Question about michael and lucifer

[Jonathanlighter]

how are michael and lucifer 1-A if they have such HUGE restrictions. for example, lucifer cant create matter out of nothing? what?? how can a 1-A character not doing something that even 3D characters can do? and michael cant shape matter without lucifer or something? otherwise he can only create raw destruction. these seem like HUGE limitations, especially on 1-A characters. im not trying to downgrade them or anything as they are clearly beyond dimensional, im just wondering how 1-A characters cant do something even regular 3-D characters like franklin richards can do.

 

[Reppuzan]

It's best that you discuss this with Matthew Schroeder and other comic buffs, but at the same time his other feats override all assertions to the contrary (i.e. being beyond time, space, dimensions, and infinity) and his nature as a being comparable to Michael, who is second only to to The Presence.

 

[Jonathanlighter]

yeah i get that, but on the pages, it clearly says they have those limitations.

 

[Antvasima]

These are standard massive western comicbook inconsistencies. They happen quite frequently.

 

[TheSandman31]

.Lucifer can't create out of nothing(The Void) but he can manipulate anything,even abstract concepts and expand them infinitely.Michael can't shape his Demiurgic power,but he have enough control over it that he was repairing Creation moment by moment, not only recreating matter but also concepts like time,space,distance,emotion etc.The limitations doesn't make them weaker than character who can create matter, Lucifer killed the Logos,The Voice of God that created the multiverse, just by touching it.Michael's demiurgic power is the building blocks for everything even dimensions,space,time etc.

It's because the Presence created them with those limitations,since the three of them (Michael,Lucifer and Gabriel) are meant to work with each other.They're limitations is because of their roles in making Creation.

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

I which comics does Lucifer kill Logos?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

None. Lucifer is a DC character and Logos is a Marvel character.

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

That's weird it is even written on Lucifer's profile.

I think by Logos whoever wrotte it may mean the Word, since they are somewhat of a synonym.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Ah. That clears things up.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

... Jesus guys. Logos is the Word of God, this is basic DC cosmology stuff.

Edit: Okay, not basic, but not uncommon.

 

[AndrewBennet]

I don't see a issue here . Even low tier abstracts like Lord of order and chaos created the whole Multiverse from void nothingness and they were terrified of Dreams mere presence in season of mists storyline . Lucifer and Michael together shaped the whole DC Multiverse from void nothingness and even creating concepts like Time , Night who predates all versions of creations and are what something that allows the creation to exist . So they also gave a platform for other reality warpers who can create and destroy the multiverses .

 

[Jonathanlighter]

still seems like huge limitations and kinda strange for 1-A characters to not be able to do such things

 

[Antvasima]

Again, plot convenience.

 

[Antvasima]

Alternately, their creator, the Presence, simply placed restrictions upon them.

 

[Ryukama]

On one hand a 1-A having such a limitation is pretty ridiculous. On the other a far superior 1-A placing that limitation on a 1-A seems reasonable.

 

[Shining_Trapezohedron]

I have always wonder how Lucifer and Michael can be rated so high with such limitation when I first saw their tier.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

People misunderstand what those limitations mean.

Lucifer can't create something out of nothing, i.e, ignore conservation of energy. If he uses his own energies he can perfectly do them.

Michael is simply not a very good Reality Warper, though as shown when Elaine got her father's powers, he is very much capable of doing Reality Warping and stuff of the like. He can Reality Warp things, he just can't Reality Warp on the infinite scale of his power.

This is meant to illustrate the complementary differences between the brothers. It's a narrative thing, more so than a power-level thing.

Michael is the Embodiment of God's Infinite Power, and thus his light can create anything and also destroy anything. Lucifer is the Embodiment of God's Infinite Will, and thus he can shape everything and do anything, as long as he has the energies to do so. One has Infinite Power but finite applications on such a scale, the other has finite power but infinite applications to his power. When together, the two complement each-other.

Also, both Sandman and Lucifer are deliberatedly vague about the level of power of its characters, and avoid fight scenes at all costs. This is why it's said that Lucifer and Michael created "A Creation", and not a universe, multiverse, omniverse, or any other word you can think of. They created the totality of existence. The scale of that totality is not important.

 

[Shining_Trapezohedron]

People misunderstand what those limitations mean.

Yep, mainly because:

1. They haven't got that far and start making assumption. Depend on the person to be honest.

2. They dont really analyze the character tier and power in the comic and just downgrade them base on what is shown the story as consistent even though comic are known for their inconsistency. Look at Thor and Superman

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

@Matthew When did Lucifer kill Logos?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Gwyn

In Lucifer #53

The Logos exists in a Tower in the Silver City:

One.

Two.

Lucifer kills it:

One.

Two.

 

[AndrewBennet]

Alternately, their creator, the Presence, simply placed restrictions upon them.

I actually found that .

http://i.imgur.com/C16vg5F.png

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

That's not true. Presence >>>>>>> Michael + Lucifer. But yeah, they weren't allowed to use all of their power.