[R1M4] Bob Ragelot vs Laser Frogman's Core (STOMP)

[ThePrimalHunter]

Round 1 Match 4 of the FC/OC Battles Wiki 8-B Swiss Tournament

Current Match: Bob Ragelot vs Laser Frogman's core

Ground Rules:

• Laser Frogmans core is 8-B
• Speed is equal
• Neither have any prior knowledge
• Fight takes place on top of Mount Everest
• They start 20m away from each other

Bob Ragelot is 79 Tons of TnT
Laser Frogmans core is 15.08 Tons of TnT

FIGHT!

Bob Ragelot: 0 ()
Laser Frogman's core: 0 ()
Incon: 0 ()

 

[Diamond_Drone]

Well starting with the most obvious advantage, Bob is about 5.24x stronger than the Core which is actually one-shot range. Maybe the Core can do something insane things with his hax, but we'll have to wait for the creator to respond.

As far as how I see things based on what I read on the profile, the other advantages look like this:

• The Cores defensive abilities for increasing durability (ex: forcefield and bone skin) wouldn't effect Bob given the major AP advantage and his blades being able to cut through steel with heat.
• Can likely deal with the Core's "Heat Damage" as he has survived vaporizing attacks and close contact with Lava.
• Can also deal with Core's "Emphasise with me" and temporary paralysis, given that he resisted Derpfestor's Neural Parasite, which is shown to fully paralyse and take contol of a target's team color, which is shown to immediately switch morality multiple times.

The only advantage the Core seems to have is having higher LS, which is hardly going to matter when Bob kicks it off the mountain.

This might be a stomp, but if the Laser Core's creator can somehow argue why it isn't a stomp (maybe the heat thing?), then I'm going to vote for Bob.

 

[Froggytron]

Well, as the fight is on Mount Everest, and the poor Core has an enemy in front with seemingly higher AP and abilities, the Core would probably want to avoid the conflict and would jump down, using stretching blood fists and knives to safely climb down the mountain, effectively self-BFRing itself.

So this seems more like a stomp rather than a won fight, I agree.

 

[HonestlyBored24]

Well, as the fight is on Mount Everest, and the poor Core has an enemy in front with seemingly higher AP and abilities, the Core would probably want to avoid the conflict and would jump down, using stretching blood fists and knives to safely climb down the mountain, effectively self-BFRing itself.

So this seems more like a stomp rather than a won fight, I agree.

SBA prevents fighters from simply throwing the fight without Social Influencing of Mind Manipulation involved.

 

[Froggytron]

SBA prevents fighters from simply throwing the fight without Social Influencing of Mind Manipulation involved.

Can't the core simply use its own Social Influencing to convince itself, that escaping from this fight would be for the best?

 

[Froggytron]

Maybe the Core can do something insane things with his hax, but we'll have to wait for the creator to respond.

But now I think about it again, the core could also make this match Incon with powerful dodging (blood hands with superior LS can grab by mountain parts and the powerful blood pumping (the core is a heart from 1/2), can work as speed amp grabbing hooks.

It helps that Bob Ragelot doesn't seem to have any ranged attacks, and that the Core is mostly resistant to Temperature Manipulation and immune to Radiation Manipulation, so it can't be slayed by the Psi Blades aura. Also, has Bob Ragelot any means to stay on Mouth Everest's top fighting arena, where wind currents are reaching 160kmh speeds?

 

[Diamond_Drone]

But now I think about it again, the core could also make this match Incon with powerful dodging

He would already be familiar with this sort of thing and this against an opponent who was physically comparable to him (being able to take hits and deal it back), meaning he could actually block with physical attacks.

And given that Speed is equalized and his opponent is now significantly weaker, relying on only dodges would be quite difficult for him against this Zealot.

blood hands with superior LS can grab by mountain parts

I'm assuming this supposed to some sort of shield? Well let's see how good it would be against Bob by looking at how much it can withstand.

