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PTJ Universe Speed Hypersonic+ speed downgrades to Supersonic.

— Main Problems.

• Calculation.
The calculations included in the character's profile such Eli Jang, Zack Lee, and so on, lack the correct CRT and evaluation, and ignore more accurate calculations. These are the calculations used as justification. The calculations had many flaws, especially in the aspect of pixel-scaling and not using angsize. Before that, there was a calculation from a friend of mine that was accepted and the results were better, the method had been corrected by Klol. This is the better calculation. Klol's corrected calculation uses much better pixel-scaling and angsize, plus the angle of movement of the character's arm makes more sense than using assumptions without specific justification.

• Scalings.
The most important thing that would severely damage the scaling is that no character is actually shown to be as fast as the results of the calculation, because the fiction still considers the limitation of 'firearms' as an unavoidable part, plus Hypersonic+ for a schoolboy fighting fiction with the limits of normal logic interspersed with a little superpower would not make sense to be able to exceed the speed of Jet.

• No CRT for it.
Surprisingly, there is no CRT for such large-scale changes applied to the entire fiction, and the calculations used are full of flaws. So this must be addressed.

• Conclusions.
1. PTJ Universe Character's speed would be downgraded to Supersonic by my friend's calcs.
2. This would only get scaled to the head of 4 Men Crew levels.

— Votings.
• Agree: @ihsan @Middlesbrough_ @Hanif_17 @KLOL506 @Guutszz @Vasco @Jayy @Fikriskps @Aseka @GreatIskandar14045 @YueNoMoral
• Disagree:
 
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I totally agree with this thread. Because, the art made by PTJ is often inconsistent, especially lookism.
An example is this:

In the first panel, it looks like the character successfully attacked, coupled with a white effect. However, in the next panel, it turns out that the attack was parried.

This applies to speed Feats in lookism too, we often see that there are panels where the character avoids another character's attack from a very, very close distance. The attacker is usually assumed to be Subsonic, and after calculating, we usually get Supersonic or even Hypersonic. However, what happens next? The character can actually fight evenly. This is very strange where a character that was originally assumed to be Subsonic can even keep up with a character with Supersonic speed.

Agreed 10000000000% 🗿👌
 
Anything higher than Subsonic for anyone who aren't 4MC leaders level or above prior the Hostel Arc is just wrong anyway. It is outlier-ish since Jay Hong whose speed was narratively impressive, was only attacking at 70 m/s,

Supersonic Lookism is fine, but only for characters that are significantly superior to that version of Jay.
 
I totally agree with this thread. Because, the art made by PTJ is often inconsistent, especially lookism.
An example is this:

In the first panel, it looks like the character successfully attacked, coupled with a white effect. However, in the next panel, it turns out that the attack was parried.

This applies to speed Feats in lookism too, we often see that there are panels where the character avoids another character's attack from a very, very close distance. The attacker is usually assumed to be Subsonic, and after calculating, we usually get Supersonic or even Hypersonic. However, what happens next? The character can actually fight evenly. This is very strange where a character that was originally assumed to be Subsonic can even keep up with a character with Supersonic speed.

Agreed 10000000000% 🗿👌

There's many cases where the comics are indeed inconsistent.

First one isn't too bad. Third one is actually doable. But second one is indeed atrocious. I'm sure author's intent was to make it seem like he was hit but not really, however these should never be used for speeds and such. That's why the current speed calcs are very questionable. I know there exists actual feats for characters attacking FTE without having an inconsistent appearance like this.

— Main Problems.


• Conclusions.
1. PTJ Universe Character's speed would be downgraded to Supersonic by my friend's calcs.
2. This would only get scaled to the head of 4 Men Crew levels.

Do you happen to have the source of the calc? I want to see it just to see how it is

Saw it now. I'm unsure of it myself but if everyone is in agreement of using it then that should be fine
 
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Can someone please explain why verse supporters were not at all pinged for this. Also, can someone explain how people not listed as verse supporters/opponents or people who have never touched the verse once are allowed to vote on this without any thoughts? I can debunk all these claims, but at least ping me to do so. Also we followed all proper CRT's and evaluations and have been dealing with ptj scaling for months until this was brought up. Just cause your friend calced it before and got a lower result doesn't mean the entire verse needs to be downgraded when we have many other speed calcs for higher results.
 
What KLOL506 accepted here can probably be applied, but calc group members are technically not authorised to decide whether regular content revision forum threads are acceptable to apply or not. They do have authority in our calc group forum though.
I'd like to note as Elaj and Illustrious said, please ping all PTJ members next time for cases like these rather than just deciding immediately
 
Also, can someone explain how people not listed as verse supporters/opponents or people who have never touched the verse once are allowed to vote on this without any thoughts? I can debunk all these claims, but at least ping me to do so.
So we’re not allowed just cause’ our names are not on the supporters/opponents list? Nice logic, I commend your bravado.
Why is most of the reasoning in this thread just "well I don't believe it and this seems more right cause I think so"?
idk Sherlock, take a guess.
 
