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PTJ Universe Speed Hypersonic+ speed downgrades to Supersonic.

Antvasima said:
What is the username of your currently used wiki account?

Also, you need to update your username in all of the regular wiki pages (verse pages and the knowledgeable members lists) where it is currently listed.
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COB made a 2nd account after accidentally getting locked out of his first (or something similar), so his forum username is based on the first account I think while his name as a supporter is the 2nd I think (or vice-versa)
 
ElajRuengies said:
COB made a 2nd account after accidentally getting locked out of his first (or something similar), so his forum username is based on the first account I think while his name as a supporter is the 2nd I think (or vice-versa)
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This yes

Antvasima said:
Hmm. We probably have to update his forum username to something almost identical to his wiki username then.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't mind having this account I'm using to talk to everyone rn to be renamed Ciruno Fortes (COB). Once I'm home I'll edit my signature my username for the VS Editing profile
 
Okay, and your current wiki username is Ciruno Fortes then?

And will you update the VSBW verse pages and knowledgeable members list pages where your outdated username is currently listed?
 
Antvasima said:
Okay, and your current wiki username is Ciruno Fortes then?

And will you update the VSBW verse pages and knowledgeable members list pages where your outdated username is currently listed?
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Yes. Every VSBW page has Ciruno Fortes as supporter right now. But whatever my name changes into I'll update that too
 
Ciruno_Fortes_(COB) said:
For the current supersonic feat? I think it's reasonable but I'd like to get a second opinion.
Click to expand...
Gonna be honest, when Eli deflects the kunai (will get image when not on mobile), it's way further away from him than the panel with his eye makes it out to be- so the deflection has a similar problem as some of these shots-
Guutszz said:
I totally agree with this thread. Because, the art made by PTJ is often inconsistent, especially lookism.
An example is this:

In the first panel, it looks like the character successfully attacked, coupled with a white effect. However, in the next panel, it turns out that the attack was parried.

This applies to speed Feats in lookism too, we often see that there are panels where the character avoids another character's attack from a very, very close distance. The attacker is usually assumed to be Subsonic, and after calculating, we usually get Supersonic or even Hypersonic. However, what happens next? The character can actually fight evenly. This is very strange where a character that was originally assumed to be Subsonic can even keep up with a character with Supersonic speed.
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ElajRuengies said:
And their reaction speeds are too high.
I'm not saying that every instance of them using a car is an anti-feat for Supersonic and above speeds, I'm saying they have showings in fights against guns that are anti-feats.

From Ep 114-

And then in Ep 124- take note of how Samdak 1. Keeps the gun pointed away from him the entire fight- which wouldn't make sense if he was High Hypersonic+ given how bullets wouldn't even be relevant at that speed and 2. Is looking at the gun in almost every panel the gun's fired.



Samdak isn't dodging the bullet, he's seeing when Nameless is going to fire the gun and dodging his aim.


It's exactly as you said- Seongjun Baek just shat on the entire Hobin Yu Company and several contract killers-
So in terms of speed tier, he should be miles above beginning of Lookism Fat Daniel- who's currently Transonic / 317 m/s.

When Nameless pulled a gun on him- Seongjun is 192 cm tall so...



There was 192cm / 1331.6 * 170 = ~24.5 centimeters between him and the gun, handguns fire at 750 - 1300 feet per second, or an average 1025 f/s or 312.42 m/s, meaning if the gun was fired, he'd have (0.245 / 312.42) 0.0007842 seconds to dodge.

