questions about the naruto vs ichigo battle that just went down

[Kidkinsey]

IM NOT HERE TO DISCUSS THE WINNER only 3 of the arguments i saw for ichigo

1. why is shunpo relevant its basically the naruto equivlent to body flicker which is common for all shinobi to have

2. why does ichigo being able to sense energy matter? people who can see chakra perfectly still can distungish between him and his real clones, its possible to use diversions and get the upper hand on somebody regardless on if they can sense energy or not

3. naruto dosent need his extrasensory preception to see/sense ichigo, that was for limbo clones which exist on a parrallel universe that overlaps ours shinigami are just invisible to those who arent spirutually aware, even if u say chakra isnt part spirutal every shinobi saw the SOULS returning to the afterlife

 

[LordGriffin1000]

I wasn't commenting on the fight but from what I recall.

1. Speed got Equalized so that's a non factor.

2. It wasn't about sensing the real Naruto, it was the fact that since Ichigo can sense them in general none would be able to sneak up on him so he wouldn't get surprised.

3. I'm pretty sure those souls could naturally be seen. Especially since ninja have literal techniques that allow them to become invisible so people can't see them normally. If everyone could naturally see souls that are suppose to be invisible by nature, those techniques would be useless.

 

[Kidkinsey]

Ahhh ok

People who can sense energy still get caught off guard and caught by diversions

And I'm confused by what u mean what techniques are u referring to, and why would they be able to naturally be seen if they are returning to the afterlife

 

[Naeblis495]

1 ) speed was equalized in the middle of the match .

2) Pretty much all of naruto's tricks against pain were tricks that wouldn't had worked if he could sense energy.

smoke bomb, transformed clone in rasenshuriken + clones trying to a back stab strat , will not work. Ichigo would know everything that happen in the smoke bomb and sense all movements of the clones . Sensing energy from all around you , is very different from just seeing energy .

Clones transformed into rocks would also not work.

That combined with the fact that ichigo can fly , just kill all of naruto's tricks with clones .

naruto's clones also don't have souls ,wich means that ichigo could very well able to sense the real naruto ammong his soulless clones .

3) Souls in naruto aren't invisible. i don't think it have been stated and souls are not considered invisible by default .

 

[LordGriffin1000]

@Kidkinsey

If they get caught off guard by an attack even though they can sense it's coming there are 4 reasons. "Plot", "Garbages Senses or don't actually have any" or "Their to slow".

Going to the afterlife means nothing. I'm talking about techniques like Muu's invisibility or that Rock Ninja that fought Obito. They have techniques that make them invisible so people can't see them but if ninja could naturally see invisible beings, those techniques would be useless. Also if this was the case, everytime someone died in front of someone the others would see their soul pass on to the afterlife but this isn't the case.

 

[Naeblis495]

Now that i think about it , everytime a soul have been seen in naruto , it was influenced by a technique.

Did we saw a single natural soul , like from a freshly dead shinobi that died from a random kunai ?

If not , then the only conclusion i can make is that jutsus that manipulate souls in any way make them visible to others .

 

[Kidkinsey]

Well because the souls dont just instantly leave the body and float up like a death in Mario they just appear in the afterlife, and muu and the rock guys technique is different then this, shinigami dont make themselves invisible iirc they are only that way to those who dont have powers

Sensing doesn't=unable to trick or fool, if that were the sensory ninja dbz bleach characters etc would never get caught lacking

 

[Naeblis495]

That doesn't change the fact that souls in naruto were not stated to be invisible. And he doesn't have spiritual awereness on his profile , nor does he have a feat of fighting invisible ennemies or souls in the key that was used .


If naruto could hide his energy , i would agree , he could trick ichigo with some clones . But i don't recall that being a thing . Even sensory types in naruto seems to have trouble sensing stuff and fighting at the same time. Naruto get better at it in later keys , but not in his pain sage mode key.

So the best the clones can do , is trying to overwhelm ichigo with numbers ; Trickery will be very hard to pull off and would just waste naruto's already low time limit in sage mode .

 

[Jo-Smooth]

Shinigami use Shunpo as apart of their basic martial arts and fighting style. For ninja, very few of them use the body flicker effectively in combat. And even when they do they use it far less than Shinigami use Shunpo on average

Specifically for Ichigo and Naruto, Ichigo uses Shunpo more than Naruto does Body Flicker

 

[Kidkinsey]

It's not about hiding his energy it's that being able to sense energy dosent mean u can't be tricked or caught off guard, look at the momoshiki fight he was able to sense chakra yet naruto sasuke and boruto were able to get him with tricks,

As for the seeing souls thing that usually leads to giant threads so I guess we can stop that, I will say that SM jiraya was able to sense the invisible summoning pain used so naruto should be able to do the same

Also his SM time limit us only low if he uses 2 RS iirc otherwise then that it isnt limited to like 5 minutes

 

[Kidkinsey]

Ichigo does use shunpo more then naruto body flickers tho I'll say that

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Ichigo sucks at sensing...Mostly this version, Ichigo only seems to have better sensing later on in the series

 

[Kidkinsey]

have there been any sneak attacks or tricks in bleach? i can only think of a few i know db has some despite them being able to sense energy

 

[Naeblis495]

Ichigo sucks at sensing...Mostly this version, Ichigo only seems to have better sensing later on in the series

No he doesn't ?

Kenpatchi suck at sensing , ichigo is just fine and never struggled to sense his ennemies or friends