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Puppet and Fluffy Boy vs B o n e

GodlyCharmander

GodlyCharmander

He/Him
5,744
4,996
Ahem, remaking this match because we can only do 2-on-1s.

Kris and Ralsei have to fight Sans. Susie is busy eating chalk or something, so she is not present.
  • Speed is equalized
  • Chapter 2 Party
  • Sans has knowledge of their skills
  • "Genocide Route" Party
  • Both are in-character, but are trying to stop/kill each other
  • They have access to a SpinCake, 3 ButJuices, 2 ReviveMints, a spaghetti code and a TensionBit.
  • Win by incapacitation, death, or BFR

Bone Man:

Awkward Relationship: 5 (@Imaginym, @1st_Virtue_of_Pure_Void, @JustANormalLemon, @Peppersalt43, @ShockingPsychic)

Inconclusive: 4 (@FarerPurple, @Lord_JJJ, @FinePoint, @pikaman59)
 
Last edited:
Sans probably takes the 1st move, as he normally breaks the turn order by attacking before Chara-Frisk takes their turn.

Deltarune & Undertale mostly use the same system of dodging, meaning it comes down to skill. But we don't know if whoever's piloting the Deltarune SOUL is the same person as someone who can beat Sans, do we?
Do we have any OTHER way to judge how skilled the SOUL should be?

Either way, this is a pretty important question; You can't get TP during invulnerability frames, & Sans has long strings of attacks, meaning how often the SOUL can not get hit is relevant for how much TP they get.
But Sans also ignores Invulnerability frames with his attacks. Would that mean acquiring TP is always possible against him, or just no INV if you get hit, & Sans can keep hitting the SOUL?

There's also the question of if Sans's attacks would target all, switch targets mid-attack, or target one. & once it downs someone, does it keep hitting them, or hit someone else?

If Kris goes down first, Ralsei can heal & repeat the process, maybe do a little better.... Or attack & learn Sans dodges pretty good, then likely get annihilated.
If Ralsei goes down first, Kris can use an item to heal & repeat the process, maybe do a little better.... Or attack & learn Sans dodges pretty good, then likely get annihilated.

We also assume Sans has Teleportation, too, don't we? So even in a 2vs1, he might not be hit very easily.
 
Imaginym said:
Deltarune & Undertale mostly use the same system of dodging, meaning it comes down to skill. But we don't know if whoever's piloting the Deltarune SOUL is the same person as someone who can beat Sans, do we?
Do we have any OTHER way to judge how skilled the SOUL should be?
Click to expand...
Assume Kris, as a separate character. Consider all he did on chapter 1 and 2 canon, and apply that to the character's skill and ability.
Imaginym said:
Either way, this is a pretty important question; You can't get TP during invulnerability frames, & Sans has long strings of attacks, meaning how often the SOUL can not get hit is relevant for how much TP they get.
But Sans also ignores Invulnerability frames with his attacks. Would that mean acquiring TP is always possible against him, or just no INV if you get hit, & Sans can keep hitting the SOUL?
Click to expand...
TP is gathered by narrowing dodging attacks. You can get TP every frame if you graze the attacks, but if you're inside it, that's not a thing.
Imaginym said:
There's also the question of if Sans's attacks would target all, switch targets mid-attack, or target one. & once it downs someone, does it keep hitting them, or hit someone else?
Click to expand...
One target, as that's the limitation of Undertale. He can obviously switch as he wants.
Imaginym said:
If Kris goes down first, Ralsei can heal & repeat the process, maybe do a little better.... Or attack & learn Sans dodges pretty good, then likely get annihilated.
If Ralsei goes down first, Kris can use an item to heal & repeat the process, maybe do a little better.... Or attack & learn Sans dodges pretty good, then likely get annihilated.

We also assume Sans has Teleportation, too, don't we? So even in a 2vs1, he might not be hit very easily.
Click to expand...
Remember, unlike Chara and Frisk, Kris only has one chance to beat Sans. And yes, Sans have all his abilities, and can use them the same way he did in Undertale.
 
GodlyCharmander said:
Assume Kris, as a separate character. Consider all he did on chapter 1 and 2 canon, and apply that to the character's skill and ability.
Click to expand...
Does Kris control the SOUL, though?
GodlyCharmander said:
TP is gathered by narrowing dodging attacks. You can get TP every frame if you graze the attacks, but if you're inside it, that's not a thing.
Click to expand...
Isn't there a window where, after being hit, TP can't be acquired, even if you're positioned correctly to Graze?
GodlyCharmander said:
One target, as that's the limitation of Undertale. He can obviously switch as he wants.
Click to expand...
Good to know.
GodlyCharmander said:
Remember, unlike Chara and Frisk, Kris only has one chance to beat Sans. And yes, Sans have all his abilities, and can use them the same way he did in Undertale.
Click to expand...
Only one chance why? I assume you mean if Sans kills him? I mean, death seems to happen for Chara/Frisk when their HP hits 0, but for Kris, it seems they just go DOWN, as opposed to dying.
 
