Ragna the Bloodedge vs Kharn the Betrayer

[MarvelFanatic119]

The Bloodedge takes on The Betrayer!

Ragna with the Black Beast's powers

In character

No prior knowledge

Starts off at melee range for both

Location: Empty barren planet

Win via KO, Death, Incapacitation or BFR

Who wins and why?

Kharn the Betrayer


Ragna The Bloodedge


VS.

 

[Lina_Shields]

I should go with Kharn for this greater battle experience as well as surviving hits from the Primarchs, who are way stronger than him in general.

I am however concerned about Ragna's final attach however: Astral Heat: Black Onslaught:. Would that be enough to blast through Kharn's armor and put him down for good?

A slice of Gorechild would likely put Ragna down for the count.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

If it works like it's described in Ragna's profile, then it should. Though I think it depends whether or not Ragna will have time to use it before Kharn takes him out, as it's his final move I'm not sure if he'll use it so early in the battle.

 

[Lina_Shields]

Keep in mind that the tiering for the two characters will relatively be the same as Kharn may be getting a slight upgrade in tiering.

Right now however, we are reviewing their 5-C versions, correct?

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

Pretty much, yeah.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Marvel, i kind of wonder if you were waiting for the day Ragna got upgraded. Then again, all of us are the same here every time something happens to any character. xD

Anyways, it seems pretty close from what Perp told me. Though Lina is right in that Kharn is in the process of having a tier/stat update that will make this fight even more fair if anything. But aside that, i'm really not sure who takes this. Ragna being from Moon to Small Planet means he likely has the AP and Dura advantage (though Kharn is likely not far behind it). Kharn does however has the combat speed and reactions advantage, tho idk by how much as Ragna's at his most is like SoL.

One interesting thing that Perp told me about is that Ragna's powers would not be interfered with since it's apparently capable of being prevented from sealed away from some Low 2-C beings, meaning Ragna retains his powers and making this interesting. Tho i kind of wonder if his Black Onslaught could breach his armor tho....and also weather Kharn's gorechild axe would take out Ragna in one hit given that Ragna has resistance to soul hax....but not dura negation hax tho....hmm...

Very interesting match up here....

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

Thank you, Cross. I am flattered you think I planned that far ahead in time but unfortunately my thought process for making this match was:

"Oh, Ragna got an upgrade, cool"

"Hey, his stats are like Kharn's and his hax won't be negated or nerfed but also not too much for Kharn"

"They also are red and have big weapons that slice people, and they have "The" in their titles!"

"Okay, let's make 'em fight "

Also, Kharn got bumped up to Low 5-B with a likely far higher on top, making this even more even.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Just to bump this and answer back to ya.

Yeah i saw Azzy update Kharn and other 40K characters to this level, which definitely makes this fair if you use all of their possible tiers.

Though there is the fact that Kharn's gorechild axe can at least still ignore dura, meaning one good solid hit should still hurt Ragna despite his resistance to soul damage even.

I may lean towards Kharn here more on that, however...

 

[Lina_Shields]

I am leaning more towards Kharn on this matchup, due to him having generally more experience as well as his Gorechild being able to suck Ragna's soul with a single direct hit.

If Azzy's statement regarding Kharn's powers being superior to the Primarchs is true, then Kharn should have this as he should be much stronger than what his tiering suggests.

Plus Kharn has a durability advantage compared to Ragna as he is heavily armored/Daemonic Power Armor, meaning Ragna's sword strikes won't hurt as much. He has taken blows from Angron and survived after all.

Kharn has also has an intelligence advantage, due to him being a master strategist and combat tactician despite being mad with power. He'll likely be able to take advantage of Ragna's short temper as well as being able to be easily provoked, which is fatal in a duel against someone of Kharn's caliber.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

Thanks for the input guys! Much appreciated.

Kharn: 2

Ragna: 0

Inconclusive: 0

Anyone else?

 

[ThePerpetual]

I think I'll back Ragna on this one.

Why?

For starters, that sixth sense of his will probably keep him from anything too horribly stupid, seeing as it's bordering on minor precog, as well as warn him that trying to block the Gorechild with a magical barrier is probably a bad idea. That, in combination with his more versatile attack set and combat-applicable powers in general, ought to deal with Kharn's tactics and intelligence advantages. Furthermore, given his hefty advantages in both range and movement speed, it's fairly likely that Ragna can kite him around for a bit and whittle him down with multi/omni-directional energy blasts, or restrain him with an imprisoning glyph to set up for a quick finish (once he realizes how strong Kharn is, and thus it becomes in character for him to not keep charging had-first into battle like a dumbass).

Two points to counter: for starters, Kharn having heavier armor likely isn't going to be all that a help. Ragna fights Hakumen, literally a suit of armor and also generally in his weight class, all the time; on top of that, his energy attacks are just going to hit through the gaps in the armor (such as the visor), and one arm is entirely unprotected, so there's that. Another, the idea that Gorechild would be a one-hit KO and instantly kill Ragna/put him out of comission? Not sure I buy that. Ragna's been impaled all the way through by weapons roughly the size of Gorechild and made it through the ordeal, no reason to believe this'd be any different. "But what of the soul hax?" one might ask. Well, heh...

Time to provide a sense of scale.

Arakune, an exceptionally strong-willed individual, touched the Boundary for a mere second and instantly was soul-screwed sideways, becoming the nigh-mindless blob we see now. Hakumen, on the other hand, sat there in the same Boundary for literally an entire century or so and emerged more or less unscathed spiritually. Ragna's soul hax, even without his seithr, is potent enough to bypass this nigh-immunity of Hakumen's, and Hakumen wields a Nox Nyctores: a weapon that inflicts scarring of the soul deliberately created to be more potent than any random weapons that one could find lying about (i.e. the Blood-Scythe.)