On the Core's profile it says he has LS of "Class K with pumped blood hands and more AP energy", so I'm going to assume this is his peak strength. Class K is at minimum of 100 Tons or 100,000 kilograms and Rock has a density of 2700 kg/m^3, meaning that with both hands he holds about 37 m^3 or 37,000,000cc

It takes only 8 Joules per Cubic Centimeter (J/cc) to fragment rock, meaning the minimum requirement to break this block 296 Megajoules or 0.07 Tons of TNT.

Not even close

and the powerful blood pumping (the core is a heart from 1/2), can work as speed amp grabbing hooks.

Shouldn't that speed amp be on the profile then? Also if it's being used to grab rocks that shatter like glass against Bob, then that's quite a waste of an ability.

It helps that Bob Ragelot doesn't seem to have any ranged attacks, and that the Core is mostly resistant to Temperature Manipulation and immune to Radiation Manipulation, so it can't be slayed by the Psi Blades aura.

Yeah Bob doesn't really have any ranged options, however stronger Protoss units have been shown to take advantage of enemies who have ranged attacks that utilize their own body parts, even after they could land a hit first.

Core's abilities are worded in a way that seems that they use physical attacks rather than energy attacks, meaning that the Core is leaving himself to be cut apart if he attempts to attack Bob.

Also Bob doesn't use radiation, he's resistant to it. And Core's resistance to heat (when compared to Laser Frogs) appears to be comparable to Bob's resistance to heat, so pretty decent.

Oh, and Bob still has that 5.24x strength advantage. So just because the Core has comparable resistance to heat as him doesn't make it anymore survivable when his attacks that don't utilize heat are still as strong.

Also, has Bob Ragelot any means to stay on Mouth Everest's top fighting arena, where wind currents are reaching 160kmh speeds?

Those wind currents are a big threat for humans. However Bob is significantly stronger than the average human, can match speeds with a death ball consisting of warriors and war machines (thus having a significantly higher mass and energy than the wind) and climb cliff sides using his blades as hands.

 

[Froggytron]

My my, I see you completely misunderstood most of the message I sent.

He would already be familiar with this sort of thing and this against an opponent who was physically comparable to him (being able to take hits and deal it back), meaning he could actually block with physical attacks.

The Core wanted to escape, yet SBA didn't allow him. So the goal of the Core is now Incon. The Core won't attack Bob Ragelot even once, defeating him is not the Core's goal.

And given that Speed is equalized and his opponent is now significantly weaker, relying on only dodges would be quite difficult for him against this Zealot.

Not if the base Frogman's core is his opponent. By grappling hook, I meant this. The core will stretch its blood hands similarly, will grab the point of the mountain at which it wants to get, and will be pulled there, with enormous speed. That's how the Core can avoid every Bob Ragelot attack, which is short melee. The Core can even double the AP of its hands, giving them more energy, and more pulling speed.

+I see that Bob can hold in the currents as well. 5.24x strength or not, it won't make a difference if Core can dodge, and even create a small portal, through which only a small Core can fit through, escaping even in the worst situation. Thus, Im voting Incon FRA.

 

[Diamond_Drone]

The Core wanted to escape, yet SBA didn't allow him. So the goal of the Core is now Incon.

SBA is not some kind of entity that forces people to things, it's just assumptions that need to be followed when none are stated by the thread creator.

Also the SBA's "rules" for the characters knowledge of eachother is "equivalent to the knowledge they could have gained if they would have been allowed to briefly observe the form opponent(s) starting in using their senses of sight, hearing, smell, taste and touch" and the rules of this tournament specify that both have no prior knowledge. So how is the Core deciding that Bob is too strong and that he must change goals (one that wouldn't even give him Incon anyways, but I'll get to that) without any sort of Information Analysis and before Bob kicks them into the stratosphere in less than 2.35 seconds?

The Core won't attack Bob Ragelot even once, defeating him is not the Core's goal.

