''erased'' being used after looking through the scans a second time. Not even in the raws. The closest thing to it is ''cease to exist'', but that's not quite the same.

Do we really have enough info and evidence to qualify it as EE?

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Maybe I'm missing something, but I can't find the word ''erased'' being used after looking through the scans a second time. Not even in the raws. The closest thing to it is ''cease to exist'', but that's not quite the same.

Do we really have enough info and evidence to qualify it as EE?

yes, and more stuff in the novels

 

[Damage3245]

Maybe I'm missing something, but I can't find the word ''erased'' being used after looking through the scans a second time. Not even in the raws. The closest thing to it is ''cease to exist'', but that's not quite the same.

Do we really have enough info and evidence to qualify it as EE?

My bad. I meant "cease to exist". I don't know how severe our requirements have to be for EE tbh.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

My bad. I meant "cease to exist". I don't know how severe our requirements have to be for EE tbh.

not really that severe, as long as the character says things like that and when he shows his power nothing of the object is left and there are no counter to his statements like "well, he actually just turn him into molecules and did not really erase"

 

[BOEGVELD]

My bad. I meant "cease to exist". I don't know how severe our requirements have to be for EE tbh.

I'm not sure either, but ''cease to exist'' is a pretty broad term. There's plenty ways to end someone's existence without erasing them.

yes, and more stuff in the novels

Like? Might be useful to link some of the scans.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Okay, my following post may be a bit pedantic but that's only because I'm trying to be clearer than I was before.

First, we need to stop looking at this through a "VS Battle Wiki lens". Things like "Tiers" and "Attack Potency" are our terms and don't exist in Bleach, so we need to look at things through a "Bleach lens". Why are the feats that we're discussing from the OP happening in the first place.

Aizen says "Humans can't sense my power because they can't sense spirit energy. But their spirits are unable to withstand my power."

So Aizen's power, AKA his quantity of spirit energy, is having an effect on these humans because they can't withstand his power.

Why can't they withstand his power?

Based on Aizen's statement, the logical conclusion is that their spirits are too weak. They have X amount of energy and that is below the threshold needed to survive in Aizen's presence. This is fairly straightforward to accept for me because we've seen humans be pretty much at the bottom of the list in terms of spiritual energy.

We can see this effect of "withstanding power" in the other example I provided in the OP. Don Kanonji, though he possesses a weak spirit, is not so weak that he can't withstand standing in Aizen's presence for a minute before breaking down in the might of Aizen's passive spiritual energy. (He's not close enough for him to be erased, but close enough for other effects to occur)

So possessing higher amounts of spiritual energy logically makes an individual more able to "withstand Aizen's power".

So if Humans (and others who are weak enough in terms of spirit) can't withstand Aizen's power? They get their existence erased at close range.

If an individual can withstand Aizen's power? Logically they won't get their existence erased at close range.

Now, this isn't about their Tier or Attack Potency. Just because someone can smash a mountain with their bare hands doesn't mean their spirit is "strong" or "weak".

The "strength component" that you mention me talking about isn't to do with their ratings or tiers, it is to do with the strength of their spirit.

As far as I see it personally, there are two options; everyone with spiritual energy gets "Resistance to Existence Erasure" which I don't personally agree with, because I feel that it is misleading. Bleach characters don't resist existence erasure in general. Ichigo and Yhwach are just unaffected by Aizen because their spirits are not weak enough to the point where Aizen's spiritual energy would erase them.

Or we change Aizen's Existence Erasure to "Limited." He only erases individuals and objects whose spirits can't withstand his power. This doesn't mean we look at the characters tiers and say "This guy is Tier 4, so he is unaffected." That's just not how it works.

@LordGriffin1000 Are you okay with the proposals in the OP, and the summary I've made here?

I agree with this, changing it to limited for these reasons seem fine to me at least.

 

[Damage3245]

I agree with this, changing it to limited for these reasons seem fine to me at least.

Okay, thank you for responding.

With UchihaSlayer, KingTempest and LordGriffing's approval I think I can make the changes but since Arcker said he'd make a response I'll hold off on applying it for now.

 

[QuasiYuri]

Does anyone know where to find japanese scans for Bleach? I have the first page's one but not Aizen's statement itself.
Just wanna check.

 

[BOEGVELD]

Does anyone know where to find japanese scans for Bleach? I have the first page's one but not Aizen's statement itself.
Just wanna check.

You mean these? Could only find the colored ones though.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Or we change Aizen's Existence Erasure to "Limited." He only erases individuals and objects whose spirits can't withstand his power. This doesn't mean we look at the characters tiers and say "This guy is Tier 4, so he is unaffected." That's just not how it works.

This is good, and ig it'll get quantified more whenever the soul potency/layering for Bleach gets finished started.

 

[QuasiYuri]

You mean these? Could only find the colored ones though.

Yeah. Wording's slighly different.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

started.

u lazy

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

u lazy

Why does it have to be me

 

[KillerNerd007]

Okay, my following post may be a bit pedantic but that's only because I'm trying to be clearer than I was before.

First, we need to stop looking at this through a "VS Battle Wiki lens". Things like "Tiers" and "Attack Potency" are our terms and don't exist in Bleach, so we need to look at things through a "Bleach lens". Why are the feats that we're discussing from the OP happening in the first place.

Aizen says "Humans can't sense my power because they can't sense spirit energy. But their spirits are unable to withstand my power."

So Aizen's power, AKA his quantity of spirit energy, is having an effect on these humans because they can't withstand his power.

Why can't they withstand his power?

Based on Aizen's statement, the logical conclusion is that their spirits are too weak. They have X amount of energy and that is below the threshold needed to survive in Aizen's presence. This is fairly straightforward to accept for me because we've seen humans be pretty much at the bottom of the list in terms of spiritual energy.

We can see this effect of "withstanding power" in the other example I provided in the OP. Don Kanonji, though he possesses a weak spirit, is not so weak that he can't withstand standing in Aizen's presence for a minute before breaking down in the might of Aizen's passive spiritual energy. (He's not close enough for him to be erased, but close enough for other effects to occur)

So possessing higher amounts of spiritual energy logically makes an individual more able to "withstand Aizen's power".

So if Humans (and others who are weak enough in terms of spirit) can't withstand Aizen's power? They get their existence erased at close range.

If an individual can withstand Aizen's power? Logically they won't get their existence erased at close range.

Now, this isn't about their Tier or Attack Potency. Just because someone can smash a mountain with their bare hands doesn't mean their spirit is "strong" or "weak".

The "strength component" that you mention me talking about isn't to do with their ratings or tiers, it is to do with the strength of their spirit.

As far as I see it personally, there are two options; everyone with spiritual energy gets "Resistance to Existence Erasure" which I don't personally agree with, because I feel that it is misleading. Bleach characters don't resist existence erasure in general. Ichigo and Yhwach are just unaffected by Aizen because their spirits are not weak enough to the point where Aizen's spiritual energy would erase them.

Or we change Aizen's Existence Erasure to "Limited." He only erases individuals and objects whose spirits can't withstand his power. This doesn't mean we look at the characters tiers and say "This guy is Tier 4, so he is unaffected." That's just not how it works.

@LordGriffin1000 Are you okay with the proposals in the OP, and the summary I've made here?

I think Arc's explanation was more likely, considering the scans you provided as well also prove his argument. I don't think the change is needed.

 

[BOEGVELD]

Yeah. Wording's slighly different.

So what does it say?