Even if Seongjun was as slow as Fat Daniel (which would be dumb), he'd still be able to move 0.0007842 * 317 = 24.85914 centimeters to the left or right, which would be more than enough to dodge it. (Ignoring how Daniel's speed of 317 m/s from stopping a knife makes him faster than the handgun's 312.42 m/s, meaning even if Seongjun was as slow as Fat Daniel he'd be able to back away from the bullet faster than it could come to him, and he should be far faster than that)


1. Full scene please- also the dude has bullet wounds, which again would be prosperous for someone who can fight (20500 / 700) = ~29 times faster than an AK-47. (Think the difference in speed between brisk walking- 2 meters per second, and the speed of a sloth ~6.9 centimeters per second, or 4 to 4.5 meters per minute)

2. Dodging handgun fire at that distance is only Subsonic
Click to expand...

You seemed to FULLY have ignored my points so let me restate the important ones relevant to what you responded with

1. That is an elderly samdak stated to be well past his prime
2. Again aim dodging was not stated
3. Seongjun Baek was HEAVILY wounded and tired and + calcing something and getting a low result isn't a downgrade of verse speeds? When has that ever been a thing,
 
ElajRuengies said:
And their reaction speeds are too high.
I'm not saying that every instance of them using a car is an anti-feat for Supersonic and above speeds, I'm saying they have showings in fights against guns that are anti-feats.

From Ep 114-

And then in Ep 124- take note of how Samdak 1. Keeps the gun pointed away from him the entire fight- which wouldn't make sense if he was High Hypersonic+ given how bullets wouldn't even be relevant at that speed and 2. Is looking at the gun in almost every panel the gun's fired.



Samdak isn't dodging the bullet, he's seeing when Nameless is going to fire the gun and dodging his aim.


It's exactly as you said- Seongjun Baek just shat on the entire Hobin Yu Company and several contract killers-
So in terms of speed tier, he should be miles above beginning of Lookism Fat Daniel- who's currently Transonic / 317 m/s.

When Nameless pulled a gun on him- Seongjun is 192 cm tall so...



There was 192cm / 1331.6 * 170 = ~24.5 centimeters between him and the gun, handguns fire at 750 - 1300 feet per second, or an average 1025 f/s or 312.42 m/s, meaning if the gun was fired, he'd have (0.245 / 312.42) 0.0007842 seconds to dodge.

Even if Seongjun was as slow as Fat Daniel (which would be dumb), he'd still be able to move 0.0007842 * 317 = 24.85914 centimeters to the left or right, which would be more than enough to dodge it. (Ignoring how Daniel's speed of 317 m/s from stopping a knife makes him faster than the handgun's 312.42 m/s, meaning even if Seongjun was as slow as Fat Daniel he'd be able to back away from the bullet faster than it could come to him, and he should be far faster than that)


1. Full scene please- also the dude has bullet wounds, which again would be prosperous for someone who can fight (20500 / 700) = ~29 times faster than an AK-47. (Think the difference in speed between brisk walking- 2 meters per second, and the speed of a sloth ~6.9 centimeters per second, or 4 to 4.5 meters per minute)

2. Dodging handgun fire at that distance is only Subsonic
Click to expand...

he got the bullet wounds while he was falling out of an airplane? Also no one has fufilled their claims here at all. You haven't even shown any evidence of a downgrade other than "well this elderly man and this crippled injured man might have seen a bullet as a threat. Oh yeah, and also this calc here than puts them at subsonic for the crippled man warrents a downgrade"

Wouldn't ONE scenario of a elderly man maybe aim dodging be more of an outlier than the many hypersonic-high hypersonic+ calcs? Thats like saying naruto verse is subsonic since its stated that guns are a threat to them.... thats more of a outlier with less proof.

Lookism verse does have tiny outliers like of characters falling 3 stories and getting injured while low tier characters could fall 10+ or the verse consistently having dozens of wall shattering feats
 
ElajRuengies said:
First of all it's not just because of that, it's also because the premise of some of the calcs are flawed.

Secondly, Samdak- a Top Tier- still has to aim dodge bullets.

