Question about Narutoverse's tier

[Ryop]

Isnt the fact that Kaguya cant release from the moon chibaku tensei or destroy it show that no character has above moon level Attack Potency?(except Kaguya only with her final attack but she cant use that in battle so that not matter)

in addition Naruto\Sakaue\Hagoromo cant use chibaku tensei alone(this technique demand 2 pepole) so there is no reason to put them moon-planet level in Attack Potency,by feats they look like only continent -country level with with multi-continent in "the last" due to the moon's cut so why there are so high in thier profiles?

 

[Gemmysaur]

Re: Kaguya

She has enough firepower to keep down both Naruto and Sasuke who are Moon+ by their lonesome so she's justifiably where she is.

Re: Naruto/Sasuke

Naruto and Sasuke together pumped enough power to create that Chibaku Tensei, and the resulting AP from it is divided by two which is what they have now that puts them at Moon+. The reason they get the scaling is that they have enough chakra to put out that much power in one attack, then they can realistically put that much chakra as well in another. On another note, unlike Nagato's Chibaku Tensei who got much of his energy drained in the process, the duo can seemingly pump it out many, many times without risk of chakra exhaustion for quite a while. Hence, why Nagato's AP with Chibaku Tensei is different with his regular AP.

Also, Naruto was only using KCM with Kurama out to play in The Last and the result is currently Multi-continent (the calc would probably revised so the result might change) which kinda supports his Six Paths Bijuu mode being Moon+ as it is very much superior to KCM.

We measure Attack Potency so even if the attack looked wall level but it pierced someone who tanked a moonbuster, then the person whose attack looked wall level would still be a moonbuster. Potency is very different from Area of Effect.

Same with Hagoromo.

 

[Ryop]

I still dont understand why they are moon level,they have only technique(that they cant use alone) which create the moon that all,all their others attacks are weaker than this

 

[Gemmysaur]

They used chakra to power that technique, and they used enough of it to make that Chibaku Tensei. If they ever wanted to, they can use that same amount of chakra to power something else.

Think of them as a gun that can fire different types of bullets. Half of Chibaku Tensei is one bullet, Rasenshuriken is another. Even if Naruto swaps bullets, it won't change the fact that the gun used to fire the bullet has that much power. What would change is the application of that power (e.g. piercing round, shrapnel bullet, drill-tip or whatever that bullet that opens inside the target that makes it like a hook that's hard to pull out).

 

[Ryop]

This is only hypothesis they never claim or show something else that strong as their moon's Chibaku Tensei this like say Nagato can use others attacks that as strong as his Chibaku Tensei by perform something else,this is Chakra here not Ki.

even if that true only their combined chakra has enough power to create moon so there no reason to think that also alone they can do something this powerful.In additon that still not make them moom level becuase Kaguya was unable to destroy the Chibaku Tensei so there no way that Naruto\Saske can create another moon level's attack becuase that mean they have Attack Potency and Durability higher than Kaguya

 

[Dzhindzholia]

Chibaku Tensei is a sealing technique,thats why she cant do anything,it doesnt just put you inside moon sized object,it drains all your power.As you could see they released taild beasts out of her when used CT.

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

I agree with this and it is going to get included on my Naruto revision project.

Just because it uses chakra it doesn't mean that other attacks have the same potency, just look at Nagato.Chibaku tensei is by far his most powerful jutsu.

 

[Jonathanlighter]

even after dividing by two, the calc still puts naruto and sasuke at moon level+. quit the downplaying, seriously. and chibaku tensei is a sealing technique. the seal that naruto and sasuke used on kaguya is a technique made specially to seal her. it isnt just trapping her in a bunch of rubble, its a seal with special properties that makes it impossible for her to escape.

 

[Piercer_of_Heaven]

I completely agree with Gwynbleiddd. Chibaku Tensei clearly isn't your average jutsu and if you could just put as much Chakra as you want into any jutsu, there would be no need to use any supposedly stronger ones.

 

[Gemmysaur]

Re: Chakra

The difference between Naruto and Sasuke, and Nagato is that while the duo was able to pump up chakra to perform Six Paths Chibaku Tensei, they were still ready to fight afterwards, and that Naruto has been fighting for quite a while beforehand, with his chakra (Kurama's technically, but since he got the massive Six Paths boost... Kurama's chakra is the lesser one) being split between clones and the entire shinobi alliance.

Nagato on the other hand, tired himself out with one use and so was relegated to much weaker Shinra Tensei than what he could potentially use when fresh. That and his chakra was being sent over a large distance, and being spread over to six bodies that he has to each control.

Bottomline being, Naruto and Sasuke can pump up that much chakra (that was enough to pull a large expanse of land into a ball and throw it into orbit) to perform whatever jutsu they wish (jutsus get stronger with more chakra applied) and be able to do it a lot. Nagato tires himself out, showing that he's nearing limit with that.

Re: Kaguya

Kaguya is very much stronger than them both and the reason she can't get out of Chibaku Tensei is not due to AP, but haxx.

Think of it this way. You can punch through a standard wooden casket (though with difficulty and likely injury, but whatever), and push it open from the inside easily. That's your AP. If I shoot you with a horse tranquilizer (Provided the tranquilizer does not wear off, indefinitely) and shove you in said casket for eternity, would you be able to still open it and get out? No. You won't.

Here's a quote on what a horse tranquilizer does:

In that time they cannot speak nor move, their nervous system rendered impotent by the anaesthetic, their brain temporarily turned to a useless mush.