The fact that Ragna's soul doesn't disappear instantly when poked by this thing for one microsecond? ...I'm fairly certain that the Gorechild isn't going to soul-steal him in one hit.

In fact... I'm actually fairly sure that Ragna might be able to breach Khorne's collar.

To explain: Since Ragna now possesses an IDEA Engine, his powers tied to his Azure Grimoire are effectively unsealable/negateable. How much does this extend to? Well, it can dispel Phenomenon Intervention, which entities as powerful as Hades: Izanami and the Takamagahara use to reality-warp on a universal scale, what with their timeloop nonsense and all, so it's at least comparable to that hax-wise. From what I'm reading of Khorne's profile, his hax only really exceeds that within the Warp: outside of the warp, his influence wouldn't we anything more potent than what the IDEA Engine has negated before (And Ragna/The Black Beast exist outside of Logic, so Khorne seemingly doing something simialr owuldn't help either), meaning it's immunities would be negated, or at the very least contended. Combined with the sheep resistance penetration on all of Ragna's Black Seithr, Kharn would be put in a really new and awkward situation in that his god can't protect him from his enemy's hax fully, and Ragna's wounds would be healed a bit with his hits.

On top of all of this, the actual yield for Ragna's brand of Small Planet level was a whole 10 times that of Kharn's. While Kharn is likely considerably higher than the number given: potentially beyond Ragna's, maybe: nothing seems to suggest that it's so far past that, should Kharn throw a punch, Ragna throwing one back to intercept it wouldn't result in his arm snapping like a Slim Jim.

Don't get me wrong, it's pretty darn close (and a really good match-up, too, imo), but I'm thinking Bloodedge will ultimately take it more times of ten.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

Thank you Perpetual for your opinion.

Ragna: 1

Kharn: 2

Inconclusive: 0

Anyone else?

 

[Zeldasmash]

Yeah, i'm giving the very slight edge to Ragna due to what ThePerpetual said. It's a very close match though.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Hmm... I'd probably say Kharn in a very close fight.

Ragna is has a good deal more versatility, and faster movement speed by a great deal, but Kharn likely has the edge in reactions, and definitely has the edge in skill, which I think is more than enough to prevent Ragna's sixth sense from supplying him with an edge on the cqc front.

Ragna has very solid soul resistance, so I doubt Gorechild would do him in with a single direct hit, but it's guaranteed to hurt quite a lot, and Kharn is adept at landing hits with it. Not sure on if Khorne would be able to fully interfere with Ragna's abilities due to them being out of his best range, though I suppose that actually depends on a multitude of things. The most important of which is if this battle is taking place in 40k's universe. One of the absolute biggest limiters of the Chaos Gods' influence in realspace is the Emperor himself specifically holding them back with his massive Warp presence. If he's not doing that here, Kharn is going to be granted quite a bit more protection by his God, seeing as Khorne isn't going to have to worry about Big E.

Still, even assuming he's being held back, I doubt he'd be completely unable to throw a wrench into some of Ragna's powers if he tried using them on Kharn. He's stopped sorcerers from beyond physics and logic from affecting Kharn, so his protection is quite solid. In fact, going by statements that Kharn has killed numerous daemons within the Eye of Terror, said protection is likely immensely beyond mere universal in scale, unless Kharn could take on Solar System sized daemons who can create and destroy universes with their minds without Khorne's blessings keeping him safe, which even for him, I doubt is the case.

There's also the fact that I can't really see Ragna possessing anything Kharn hasn't seen before, or at least not nearly enough to put him in a situation where he's unable to formulate a plan. He's lived for over ten thousand years and fought a multitude of foes with insane abilities. He's fought some of the most trained warriors to ever live, taught to be able to come up with entire plans in under a nanosecond, and come out on top. He's fought space robots who have technology that breaks apart atoms and literally transcends the laws of physics, and he came out on top. He's fought daemonic forces who can change reality with nothing but a spoken word, and still managed to come out on top, even when his foes thought they'd finished him. He's pretty damn hardcore.

In fact, the thing that would give him the most trouble would simply be fighting a foe drastically physically stronger than he is, because Kharn would never dream of using any sort of cheap tricks or plans he deemed dishonorable. Ragna, even not taking into account his abilities, should probably be in the same league as Kharn physically, which means he'll definitely be a challenge. However, I do believe that one of the main things that would tilt this in Kharn's favor more times than not, even if slightly, is experience. It's not some minor difference, or even just a case of Kharn being "really good". He's been doing what he does for centuries upon centuries upon centuries, against nearly every type of foe you can imagine. Kharn has been outmatched in power, speed, range, versatility, size, etc., and often to a very great degree. Despite this, his raw tactical skill and insanely superhuman sense of planning and strategy allowed him to fell his foes. Despite being known for running straight into combat and waving his axe like a maniac, this is not something he does to battles he isn't 100% certain he can handle. Abaddon even mentions that many make the dire mistake of thinking Kharn is nothing more than a bloodthirsty maniac, only to wind up dead before they even know what hit them, despite the odds seemingly being in their favor. If Kharn sees an opportunity for victory against a strong foe, he won't kid around. He'll analyze every aspect of the fight, constantly looking for an opening to go for the kill, and the nanosecond that opportunity opens up, he'll take it.

In short, I'd give it to the former World Eater in a very, very close fight. Not really sure how many times out of ten, but incredibly close. Ragna is definitely a foe Kharn would have to take incredibly seriously.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

Thanks for that, Azzy. Great insight on the fight there.

Kharn: 3

Ragna: 2

Inconclusive: 0

Anyone else?