And yet, he's relative to Manager Kim, who scales to Jincheol, making him High Hypersonic+ (Bullets would be basically frozen in time for him if that was accurate)

There's also things like Seongjun Baek being screwed when Nameless pulled out a gun, meanwhile Fat Daniel is Transonic. And there's no way in hell that beginning of series Fat Daniel is speed blitzing Seongjun Baek.
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It’s literally stated “He can dodge the bullet casually”
Example hansu seong being able to dodge bullets in manager Kim chapter 8 which wasn’t aim dodging

using seongjun as an argument isn’t good

1. Seongjun just got done fighting Yoo hobin company taking damage
2. He proceeds to get stabbed by the cops and fights them
3. He then proceeds to fight a group of ppl with knives stabbing him, when he pulled out the gun he was already exhausted and injured so I disagree
 
Second22 said:
Honestly, I'm still unsure of this wiki's speed calculation standards, since I haven't really seen the movement of those characters. Is it a reasonable guess? Eli might have moved before the knife came close to his eye. He might only have moved 0.2 m in that time frame. Just don't see Eli's arm moving in the image. I once thought of calculating a case like this. But I'm not sure, so I haven't done that feat yet.
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There’s no evidence supporting that, we see the knife at Eli eye and then Eli proceeds to block it before it could connect , nothing implies or shows Eli moved before it was close to his eye
 
Jetlgo244 said:
There’s no evidence supporting that, we see the knife at Eli eye and then Eli proceeds to block it before it could connect , nothing implies or shows Eli moved before it was close to his eye
Click to expand...
And there was no evidence that he moved as the knife near his eyes. Didn't see his arm position at that moment.
 
IllustriouS44 said:
You seemed to FULLY have ignored my points so let me restate the important ones relevant to what you responded with

1. That is an elderly samdak stated to be well past his prime
2. Again aim dodging was not stated
3. Seongjun Baek was HEAVILY wounded and tired and + calcing something and getting a low result isn't a downgrade of verse speeds? When has that ever been a thing,
Click to expand...
IllustriouS44 said:
he got the bullet wounds while he was falling out of an airplane? Also no one has fufilled their claims here at all. You haven't even shown any evidence of a downgrade other than "well this elderly man and this crippled injured man might have seen a bullet as a threat. Oh yeah, and also this calc here than puts them at subsonic for the crippled man warrents a downgrade"

Wouldn't ONE scenario of a elderly man maybe aim dodging be more of an outlier than the many hypersonic-high hypersonic+ calcs? Thats like saying naruto verse is subsonic since its stated that guns are a threat to them.... thats more of a outlier with less proof.

Lookism verse does have tiny outliers like of characters falling 3 stories and getting injured while low tier characters could fall 10+ or the verse consistently having dozens of wall shattering feats
Click to expand...

Don't focus on the Samdak environment. C124, Samdak moved more distance than a muzzle flash. It's reasonable to assume that top tiers would indeed have Supersonic reactions. That said I doubt his reactions would get any slower if he becomes physically weaker. Let's focus on the other details.

Does every piece of medium has to specify they're aim dodging to count as aim dodging? No.

This one I agree with it. Let's not fight with this argument since he was clearly dying. The off screen situation of the battle also implies that he was beaten through other means. Or just bled out.

That one's incredibly specific case you got there. A headcanon, if you will. In that case why are we assuming everyone in Lookism is moving only at the last second and intercepting the attack instead of moving their body to reach said attack? The abundance of art inconsistency with PTJ works is there and can go from "An attack seemingly hitting" to " a slightly different angle shows they were intercepting". The current existing calcs that are used also assume the maximum amount of distance is traversed just as the attack is about to hit and also assumes that everyone is FTE for some god forsaken reason. (Scott Kwon in particular is a massive culprit). The guy got absolutely destroyed by Zack and doesn't deserve that subsonic level he has for that calc.

Naruto treats it as an outlier with the immense number of massive explosions and lightning they have to dodge. Lookism sadly does not have any of those. Lookism is unrealistic, but the threat of guns are prevalent. They're capable enough to react to them though.

This one's truth. However that's a case for their destructive feats. Not necessarily speed. If anything a lot of people agree that speed has always been an issue that it has.


MORE IMPORTANTLY. I did the comparisons. The only thing you're going to lose is the Hypersonic and higher speed values. A good chunk of the verse is still gonna be Supersonic which is far more realistic than everyone being faster than a Jumbo Jet.
 
Ah, forget to tell. Eli's arm movement is wrong, if he moved his entire arm 90 degrees up, his hand would be farther away from the knife that was hitting his eye. This kind of movement didn't let him brush the knife away. But the knife would pierce his eye first as his arm stood straight. He should have his forearm folded 180 degrees, so the movement should be calculated from the forearm and hand, not his entire arm.
 
