[R1M1] Vene's Country Class Tourney: BLU Heavy vs Black☆Star

[VeneficaAuthor]

Original Tourney Thread
Tourney Bracket
Votes

Character	Key	Votes
BLU Heavy​	Pootis Engage // EXTREME	0
Black☆Star​	Grigori Arc to Dark Side of the Moon Arc	Grace
Inconclusive		0

Welcome to VeneficaAuthor's Country Class Tourney! In this tourney 16 country class heavyweights are competing for a special championship. There can only be one champion, so may the strongest win!

In the first match, it'll be BLU Heavy vs Black☆Star!

Rules

• 100 meters starting distance with equal speed.
• Speed Equalized
• Fight takes place in an endlessly expansive and empty/ruined city

Black☆Star is at High 6-B.
BLU Heavy is at 6-B.

 

[MintyBoi1]

Gotta start with the best it seems. Going off Heavy’s 36.3 Teraton calc which I think is his best, Black Star is 18.3x stronger AP wise and he stomps in LS. The main things Heavy has are High-Mid regen and energy manip/explosions. Though Black Star has both. It looked like after being cut into pieces, Heavy was incapacitated as well. Even if Black Star can’t kill Heavy, he could surely outlast him or knock him out, strangling him with Chain of Blackness should do.

Voting the Big Guy.

 

[MintyBoi1]

Ok I thought the regen link was the same as the one where Heavy breaks his neck, he did get back up after being cut into pieces. But everything else still stands.

 

[Javenplayz253]

☆ fra

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Shouldn’t we wait for a BLU heavy argument before FRA chaining

 

[MintyBoi1]

Yeah, btw who submitted him?

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Yeah, btw who submitted him?

I’d have to go way back, I think he was submitted around the start

 

[Froggytron]

Gotta start with the best it seems. Going off Heavy’s 36.3 Teraton calc which I think is his best, Black Star is 18.3x stronger AP wise and he stomps in LS. The main things Heavy has are High-Mid regen and energy manip/explosions. Though Black Star has both. It looked like after being cut into pieces, Heavy was incapacitated as well. Even if Black Star can’t kill Heavy, he could surely outlast him or knock him out, strangling him with Chain of Blackness should do.

Voting the Big Guy.

It won't be that simple, bringing his arguments from Stage 3 + Gunnix clashing with Blue Heavy + The Player:

"BLU Heavy will probably start by summoning RED Heavy, who has the same stats but different abilities (most notable for this matchup specifically being his teleportation, allowing him to go in-and-out with precise strikes pretty much instantly), and then engaging in Hand-to-Hand Combat with explosive attacks.

Blue can casually dodge 2x bullets with his 25x-33x reaction advantage (though against the bullets it would be 12.5x-16.5x, still a massive enough advantage). RED Heavy should also be able to bypass bariers with his teleportation."

BLU Heavy has an absurd reaction speed helping him in combat along with regen (not sure what reaction speed Black☆Star has compared to his combat one, it could possibly reduce/counter the advantage), with which he will be attempting to keep dodging and deal rushes of rapidly throwing punches causing explosions. As well there is the Red Assisting, teleporting in the worst moments to deal hits at weak spots.

 

[Diamond_Drone]

Well, not me, but I can still try arguing for the Heavy's side even though he's like... at a massive AP and LS disadvantage?

Firstly, the Heavy seems to have a massive range advantage of having kilometers with his sniper rifle (which he is shown spamming even at closer ranges) and his other tricks (like grabbing the letterboxing to hit his opponent with and energy beams), meanwhile Black Star has... at most Extended Melee Range with Tsubaki?

Other things that BLU Heavy has is summoning a RED Heavy who is capable of one-frame teleportation attacks, Phasing through solid objects and actively see the battlefield from the Animator's POV.

Also about that Regen thing, he completely recovered like the Soldier did no damage to him and then instantly one-shot him as soon as his revive animation finished. Don't think that really changes the fact that Black Star seems to have the advantage in everything else, maybe more things than I know about.

 

[MintyBoi1]

"BLU Heavy will probably start by summoning RED Heavy, who has the same stats but different abilities (most notable for this matchup specifically being his teleportation, allowing him to go in-and-out with precise strikes pretty much instantly), and then engaging in Hand-to-Hand Combat with explosive attacks.

Blue can casually dodge 2x bullets with his 25x-33x reaction advantage (though against the bullets it would be 12.5x-16.5x, still a massive enough advantage). RED Heavy should also be able to bypass bariers with his teleportation."

BLU Heavy has an absurd reaction speed helping him in combat along with regen (not sure what reaction speed Black☆Star has compared to his combat one, it could possibly reduce/counter the advantage), with which he will be attempting to keep dodging and deal rushes of rapidly throwing punches causing explosions. As well there is the Red Assisting, teleporting in the worst moments to deal hits at weak spots.

Teleportation and explosions are something, though Black Star can fly and fought Kishin Asura who’s 800 years old and a skilled combatant. Going hand to hand is a bad idea given that skill and weapons. Black Star also has Severed Shadow which can make afterimages taking his place and tricking the opponent into thinking they hit the real Black Star before getting hit themselves. BLU doesn’t seem smart enough to get that in a decent timeframe and a single hit can reduce him to pieces.

Isn’t this speed equalized? How would that apply here? But Black Star is also great on the fly, instinctively adopting advantageous stances and changing the flow of his movements. And he can tank anything BLU throws at him with so much better physicality.

Firstly, the Heavy seems to have a massive range advantage of having kilometers with his sniper rifle (which he is shown spamming even at closer ranges) and his other tricks (like grabbing the letterboxing to hit his opponent with and energy beams), meanwhile Black Star has... at most Extended Melee Range with Tsubaki?