...so Bob just chases them until either characters stamina runs out, Core runs himself into a corner or the Core slips up and gives Bob an opening.

Not if the base Frogman's core is his opponent. By grappling hook, I meant this. The core will stretch its blood hands similarly, will grab the point of the mountain at which it wants to get, and will be pulled there, with enormous speed. That's how the Core can avoid every Bob Ragelot attack, which is short melee. The Core can even double the AP of its hands, giving them more energy, and more pulling speed.

Alright, it seems I have misunderstood the point of the grapple (however you did mention LS, you can see how I would be confused right?), but this doesn't make much of a difference anyway.

2x speed amp is not an incredibly large gap, the difference between an average human and a peak human is only about 2.5x and that's assuming both are moving constantly without any changes. Here the Core is rapidly changing from superfast to still, deciding where to grab next while an angry cartoon alien chases them (who also has a short burst speed boosting ability). The grapple would also need to reach it's destination before it can pull the Core away.

Spoiler: Funny Long Grapple Calc

Let's say that the Core somehow managed to grapple to it's peak range (100m) and began pulling themself while Bob is only (for this example) 1 second or 8.48 meters away (based on the speed Bob scales to)? Assuming the 2x boost is the same for speed, they would be moving at 16.96 m/s (speed is equalized to the slower character) and reach their destination in 5.9 seconds. For Bob to reach the Core now (108.48m away) he would have to charge for 12.8 seconds. With this we can figure out how much time the Core has to plan it's next grapple.

12.8s - 5.9s = 6.9s

Now the Core has to decide where to shoot next and if it spents even a single second too long to think, Bob would be able to grab or one-shot them before it's grapple can reach another 100m. This would lead the Core to try to grapple to places that take less than 5.9s to reach, shortening the distance between the Core and Bob while giving the Core less time to breath.

Even then, this is assuming that they manage to grapple away before the battle even begins because, as mentioned above, Bob would only need to charge for less than 2.35 seconds just to be in range of the Core and the grapple can only reach distances that are less than 39.85 meters in that amount of time.

Unless the grapple is significantly faster than 2x equalized speed, but then why would they be running away from Bob?

it won't make a difference if Core can dodge, and even create a small portal, through which only a small Core can fit through, escaping even in the worst situation.

So it BFR's an entirely smaller, presumably weaker chunk of itself to survive if it gets caught? That's still a Bob win if it can't return in a week (assuming it even wants to return to a match where it gets stomped even harder than before).

Funnily enough, a similar situation happend to a Mothership Core within the animated series as well.

 

[Froggytron]

To understand this match better (and because the series looked good), I watched several StarCrafts episodes. Some unit is super tanky, some unit summons alien smaller troops and some ships do this, yet especially, I saw Bob Ragelot not doing much. He just has immerse willpower and good luck in numerous situations where he would get doomed, I just don't see how he can catch the core and "kill" it this way...

without any sort of Information Analysis and before Bob kicks them into the stratosphere in less than 2.35 seconds?

There are a ton of arguments for this, namely: Enhanced Senses, Telepathy, and "Avoiding any difficult conflict and regenerating back into the original form as fast as possible" in Standard Tactics.

...so Bob just chases them until either characters stamina runs out, Core runs himself into a corner or the Core slips up and gives Bob an opening.

That's why I think it Incon, if Bob Ragelot won't manage to strike the Core anyhow. The Core is still at least Genius (half of its body is a brain after all), the chances of the Core not calculating "jumping/grappling pulling" dodges well are just minimal. Bob is short melee and predictable on top of that, not having any ranged attacks. And as you mention, the Core could even come back (as a smaller Core) if it messes up (which has a truly low percentage rate, + the Mothership Core scene is actually funny XD)

2x speed amp is not an incredibly large gap

Pulling/shooting grappling hands 2x as fast sure is a difference. Also, due to Core brain calculations, the core is still in movement when it shoots the grappling hook, as it bounces against the ground (the brain side is bouncy after all, pumping heart too to some degree) like a hoppy ball.