Anyway, what are the conclusions here so far?
 
Okay, as long as you have all reached an agreement, that is probably fine then.
 
Ciruno_Fortes_(COB) said:
Don't focus on the Samdak environment. C124, Samdak moved more distance than a muzzle flash. It's reasonable to assume that top tiers would indeed have Supersonic reactions. That said I doubt his reactions would get any slower if he becomes physically weaker. Let's focus on the other details.

Does every piece of medium has to specify they're aim dodging to count as aim dodging? No.

This one I agree with it. Let's not fight with this argument since he was clearly dying. The off screen situation of the battle also implies that he was beaten through other means. Or just bled out.

That one's incredibly specific case you got there. A headcanon, if you will. In that case why are we assuming everyone in Lookism is moving only at the last second and intercepting the attack instead of moving their body to reach said attack? The abundance of art inconsistency with PTJ works is there and can go from "An attack seemingly hitting" to " a slightly different angle shows they were intercepting". The current existing calcs that are used also assume the maximum amount of distance is traversed just as the attack is about to hit and also assumes that everyone is FTE for some god forsaken reason. (Scott Kwon in particular is a massive culprit). The guy got absolutely destroyed by Zack and doesn't deserve that subsonic level he has for that calc.

Naruto treats it as an outlier with the immense number of massive explosions and lightning they have to dodge. Lookism sadly does not have any of those. Lookism is unrealistic, but the threat of guns are prevalent. They're capable enough to react to them though.

This one's truth. However that's a case for their destructive feats. Not necessarily speed. If anything a lot of people agree that speed has always been an issue that it has.


MORE IMPORTANTLY. I did the comparisons. The only thing you're going to lose is the Hypersonic and higher speed values. A good chunk of the verse is still gonna be Supersonic which is far more realistic than everyone being faster than a Jumbo Jet.
Click to expand...
Can you explain the loss of high hypersonic+ calcs or hypersonic hobin calc? What cause of art inconsistency? Manager kim and htf is where those calcs were gotten from, which is a full on different artist? Also, why is it unrealistic for Scott Kwon to be at least BASELINE subsonic? Many many lookism lowtiers reach superhuman-subsonic speeds just from statements and insane feats, while Scott is an olympic champion considered to be a later on threat halfway through the series.

"That said I doubt his reactions would get any slower if he becomes physically weaker" he legit stated himself that he was an old man not in his prime anymore...
 
RemainsAE said:
Can you explain the loss of high hypersonic+ calcs or hypersonic hobin calc? What cause of art inconsistency? Manager kim and htf is where those calcs were gotten from, which is a full on different artist? Also, why is it unrealistic for Scott Kwon to be at least BASELINE subsonic? Many many lookism lowtiers reach superhuman-subsonic speeds just from statements and insane feats, while Scott is an olympic champion considered to be a later on threat halfway through the series.

"That said I doubt his reactions would get any slower if he becomes physically weaker" he legit stated himself that he was an old man not in his prime anymore...
Click to expand...
Do you believe that Hobin and numerous other performers of these feat would allow the attacks to reach them within centimeters, before they start swatting it away? I would be on your side if it wasn't for the fact that the rest of their movement is obscured by being 'offscreen'

Because in general using this subsonic speed scaling is already questionable and already feels like calc stacking. Are there other verses that makes use of these kind of calcs that are currently accepted in this site? If you can provide some to me then I'll stop any arguments for downgrading these verses and I'll join your side.

Also when was it ever said that Scott was too fast to see? The only ones we can actually use those values is for Zack, Johan, and Akira. In those cases, we can actually get solid values from those three. If they have feats that are actually Hypersonic or so, I'm not going to argue for them because they have numerous literal statements of being FTE. Scaling Scott to Zack who was faster than him by a large degree doesn't count.

Physically weaker yes. Also this is all the more reason for my other revision for Viral Hit Profiles which really needs pre and post-training keys
 
Okay. That seems good then.
 
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