Imaginym said:
Does Kris control the SOUL, though?
Click to expand...
In this scenario, yes. They are not being controlled by the player (as that would give him immeasurable advantage)
Imaginym said:
Isn't there a window where, after being hit, TP can't be acquired, even if you're positioned correctly to Graze?
Click to expand...
Oh yeah, but it's about 3 or 4 frames. Depends on the attack, the duck gives 1 TP per frame
Imaginym said:
Only one chance why? I assume you mean if Sans kills him? I mean, death seems to happen for Chara/Frisk when their HP hits 0, but for Kris, it seems they just go DOWN, as opposed to dying.
Click to expand...
As in, no dying and doing over with time hax.
 
GodlyCharmander said:
As in, no dying and doing over with time hax.
Click to expand...
I see. Though, Kris, when downed, can still be revived via item healing, right?

Anyway, unsure if Kris is used to patterns used in Sans's attacks. Besides platforming, it also features patterns that change in a snap mid-attacking, wave-like patterns of bones with the gaps rapidly changing in elevation.... Probably forgetting others.

undertale.fandom.com

Attack Types

In the battle room, bullets of varying color represent monster attacks. These colors are the attack types. Each attack type corresponds to one of the SOULs of the eight humans, or the SOULs of monsters. Down here, LOVE is shared through...Little white... "friendliness pellets." Flowey at the...
undertale.fandom.com undertale.fandom.com
There's also his Karma. Different attacks place a different amount of KARMA (Up to 10 per frame.), but there can't be more than 40 Karma at once. It also drains slower the less Karma there is. INV-increasing items also make KARMA decrease slower.

Since Sans will attack first, in theory, they'll probably only have 1 party member UP, & they'll likely have to Heal. If they have 2 up, they could pressure him while healing.
In theory, they could wear Sans out with 1 healing & 1 attacking, but since Sans is liable to be hitting them during most of his turns, I don't think they'd get much TP out of his attacks.
With items, though, they don't need TP, & the small amounts across maybe 12 turns where they usually don't die & might adjust to the patterns? In that timeframe, they could probably wear him out enough to cast PACIFY & win.
 
Imaginym said:
I see. Though, Kris, when downed, can still be revived via item healing, right?
Click to expand...
Yes.
Imaginym said:
Anyway, unsure if Kris is used to patterns used in Sans's attacks. Besides platforming, it also features patterns that change in a snap mid-attacking, wave-like patterns of bones with the gaps rapidly changing in elevation.... Probably forgetting others.

undertale.fandom.com

Attack Types

In the battle room, bullets of varying color represent monster attacks. These colors are the attack types. Each attack type corresponds to one of the SOULs of the eight humans, or the SOULs of monsters. Down here, LOVE is shared through...Little white... "friendliness pellets." Flowey at the...
undertale.fandom.com undertale.fandom.com
There's also his Karma. Different attacks place a different amount of KARMA (Up to 10 per frame.), but there can't be more than 40 Karma at once. It also drains slower the less Karma there is. INV-increasing items also make KARMA decrease slower.

Since Sans will attack first, in theory, they'll probably only have 1 party member UP, & they'll likely have to Heal. If they have 2 up, they could pressure him while healing.
In theory, they could wear Sans out with 1 healing & 1 attacking, but since Sans is liable to be hitting them during most of his turns, I don't think they'd get much TP out of his attacks.
With items, though, they don't need TP, & the small amounts across maybe 12 turns where they usually don't die & might adjust to the patterns? In that timeframe, they could probably wear him out enough to cast PACIFY & win.
Click to expand...
Sans lasts 22 turns. It can be reduced to 11 if both attack every turn, but that's not happening. Kris can start ACTing once they realize Attacking is useless, inducing Sans to sleep with Pirouette.
So, you vote for the Ultimate Academic Duo? (Kris and Ralsei)
 
GodlyCharmander said:
It can be reduced to 11 if both attack every turn, but that's not happening. Kris can start ACTing once they realize Attacking is useless, inducing Sans to sleep with Pirouette.
Click to expand...
Dunno if Kris would Pirouette against Sans, since Pirouette is against Jevil, a clown-like enemy, in a spinning room. Sans is a comedian, but not really a clown.
GodlyCharmander said:
So, you vote for the Ultimate Academic Duo? (Kris and Ralsei)
Click to expand...
I guess I am, for now.

I don't know how Sans behaves against multiple opponents. For all I know, if his TK can move the body as well, he might try to separate them, or put distance between him & them via Telekinetically throwing Kris/Ralsei so that they can't easily help each other/attack him.
 
Imaginym said:
Dunno if Kris would Pirouette against Sans, since Pirouette is against Jevil, a clown-like enemy, in a spinning room. Sans is a comedian, but not really a clown.
Click to expand...
It's in their abilities, so they can use it by the wiki's standards.
Imaginym said:
I guess I am, for now.

I don't know how Sans behaves against multiple opponents. For all I know, if his TK can move the body as well, he might try to separate them, or put distance between him & them via Telekinetically throwing Kris/Ralsei so that they can't easily help each other/attack him.
Click to expand...
Counted
 
Imaginym said:
Can, but will their characterization make them likely to do so?
It's not a deciding factor, but still.
Click to expand...
Kris does not have "characterization" outside of the end of the chapter, so this isn't really fair.