Even then, this is assuming that they manage to grapple away before the battle even begins because, as mentioned above, Bob would only need to charge for less than 2.35 seconds just to be in range of the Core and the grapple can only reach distances that are less than 39.85 meters in that amount of time.

Unless the grapple is significantly faster than 2x equalized speed, but then why would they be running away from Bob?

Woah, the calculations are immersing, I acknowledge the efforts! 39.85 meters of grappling movements are more than enough. Also, hope it's clear the Core has several grappling hooks (as the blood hands come from heart veins... there are several of them), the Core can grapple at a point with multiple blood hands (gaining further multiplied speed of pulling, multiplying even the 2x speed), or can shoot grappling hooks into different locations separately, and pull by need. If the Bob runs at the original destination of pulling, the Core will just stop pulling that way and starts pulling in the other direction (with secondhand placed that way). The heart half of the core fully dictates "which arm is pulling and which stays loose", while the brain half ensures, that the Core's movements have millimeter precision.


The more I look into and study this match, the more it radiates as 'Incon' to me.

 

[Volt12121]

I'm not quite sure how it's an incon? Pretty sure the core running away would be considered a form of self-BFR, so running away just result in it losing.

 

[Froggytron]

I'm not quite sure how it's an incon? Pretty sure the core running away would be considered a form of self-BFR, so running away just result in it losing.

The thing is, by SBA rules, the Core can't just run away (discovered that "super early" lol). So the Core starts dodging the short melee attacks (using its blood arms as super-fast grappling hooks, it's described way more detailed above), trying to win by depleting Bob's stamina (or both depleting it). So Incon seems the fairest in this scenario, as Bob can't shoot the Core (without any ranged attacks) and probably won't land a single melee hit on it.

 

[MintyBoi1]

I’m leaning Bob because while the Core can dodge greatly, he still seems pretty competent in a fight given the clips and scaling to other Protoss. Bob could eventually land a hit as both have similar stamina and he’s a warrior of some kind which would severely damage the Core given the AP difference and the fact his hands are blades

 

[Froggytron]

Btw, does Zealot age and die with old age? Worth noting, that even if the Core doesn't attack, it still should cause a decent age manipulation effect with splashing blood everywhere (from constant grappling by pure-blood hands), so there is no way Bob can avoid all blood while rushing at Core. Age manipulation is caused by 'BloodTimer' being BFR's along with brain + heart of the original approximately Low 7-C base stage1 Frogman => 'BloodTimer' is located in the Core. It is described with details in the base stage1 equipment section.

 

[Froggytron]

Bump (this match is kind of ironic, it's either close Incon, or solely Stomp, as other than "depleting Bob's stamina first" the core can't make a single attack/hax usable. Bob can easily cut through incoming blood hands, has an AP advantage, and even resists all the Brain-half can do (paralysis / Emotion Manip / limited Mind Manip by confusing enemies).

 

[Froggytron]

Funnily enough, a similar situation happend to a Mothership Core within the animated series as well.

Bump

 

[MintyBoi1]

I’ll just vote Bob

 

[Froggytron]

I’ll just vote Bob

But isn't it a stomp at this point? Besides exhausting Bob first (which still isn't a win-coin, as both can get evenly exhausted, Incon in other words), the Core literally can't do anything, all of its hax's and moves are 100% countered by Bob's arsenal.

 

[MintyBoi1]

Yeah so he’ll get the 2 stomp points, that’s how the rules work

 

[ExSENNA]

Bob stomps fra

 

[Froggytron]

Seems like the fight made a giant circle.... and returned to its starting point. But I still got a lot of knowledge from this!

The next matches of the 8-B tournament can take place finally

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

Stomp win for Bob. +2 points for Bob, -1 point for Laser Frogman's core

Next match is in production

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

Next match is up