PvZ Speed Upgrade/Downgrade

[Ednaxel2]

GW All Star should not at all be just as his fast as his obviously weaker PvZ2 counterpart, this is implemented within the profiles and has nothing supporting it, yet back scaling is used from GW, to PvZ2, to PvZ1. The gap in power is shown to increase through the games (Fire peas turning Zombies to ash in PvZ2 whereas before that wasn't the case back in PvZ1, Snow Pea freezing zombies to absolute zero in PvZ2 when he couldn't before, the leveling up system introduced in PvZ2 which is talked about in character dialogue and is already accepted on this wiki, and being in the far future where the zombies and plants should've developed which is shown through Peashooters & Sunflowers obtaining limbs and new abilities and the Zombies getting mechanical/technological upgrades and abilities, including All Star himself) therefore PvZ1 characters should not somehow scale to their PvZ2 selves in speed, and PvZ2 characters should not scale to their GW/Heroes selves. However their will be upgrades for PvZ2 and GW/Heroes characters in this thread.

PvZ1 Downgrade due to downscaling not being used​

Melon-pult's melons reach as high as the house in the levels, with Melons having a terminal velocity of 35m/s (Subsonic) from that very height, this will be used for scaling the speed for the PvZ1 plants as their projectiles have shown to be comparable to falling Melon's speed. If not this, then they'd upscale from out-speeding the Dolphin Zombie, with Dolphins having a speed of Athletic Human in short bursts (it's more likely the Dolphin travels in a burst as the almanac says it travels at a fast speed even though Dolphins are normally Below Average Human speed).

PvZ2 Calc Upgrade​

The PvZ2 characters will scale to the following calculation:

Meteor Flower Calculation

vsbattles.fandom.com

(High Hypersonic+) The other plants are shown range from being somewhat comparable, to being massively faster than the speed of Meteor Flower's meteors, so their speed will upscale from this value to.

Garden Warfare/Heroes Lighting Speed Upgrade​

GW/Heroes characters should scale to Massively Hypersonic+ combat speed, due to Heroes characters reacting to projectiles/strikes of lighting based characters, and many GW characters have their own attack speeds being comparable if not outright superior to other playable lighting based characters in the game.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

At first glance everything looks good, I agree

 

[Ednaxel2]

Bump

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

Looks good

 

[Ednaxel2]

Calc mod just accepted it, it can be used

 

[Qawsedf234]

GW/Heroes characters should scale to Massively Hypersonic+ combat speed, due to Heroes characters reacting to projectiles/strikes of lighting based characters, and many GW characters have their own attack speeds being comparable if not outright superior to other playable lighting based characters in the game

I'm not seeing anything provided that would indicate that these are MHS+ showings

 

[Ednaxel2]

I'm not seeing anything provided that would indicate that these are MHS+ showings

The Heroes characters are able to react to any attack in the game including lighting attacks (lightning being MHS+) from characters such as lighting reed. Many GW characters can fight against electric based characters like Power Flower or Electro Brainz, with many being capable of having projectiles much faster than them or at least projectiles comparable in speed

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks alright from a glance.

 

[Qawsedf234]

The Heroes characters are able to react to any attack in the game including lighting attacks

What does the lightning attack look like?

 

[Ednaxel2]

What does the lightning attack look like?

The PvZ2 and PvZ Heroes versions are the exact same too

 

[Qawsedf234]

The PvZ2 and PvZ Heroes versions are the exact same too

That's not enough evidence for a MHS+ rating.

Most electricity in fiction is not real lightning. Often it is supernatural in nature, and is possibly not even electricity. Therefore lightning is only accepted as such under certain circumstances.

• Cloud-to-ground lightning is considered to be real lightning, as long there is nothing suggesting otherwise.
• Lightning that has demonstrated at a minimum a few properties that real lightning has, and significantly less properties that lightning shouldn't have, can be considered real. Some examples of favourable properties are: making muscles of affected beings contract, having an (electro)magnetic field, being shown to actually move with a speed similar to lightning, flowing through conducting materials, the character being able to manipulate real electricity or electromagnetism in general, generating ozone or causing electrolysis.

It doesn't meet point one and nothing given hits anything from point two. I'm not against the other stuff, but MHS+ I don't see evidence for.

 

[Ednaxel2]

That's not enough evidence for a MHS+ rating.

The point was to say PvZ2 and Heroes lighting reed can have statements/showings that can apply to each other

It doesn't meet point one and nothing given hits anything from point two. I'm not against the other stuff, but MHS+ I don't see evidence for.