We can assume that, once they realize sleep is a valid tatic, they will use a similar ACT. They have information analysis after all, no?
 
GodlyCharmander said:
Kris does not have "characterization" outside of the end of the chapter, so this isn't really fair.
Click to expand...
I mean, haven't we seen them wanting to scream after post-Spamton Neo? Though, they don't take this action during a Weird/SnowGrave route, but I suppose I get your point about us not knowing their combat behaviour well.
I think the most we know IC is they went to guard Susie in a cutscene after King.
GodlyCharmander said:
Kris does not have "characterization" outside of the end of the chapter, so this isn't really fair.

We can assume that, once they realize sleep is a valid tatic, they will use a similar ACT. They have information analysis after all, no?
Click to expand...
Could be, but they don't bring up Pirouette as an ACT even against other Chapter 2 enemies that seem prone to Sleep.
 
Imaginym said:
I mean, haven't we seen them wanting to scream after post-Spamton Neo? Though, they don't take this action during a Weird/SnowGrave route, but I suppose I get your point about us not knowing their combat behaviour well.
I think the most we know IC is they went to guard Susie in a cutscene after King.
Click to expand...
Yes. We have little characterization in terms of battle strategy, but we will assume they are smart enough to do things they already did during the chapters.
Imaginym said:
Could be, but they don't bring up Pirouette as an ACT even against other Chapter 2 enemies that seem prone to Sleep.
Click to expand...
they either uses Lullaby with Ralsei, or an act that can put them to sleep like "good night", or something. All I mean is, it's a reliable tatic, you know?
 
Neither Kris or Ralsei are very familiar with sans' platformer fight style, and with the fact that sans has knowledge, im gonna say incon

Sans can finally use his great 'lock people forever move' in this fight, since he knows that Ralsei and Kris are a great duo at putting people to sleep, i think he'd crank that move out far sooner than he usually does, and not let either escape their damned prison with the bone.

I'm saying inconclusive.
 
FarerPurple said:
Neither Kris or Ralsei are very familiar with sans' platformer fight style, and with the fact that sans has knowledge, im gonna say incon

Sans can finally use his great 'lock people forever move' in this fight, since he knows that Ralsei and Kris are a great duo at putting people to sleep, i think he'd crank that move out far sooner than he usually does, and not let either escape their damned prison with the bone.

I'm saying inconclusive.
Click to expand...
Counted.
 
Sans would even think about dodging their long range mele atacks? like, they don't need to aproch to hit sans and I don't think sans would even notice he needs do dodge it
 
JustANormalLemon said:
his info analyses isn't only beacuse he can count how many times frisky died? how that help know that they can damage someone with a mele hit wilhe tons of meters away?
Click to expand...
My guy, if he can read someone's DEATH COUNT just by looking at their expression, and is a genius, he should be able to know when they attack and dodge it. Plus, he KNOWS they're capable of attacking from meters away, this is a non-factor.
 
GodlyCharmander said:
My guy, if he can read someone's DEATH COUNT just by looking at their expression, and is a genius, he should be able to know when they attack and dodge it. Plus, he KNOWS they're capable of attacking from meters away, this is a non-factor.
Click to expand...
Oh, Sorry, didn't notice that he had prior knoldge, well, sinse Rasel is their what stop them from puting sans tô sleep with a sleeping spell, considering how low is sans stamina and fall a sleep duing battle this should be a easy Win con
 
JustANormalLemon said:
Oh, Sorry, didn't notice that he had prior knoldge, well, sinse Rasel is their what stop them from puting sans tô sleep with a sleeping spell, considering how low is sans stamina and fall a sleep duing battle this should be a easy Win con
Click to expand...
They'd have to do so after tiring him up a lot before doing so. If you believe they are able to do that, you can vote for them if you give a reason or agree with the reasoning above.
 
GodlyCharmander said:
They'd have to do so after tiring him up a lot before doing so. If you believe they are able to do that, you can vote for them if you give a reason or agree with the reasoning above.
Click to expand...
It's easy to tier sans, and if we look to the usage of the sleepin speel and lulubaby by Rasel they shouldn't have problens to make sans sleep and is in character to doing It, I,m voting to the 2/3 of the fun gang
 
I'm voting incon.

I don't think they have any answer to Sans's special attack.
You also have to consider that Sans was still able to dodge after 22 turns in Undertale even while asleep, but Chara broke the game rules to attack twice at once.

I think the delta squad will get very close to winning, then fall victim to Sans's infinite turn.
 
FinePoint said:
I'm voting incon.

I don't think they have any answer to Sans's special attack.
You also have to consider that Sans was still able to dodge after 22 turns in Undertale even while asleep, but Chara broke the game rules to attack twice at once.

I think the delta squad will get very close to winning, then fall victim to Sans's infinite turn.
Click to expand...
That's a @FinePoint, counted.
 
Kris and ralsei will either get really close to beating sans and get stuck into his special attack, or their lack of skill with a platformer fighting style will screw him over.
 
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