Question on high godly regeneration

[NHTkenshin2]

High-Godly: The ability to regenerate after the erasure of body, mind, and soul, along with at least one even more fundamental aspect of a character's existence, such as their place in the narrattive

How is regenerating from a retcon equal to conceptual destruction or past, present and future erasure?
Isn't a plot the absolute form of existence? like, the character of “you” and so on?

I heard there was a True-Godly regeneration before, it should be re-added to for this level of regeneration imo

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

There are different degrees of High-Godly, some more impressive than others. Adding True Godly just so narrative erasure can be above everything else when in the end its depending on how its represented in the setting is just extra.

 

[NHTkenshin2]

There are different degrees of High-Godly, some more impressive than others. Adding True Godly just so narrative erasure can be above everything else when in the end its depending on how its represented in the setting is just extra.

I dont think so
I dont really understand why a plot should be equal or inferior to concepts inside a verse, as that concepts are more abstractions where a plot is the more of the most fundamental level of existence for everything including concepts
As that it logically views everything as fictional

Definitely not just a higher level of HGR imo

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

I dont think so
I dont really understand why a plot should be equal or inferior to concepts inside a verse, as that concepts are more abstractions where a plot is the more of the most fundamental level of existence for everything including concepts
As that it logically views everything as fictional

Definitely not just a higher level of HGR imo

There are plenty of verses that have conceptual erasure above narrative erasure Instant Death for example. Like I said it all depends on how it's presented in the verse. In LDG Gods turn Universes into Narratives for them to play with as they please and erase beings via sed narrative, but never are they presented to be above gods who don't do so and erase beings normally. Assuming all Narrative Erasure is above any other kind of erasure is NLF and at most would just be a higher degree.

 

[NHTkenshin2]

There are plenty of verses that have conceptual erasure above narrative erasure Instant Death for example. Like I said it all depends on how it's presented in the verse. In LDG Gods turn Universes into Narratives for them to play with as they please and erase beings via sed narrative, but never are they presented to be above gods who don't do so and erase beings normally.

Yes, i am sure they do
I am just saying normally concepts inside a fictional universe shouldn't be above the plot itself.

Verses that have “R/F < concepts” should get true godly regen

Assuming all Narrative Erasure is above any other kind of erasure is NLF and at most would just be a higher degree.

I dont really understand why regenerating from a retcon should be just a higher level of HGR, as in normally, Sorry for repeating myself but, in actual reality if you have a universe with concepts, logic and so on, And you have a plot, that views the universe and all of its concepts as just fiction
Then regenerating from a retcon would be immeasurably higher then regenerating from conceptual destruction and they shouldn't be put in the same tier
Same with soul destruction and conceptual destruction.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying your example is subjective and based on if the verse treats it as such. Creating a whole new type of regen based on whether a few verses put Narratives above all other concepts is just too specific. And what you are describing is just having some sort of Plot/Higher System viewing things like concepts via an R>F diffrence, which is just a higher dimension, not something specific to narratives.

 

[NHTkenshin2]

Bump

 

[NHTkenshin2]

Bump

 

[Accelerate420]

It's like @ActuallySpaceMan was saying, it's verse specific. Personally I also believe there needs to be another tier for Regen like we used to have since there's so many verses with unequal high-godly regen that it makes it hard to factor it into a fight. You could have one verse with High-Godly regen negation but the High-Godly regen of that verse could be inferior to the regen of the other verse they're trying to affect, and so it'd end up being useless. It's a bottleneck really but as for /how/ we'd treat another higher-tier regen I'm not too sure either how we'd differentiate it without some brainstorming.

 

[NHTkenshin2]

Again, logically, everything and concept can be verse specific
But viewing a universe as fictional is from what i understand viewing all its content as fiction
This SHOULD include its lower narrative ideas
Thus i believe r>f >>> concepts. this logic should be looked at as the norm unless a verse disagrees with it

Even then, i still think concepts that exist above even the plot of a universe would be true godly

 

[Accelerate420]

That's bit semantical if we make the exception 'unless a verse disagrees with it', there can be r>f layers that are themselves still bound by concepts or below certain ones. Like there does exist some fictions that see's reality itself as fiction but said characters are themselves not beyond concepts like death for example. It's verse specific and I don't think having plot as a benchmarker for a higher regen tier is a good idea.