Wdym point one and two?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Wdym point one and two?

The MHS+ page gives some criteria for lightning to be considered actual lightning. I'm not seeing the criteria fulfilled for the plant.

 

[Ednaxel2]

The MHS+ page gives some criteria for lightning to be considered actual lightning. I'm not seeing the criteria fulfilled for the plant.

Cloud-to-ground lightning is considered to be real lightning, as long there is nothing suggesting otherwise.

The Lightning Reed does summon a cloud of lightning that shoots electricity from it, firing the exact same lightning as his primary attack

 

[Ednaxel2]

Bump

 

[Propellus]

The High Hypersonic stuff checks out, I'm a bit iffy on the lightning scaling considering that cloud was pretty small

 

[Ednaxel2]

Everything else got approved except for the lighting stuff, then I'll just wait for grace to be over

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

I agree with what has been established in this thread. I'll also elaborate on the first sentence of the original post, since I wrote an explanation about it before the thread was started and I don't want what I wrote to go to waste.

Currently, the speed of some characters in Plants vs. Zombies are ranked as hypersonic on the VS Battles Wiki. This is based on Football Zombie instantly catching on fire with a charge attack during Plants vs. Zombies: Garden Warfare. There is the notion that this applies to the other moves of the characters, including Football Zombie in other games, because "his charge shouldn't be too inferior to his Garden Warfare self". I think that the way this was applied was incorrect.

The only reason why Football Zombie is considered as having hypersonic speed during Plants vs. Zombies: Garden Warfare is because of the fact that it's implied due to the presence of fire during his movement, therefore the absence of catching on fire with movement implies that he's not going as fast, since characters who aren't on fire haven't been shown to be capable of keeping up with characters who are on fire. Evidently, the charge attacks of Football Zombies during Plants vs. Zombies 2 lack fire. It's also common knowledge that regular peas can only catch fire when going through a Torchwood, which implies that Peashooters don't independently shoot well enough to have their projectiles catch on fire. Peashooters can still successfully shoot Football Zombies before the latter can finish charging onward, which is more evidence that Football Zombies don't dash at hypersonic speed during the tower defense games.

My argument doesn't use the style over substance fallacy. If the "style" is absolutely the only thing implying the substance, then it's wrong to claim that addressing the "style" can't be done to also address the substance. I'm not addressing something that's only a style anyway though. A character moving so fast that they catch on fire isn't just for show.

 

[Ednaxel2]

I agree with what has been established in this thread. I'll also elaborate on the first sentence of the original post, since I wrote an explanation about it before the thread was started and I don't want what I wrote to go to waste.

Currently, the speed of some characters in Plants vs. Zombies are ranked as hypersonic on the VS Battles Wiki. This is based on Football Zombie instantly catching on fire with a charge attack during Plants vs. Zombies: Garden Warfare. There is the notion that this applies to the other moves of the characters, including Football Zombie in other games, because "his charge shouldn't be too inferior to his Garden Warfare self". I think that the way this was applied was incorrect.

The only reason why Football Zombie is considered as having hypersonic speed during Plants vs. Zombies: Garden Warfare is because of the fact that it's implied due to the presence of fire during his movement, therefore the absence of catching on fire with movement implies that he's not going as fast, since characters who aren't on fire haven't been shown to be capable of keeping up with characters who are on fire. Evidently, the charge attacks of Football Zombies during Plants vs. Zombies 2 lack fire. It's also common knowledge that regular peas can only catch fire when going through a Torchwood, which implies that Peashooters don't independently shoot well enough to have their projectiles catch on fire. Peashooters can still successfully shoot Football Zombies before the latter can finish charging onward, which is more evidence that Football Zombies don't dash at hypersonic speed during the tower defense games.

My argument doesn't use the style over substance fallacy. If the "style" is absolutely the only thing implying the substance, then it's wrong to claim that addressing the "style" can't be done to also address the substance. I'm not addressing something that's only a style anyway though. A character moving so fast that they catch on fire isn't just for show.

This entire elaboration is pretty concrete. I still can't believe this and the Brain Freeze calc was used for such a long time, even tho no calc member accepted it

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

This entire elaboration is pretty concrete. I still can't believe this and the Brain Freeze calc was used for such a long time, even tho no calc member accepted it

Thanks. Now back to waiting until the grace period is finished.

 

[Ednaxel2]

That's it! Grace period is over, I will apply the changes