 

[Omimi]

even without this they r likely Low 5-B

cause

sasuke

likely Small Planet level after receiving additional power-ups with Bijuu Susanoo

naruto

likely Small Planet level (After receiving additional power-ups. Equal to Sasuke's power when he absorbed all nine biju's power)

 

[Ryop]

Wait but if that moon Chibaku Tensei is only sealing justu so isnt that just mean that this technique has notinng to do about chakra level? all naruto and saksue do is just active the seal(for exmple Hagoromo and his brother do that in the first time and the second time is was Naruto and Saske which only together they equal to hogmaro in power and in the first time Hagoromo has his borther which should be close to him in power i guess or at least give him "boosr chakera" to the Chibaku Tensei,yet those both Chibaku Tensei of naruto and Hagoromo are the same)

 

[Omimi]

Wait but if that moon Chibaku Tensei is only sealing justu so isnt that just mean that this technique has notinng to do about chakra's capacity?

how they r going to use a sealing justu without chakra

 

[Ryop]

Wait but if that moon Chibaku Tensei is only sealing justu so isnt that just mean that this technique has notinng to do about chakra's capacity?

how they r going to use a sealing justu without chakra

you need to use chakra to active seal? i dont remmber well, isnt in the war for exmple the shinobis only just put palimpsest seals on the edo tensei's body and this work automatic? another exmple is that jiraiya seal the amaterasu i dont remmber he use chakra in order to do that

 

[Gemmysaur]

Seals need chakra, as different as they might be, they're still jutsus.

 

[DarthUchiha91]

Just want to point out chakra(potency as well as sage chakra) is the factor here. Nagato, in his weakened state couldn't keep naruto in his 8 tails form ensnared. He also planned to make it bigger, that is, until naruto reverted back to his original self. Naruto noted when he fought nagato as the undead, his chibaku tensei this time around was stronger than the first, likely due to exausting of chakra no longer being a factor. Sasuke on the other hand trapped all the tailed beasts with chibaku with hardly any effort, that's after fighting Juudara and kaguya. We also know that Deva paths almighty push techniques also scale, since nagato went from merely deflecting or pushing ninja tools to destroying the whole leaf vilage with the same technique.

Also unlike nagato's chibaku tensei, it's enhanced by six paths chakra. It's not a stretch to say that's the reason the jutsu naruto/sasuke did had an extra hax ability to rid the target of their chakra, when one of naruto's rasenshurken had sealing jutsu properies just because he used the chakra of the one tailed beast to make it.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Nagato's strongest technique is Chibaku Tensei, and that's probably the same for Hagoromo since he doesn't know ninjutsu. But that doesn't apply to Sasuke. Indra's Arrow was his strongest jutsu, so if he gets Moon+ to Small Planet with Chibaku Tensei, Indra's Arrow should be at that level too. If Chibaku Tensei was his strongest jutsu, he would have used that instead on Naruto and create a moon like Hagoromo did to kill him, since that's what he was trying to do. Him using Indra's Arrow instead implies that it's stronger than Chibaku Tensei (I think this was stated somewhere?).

I think what Gemmy said also makes sense.

 

[Ryop]

^he cant use the moon's Chibaku Tensei on naruto becuae in order to do that he need naruto too that what i seaying from the begining

the moon's Chibaku Tensei and saske Vhibaku Tensei are complete different

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Didn't Hagoromo create one without Hamura? The one he used to seal the Juubi's core or something. Whatever the Demonic Statue of the Outer Path is. If I'm correct, Hagoromo didn't need Hamura the second time. Besides, why does it really matter?

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

The Chibaku Tensei removed Kaguya's chakra and separated it into the Tailed beasts. She is completely powerless to escape.

Also, Hagoromo creating the moon was retconned. It's assumed he can do so now because Naruto and Sasuke were able to do so with half his power.

They just opened the moon to seal the body in the most recent incarnation, The Last.

 

[Ryop]

i am pertty sure that Hagoromo create the moon together with his brother not alone

 

[Gemmysaur]

Hagoromo also provided a power boost strong enough to make Naruto and Sasuke jump thousandfold power-wise, and gave the two half-seals needed to make Six Paths Chibaku Tensei.

Perhaps it was because they (Hagoromo and Hamura) were fighting beforehand that they were not able to do it in their lonesome, but it's clear that Hagoromo by himself is strong enough to power that seal.

 

[BarryAllen2.0]

Are we seriously gonna do the chakra control debate again? Yes, CT scales to their AP through chakra control.

http://www.oocities.org/go_fightingdreamers/chakra.html

As for hags, he's scales from SPCT souly based on giving Naruto and Sasuke each half, and if you want to get technical, any CT scaling is an "At least" fot the top tiers going by how chakra control is explained..

 

[Omimi]

In chapter 670, Hagoromo stated "we fought against the physical incarnation of the sacred tree, the Ten-Tails" which was Kaguya, "...and sealed it inside me. Just like Hagoromo said, what happened was they fought the Ten-Tails and then sealed it within Hagoromo.

the Ten-Tails was initially sealed inside of Hagoromo. It was later during the waning days of the Sages life when he realized that when he going die the Ten-Tails would be unsealed and will create the same destruction as before. Ten-Tails chakra was removed and split into the current 9 Tailed Beasts. Its body was also sealed into the Chibaku Tensei afterwards

dont forget that Hagoromo was Juubi jinjuriki and he is the 1 who created all 9 bijju after splitting juubi chakra by using yin-yang release

anyway it doesn't matter anymore cause weakened Hagoromo was able to gave sasuke and naruto power = to create the moon

 

[Aizenishere]

I agree with this and it is going to get included on my Naruto revision project.
Just because it uses chakra it doesn't mean that other attacks have the same potency, just look at Nagato.Chibaku tensei is by far his most powerful jutsu.

If I may ask mate, Do you have a rough Idea of where the revision is going to put the God tiers of Naruto's AP/Dura at?