I agree that there should be a higher tier and that reviving from plot erasure is more impressive than something conceptual depending on the context but it wouldn't insist itself to be a higher tier since High-Godly already covers waaaay too many basis's as it is. We do need a higher tier though because while High-Godly simplifies fights it also makes fights harder to argue when you actually get into the technical differences of characters regeneration specifics which could be fixed by bringing back True-Godly.

Also to add to this, viewing a universe as fictional isn't always a literal interpretation of it. For Umineko it's literal, but for other fictions it might just be a point of view for prose..

 

[NHTkenshin2]

Well, i still think plots > concepts
But i do agree that true godly should still be added for things far higher then high godly

 

[Marius_the_grey]

Well, i still think plots > concepts
But i do agree that true godly should still be added for things far higher then high godly

it would not make a difference, since the highest of high godly regeneration can save you even form the strongest plot based abilities if it's strong enough, cause High Godly Regeneration is towards regeneration what Tier 0 is to tiering system so bringing back true godly would be akin to bringing back the -1 tier which used to be here back in the early days of vs battle wiki when you had the Chuck Norris and Bruce lee here.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

not really. the plot can also be just a concept within the verse.
there are also things like Mandates which no matter how the plot goes cannot be changed or will not be affected.

one thing I can think of is something like this. Even with the ability to affect the fourth wall or change the plot they cannot do something about Mandates of Character Style/Story Immersion etc.

And yeah he managed to return but he still can't break mandates.

anyway. If True Godly is to be added I would prefer it to be a state where he meets all the criteria and not just one of High-Godly. Since High-godly via regenerating from Information type 2 erasure cannot be assumed to be able to regenerate from Removal of history past present future or plot hax.

 

[Marius_the_grey]

@TheGreatJedi13 High Godly can actualy help you regenerate even from Removal of history past present future or plot hax the only way to beat this regeneration is to to have a stronger negation than the level of high-godly regeneration, there are levels within levels of High-Godly regeneration.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

@TheGreatJedi13 High Godly can actualy help you regenerate even from Removal of history past present future or plot hax the only way to beat this regeneration is to to have a stronger negation than the level of high-godly regeneration, there are levels within levels of High-Godly regeneration.

false.
Knowledgable people commented that someone who has feat of regenerating from plot erasure doesn't mean they can regenerate from having erased from past present and future or Information Type 2 or conceptual erasure. thus can still be put down

 

[Marius_the_grey]

false.
Knowledgable people commented that someone who has feat of regenerating from plot erasure doesn't mean they can regenerate from having erased from past present and future or Information Type 2 or conceptual erasure. thus can still be put down

not false but misinterpreted, High Godly regeneration is The ability to regenerate after the erasure of body, mind, and soul, along with at least one even more fundamental aspect of a character's existence, such as their place in the narrative, their entire history, or the underlying information (Type 2) or concept(s) (Type 1 or 2, but only very rarely 3, if there is strong evidence of being similar to the former types in terms of how hard it is to regenerate from them) needed for them to exist.

remember in general people with high-godly regeneration do not not equal levels of regeneration and the strength of high godly regeneration is determined by feats which is something that knowledgeable members already confirm it and how strong high-godly regeneration is the answer is that is also kinda verse-specific since different verses portray things differently.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

remember in general people with high-godly regeneration do not not equal levels of regeneration and the strength of high godly regeneration is determined by feats which is something that knowledgeable members already confirm it and how strong high-godly regeneration is the answer is that is also kinda verse-specific since different verses portray things differently.

that's what I said?

 

[Marius_the_grey]

that's what I said?

what i said means that adding a True-Godly regeneration is even more uneeded.