So we’re not allowed just cause’ our names are not on the supporters/opponents list?
One thing I will say regarding Supporters is that it does help in keeping things organized and knowing if there's other fans to consult about changes. If you're not too busy would you be interested in giving out your thoughts on some scaling chains for the verse and some ability adjustments?
 
Why is most of the reasoning in this thread just "well I don't believe it and this seems more right cause I think so"?
First of all it's not just because of that, it's also because the premise of some of the calcs are flawed.

Secondly, Samdak- a Top Tier- still has to aim dodge bullets.

And yet, he's relative to Manager Kim, who scales to Jincheol, making him High Hypersonic+ (Bullets would be basically frozen in time for him if that was accurate)

There's also things like Seongjun Baek being screwed when Nameless pulled out a gun, meanwhile Fat Daniel is Transonic. And there's no way in hell that beginning of series Fat Daniel is speed blitzing Seongjun Baek.
 
First of all it's not just because of that, it's also because the premise of some of the calcs are flawed.

Secondly, Samdak- a Top Tier- still has to aim dodge bullets.

And yet, he's relative to Manager Kim, who scales to Jincheol, making him High Hypersonic+ (Bullets would be basically frozen in time for him if that was accurate)

There's also things like Seongjun Baek being screwed when Nameless pulled out a gun, meanwhile Fat Daniel is Transonic. And there's no way in hell that beginning of series Fat Daniel is speed blitzing Seongjun Baek.
1. Reaction speed and movement speed are different
2. That is an elderly samdak stated to be well past his prime
3. he was point blank to the handgun and it was never stated that he was aimdodging that is your own headcanon
4. Explain what Seongjun Baek has to do with this
6. when have guns every been a thread to high tiers?
 
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Seongjun Baek legit was on the ground with multiple stab wounds and just fought the entire hobin company and gansters????
 
1. Reaction speed and movement speed are different
And their reaction speeds are too high.
I'm not saying that every instance of them using a car is an anti-feat for Supersonic and above speeds, I'm saying they have showings in fights against guns that are anti-feats.
2. That is an elderly samdak stated to be well past his prime
3. he was point blank to the handgun and it was never stated that he was aimdodging that is your own headcanon
From Ep 114-
"He was looking right at the trigger."
"The trigger?"
"That's right. He was staring at the trigger."
And then in Ep 124- take note of how Samdak 1. Keeps the gun pointed away from him the entire fight- which wouldn't make sense if he was High Hypersonic+ given how bullets wouldn't even be relevant at that speed and 2. Is looking at the gun in almost every panel the gun's fired.



Samdak isn't dodging the bullet, he's seeing when Nameless is going to fire the gun and dodging his aim.
4. Explain what Seongjun Baek has to do with this
Seongjun Baek legit was on the ground with multiple stab wounds and just fought the entire hobin company and gansters????
It's exactly as you said- Seongjun Baek just shat on the entire Hobin Yu Company and several contract killers-
So in terms of speed tier, he should be miles above beginning of Lookism Fat Daniel- who's currently Transonic / 317 m/s.

When Nameless pulled a gun on him- Seongjun is 192 cm tall so...



There was 192cm / 1331.6 * 170 = ~24.5 centimeters between him and the gun, handguns fire at 750 - 1300 feet per second, or an average 1025 f/s or 312.42 m/s, meaning if the gun was fired, he'd have (0.245 / 312.42) 0.0007842 seconds to dodge.

Even if Seongjun was as slow as Fat Daniel (which would be dumb), he'd still be able to move 0.0007842 * 317 = 24.85914 centimeters to the left or right, which would be more than enough to dodge it. (Ignoring how Daniel's speed of 317 m/s from stopping a knife makes him faster than the handgun's 312.42 m/s, meaning even if Seongjun was as slow as Fat Daniel he'd be able to back away from the bullet faster than it could come to him, and he should be far faster than that)

1. Full scene please- also the dude has bullet wounds, which again would be prosperous for someone who can fight (20500 / 700) = ~29 times faster than an AK-47. (Think the difference in speed between brisk walking- 2 meters per second, and the speed of a sloth ~6.9 centimeters per second, or 4 to 4.5 meters per minute)

2. Dodging handgun fire at that distance is only Subsonic
 
May need to fix all speed calculations. Give all them Subsonic.
The first downgrade wants to set them to Supersonic thanks to an Eli feat. Surprisingly a lot of people still reach that level due to being Crew Head level (even Daniel second key). But yes everyone else would be Subsonic. This is much more reasonable honestly
 
Honestly, I'm still unsure of this wiki's speed calculation standards, since I haven't really seen the movement of those characters. Is it a reasonable guess? Eli might have moved before the knife came close to his eye. He might only have moved 0.2 m in that time frame. Just don't see Eli's arm moving in the image. I once thought of calculating a case like this. But I'm not sure, so I haven't done that feat yet.
 
Just to note I am Ciruno Fortes for future refs. I'm currently combining all the speed nerfs, previous ability additions I had set up, and current re-scaling I have in mind for the verse in one big document. But I'm also in full support.
What is the username of your currently used wiki account?

Also, you need to update your username in all of the regular wiki pages (verse pages and the knowledgeable members lists) where it is currently listed.
 
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