Other things that BLU Heavy has is summoning a RED Heavy who is capable of one-frame teleportation attacks, Phasing through solid objects and actively see the battlefield from the Animator's POV.

Also about that Regen thing, he completely recovered like the Soldier did no damage to him and then instantly one-shot him as soon as his revive animation finished. Don't think that really changes the fact that Black Star seems to have the advantage in everything else, maybe more things than I know about.

Range advantage is something, but Black Star can fly, use Severed Shadow, and tank bullets.

The Red Heavy seems tough, but it’ll still struggle to deal any damage and Black Star has non-physical interaction, defying logic by grabbing light plus he can weaponize his own soul, so intangibility may be a no go.

The regen would help, but incap should let Black Star win or maybe he just kills BLU until he’s too tired to fight. He surely wouldn’t back down first with his endurance showings.

 

[MintyBoi1]

Can RED also regenerate? He seems like BLU’s best chance so him dying quickly is bad.

 

[Diamond_Drone]

Isn’t this speed equalized? How would that apply here?

That means the combat speed of the faster character gets reduced to match the slower character, but other forms of speed (like reaction and attack speed) maintain the same ratio as before. So BLU and RED Heavy do have a 25x-33x reaction advantage, giving him a lot of chances to adapt to whatever his opponent comes up with.

The regen would help, but incap should let Black Star win or maybe he just kills BLU until he’s too tired to fight. He surely wouldn’t back down first with his endurance showings.

How long can he fight? I know Heavy can fight for like several minutes before damage becomes "lethal" but Black Star's page mentions him fighting "for a lengthy period of time while taking grevious injuries" and also that "his stamina is drained more quickly while using Tsubaki's shadow forms".

Can RED also regenerate? He seems like BLU’s best chance so him dying quickly is bad.

I don't think that was ever shown for him so... no. Though its worth mentioning that RED stays out of range while BLU is fighting and taking most of the attention. With his reactions, it would be quite impossible to catch him before he teleports away so he might stay in the fight for a while.

 

[MintyBoi1]

That means the combat speed of the faster character gets reduced to match the slower character, but other forms of speed (like reaction and attack speed) maintain the same ratio as before. So BLU and RED Heavy do have a 25x-33x reaction advantage, giving him a lot of chances to adapt to whatever his opponent comes up with.

How long can he fight? I know Heavy can fight for like several minutes before damage becomes "lethal" but Black Star's page mentions him fighting "for a lengthy period of time while taking grevious injuries" and also that "his stamina is drained more quickly while using Tsubaki's shadow forms".

I don't think that was ever shown for him so... no. Though its worth mentioning that RED stays out of range while BLU is fighting and taking most of the attention. With his reactions, it would be quite impossible to catch him before he teleports away so he might stay in the fight for a while.

But his reactions/combat are possibly Sub-Rela+ while Black Star is Relativisic. Even equalizing them, Heavy wouldn’t have that advantage since he’s already slower to begin with.

I’m not sure exactly how long some of the big fights take, but the entire final arc is a war in which Black Star takes on multiple enemies including Crona and Asura with that fight taking a good while all with Black Star having his bones damaged. Several minutes definitely should be doable. Not to mention Heavy will likely be exhausted by essentially dying every time he’s touched.

Since BLU is easy to deal with, Red shouldn’t take too long to be beaten. BLU’s instant regen will be an issue, but Black Star at any point could fly over and focus on Red. Even with teleportation, he’ll be caught eventually given Severed Shadow, flight, and Black Stars ranged options like Leaf of the Moonlit Night and Chain of Blackness.

 

[Diamond_Drone]

But his reactions/combat are possibly Sub-Rela+ while Black Star is Relativisic. Even equalizing them, Heavy wouldn’t have that advantage since he’s already slower to begin with.

Wait why did I put the Sub-Rela as "Combat speed"? Didn't I say in the blog:

Nothing suggests that this scales to his normal speed, given how much focus is put on Soldier's Hypersonic feat, though this may scale to Reactions.

Ummm, disregarding that, they should still have such advantage given one of the numbers comes from the difference from his combat speed and reactions in the first key (914 / 36.38 = 25x) and they should likely have the same speed gap in the key used currently.

 

[MintyBoi1]

Ummm, disregarding that, they should still have such advantage given one of the numbers comes from the difference from his combat speed and reactions in the first key (914 / 36.38 = 25x) and they should likely have the same speed gap in the key used currently.

So you’re saying Heavy’s reactions are faster than Black Star’s combat. Even with that, he’s lacking offensive options or skill to compete. So he may end up getting caught off guard by Severed Shadow or end up fatiguing first since Black Star should be able to fight for around a few hours going off how many chapters the War on the Moon is and how much stuff happened. He arrives, fights the clown army, then has prolonged encounters with Crona and Asura.

 

[MintyBoi1]

Are there any more BLU Heavy arguments?

 

[Javenplayz253]

If there are no more objections I'll vote ☆ fra

 

[Rayfire]

Minty's pfp FRA unless there's more BLU arguments obviously

 

[CanineAnnoyer]

black star FRA, I guess

 

[Froggytron]

Pfp of Minty FRA unless new arguments are made

 

[Diamond_Drone]

There really isn't a way for the Heavies to beat him unless they get like really really lucky, and even then it still seems heavily in Black Star's favor so vote for him I guess.

 

[MintyBoi1]

It seems like there’s not much a win con for the Heavies here. They’re far weaker and less skilled, only having speed and regen to rely on. I’d say not to add this.

 

[Yoriichi999]

Black Star wins.

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Yep, this one’s done, black star advances round 3 will be up soon!

 

[Froggytron]

Yep, this one’s done, black star advances round 3 will be up soon!

I like the strategy of 2 matches running in a row. It's a balance of no rushing and keeping things going