Prototype Speed Revisions

[AbeLincoln1865]

Looking at our Alex Mercer profile, the speed here is almost completely invalid. The M1 Abrams in Prototype do not fire real world tank muntions and the munitions they do fire are much slower than the bullets in the game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CI25sYr90tM&feature=youtu.be&t=610

Furthermore Alex has many antifeats of being shot:

https://gfycat.com/coldmetallicicelandgull

https://i.imgur.com/m4heLuc.jpg

https://gfycat.com/RespectfulNaughtyAsiandamselfly

https://gfycat.com/EvenDemandingAardwolf

https://gfycat.com/BabyishCoolGrub

https://gfycat.com/elegantcolossalconch

His one comic feat of dodging bullets is not explicitly bullet timing and also at least partially due to the shooter having bad aim, as they hit people nowhere near Mercer: https://i.imgur.com/k7CcT21.jpg

As for James Heller, his speed scaling based off people other than Mercer, is an Evolved named Roland, who supposedly made a sonic boom: https://youtu.be/y6L0rWDnQaQ?t=86

The problem with this is that it only happens when he's at his slowest point in the scene. Additonally, if you look at the "boom" frame by frame, when it starts he isn't moving at all. Finally, the "boom" makes no noise.

With all this in mind, I recommend we revise these profiles significantly.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

game logic my guy its simular to how someone like kratos who can move at MFTL+ speed can get hit by some random soldier in game

as for anti feats you bring up

1. this happens at the very start of the game the second mercer got off the morgue table and was still confused hell he couldn't belive the fact that he just survived multiple shots form a rifle

2. that was a suprise attack by the daughter as he was trying to run away with her and was off gurd its like saying SSB goku is lower then light speed cuse he got cut off gurd by the laser shot in reserection of F

3. why are you even using this mercer was infitrating he wasn't trying to fight randal there plus he wanted to know the plan(also a bit of Pis since he could've instently killed and absorbed the genral right off the bat but he didn't)

4. how is this an anti feat he blocked the attack

5. he dodges same rokets in game so don't see how this even applys

6. same point as 1 this happens breifly after the start of the game mercer is confused and in that moment he was resting/sleeping and not even fighting

this is not even a feat and we don't use it we use another comic scan

are we really doing this now nitpicking the fact that the game that has superviruses that turn people into superman don't follow all laws of reality like sonic booms making sound?

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

WTF?

 

[The_Impress]

I would like the other users to know that the OP is a relatively new user, and as such, they should tone down their harshness significantly.

But yes, as Sir sun man puts it, the revisions proposed seemed more based on what one might observe rather than what the actual calculations yield, alongside the anti-feats being littered with PIS and CIS

 

[Sir_sun_man]

appologies

 

[Migue79]

Yeah. I... Don't agree with using PIS & CIS to downgrade a character with legitimate feats. It's like one of the worst ways to downplay a character.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Well it looks like sun has covered this pretty well then, there are several issues with those anti feats and game logic. So should this just be closed? I don't really see anything we would view as valid here...

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Pretty sure we're done here. Someone can close this now.

 

[The_Impress]

Yeah, got busy for a sec, I'll close it

Again, any disagreements, contact me on the message wall

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

K thanks! Didn't mean to be a bother

 

[The_Impress]

The OP asks for the thread to be unlocked on the grounds he didn't get to respond.

 

[AbeLincoln1865]

That wasn't my point, my point was that the M1 Abrams munitions in Prototype are clearly not real or supersonic.

1. Again, if he was supersonic in movement speed and reflexes, he wouldn't have gotten shot.

2. He was literally looking at the person who shot him before she opened fire: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/TxQ_mB5C8...nYbJk5_RcGuP73PCUwDjiam-4LL_IfQ95fAlYiV=s1600

Goku didn't know about the laser and couldn't sense it, they're not comparable at all.

3. I suppose you're right, but this is still supoorting evidence for Mercer not being supersonic.

4. If he was supersonic he would've dodged especially since the rocket hurt him enough that he disguised himself as a Blackwatch soldier.

5. Aren't you just say game logic was unimportant, implying that cutscene feats are more important than gameplay ones?

6. You're right again, but this is still supporting evidence.

So you're saying we should assume some random gust of air is a sonic boom when it displays none of the properties of one?

 

[AbeLincoln1865]

I would like the other users to know that the OP is a relatively new user, and as such, they should tone down their harshness significantly.
But yes, as Sir sun man puts it, the revisions proposed seemed more based on what one might observe rather than what the actual calculations yield, alongside the anti-feats being littered with PIS and CIS

There are no calculations, Mercer's profile doesn't try to compare his speed at all to the Abrams round it just says he's supersonic because he can dodge them.

 

[The_Impress]

Don't quote textwalls, and don't multi-post, please.

I'll be responding later on

 

[AbeLincoln1865]

My bad, sorry Zark.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

ok a better example is infamaus as the lighting bolts guys like castler and cole shoot don't seem to move faster then bullets in game but they still act like lighting so their movement speed is classed as MHS+ simular thing here

1. lets say i wake you up in a middle of the night and before you could even understand what is happening i trow a ball in your face will you dodge it? Most likely not

2. missing the point pal mercer didn't see the girl as a threat(since she really wasn't) and he didn't want to kill her so ageing off gurd

3. not really since its clearly dosen't apply in combat situations

4. wrong point here man this was the granade that he blocked

5. PIS my guy we have him dodging same missiles not only in game but in other cutseens

6. if im right it ain't supporting evidance but what ever

yeah a gust of wind that clearly destorts space around itself just like a sonic boom you know like all gusts of wind do

 

[Sir_sun_man]

There are no calculations, Mercer's profile doesn't try to compare his speed at all to the Abrams round it just says he's supersonic because he can dodge them.

abrams thank shells move at mach 4.6 or supersonic speeds

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Your starting off with the very flawed premise that the tank ammunition in prototype is somehow different from real world munitions with nothing supporting this idea or premise. so ignoring this bizarre piece of headcannon.

1 he just woke up in a morgue and believed himself to be human, even with supersonic reflexes i highly doubt i would think to dodge something shooting me, the thought would never enter my mind.so a few explanations the most obvious being pis.

2 And bullets can't hurt him and in that comic he loved that girl, i see zero reason he would bother to dodge in this scenario where he's dealing with the fact the girl he cared for. He's well aware she cant harm him and is still acting as a human. So a case of not needing to dodge and pis.

3 Its not supporting evidence, he lets a guy shoot him while infiltrating and due to plot doesn't eat him right away. Nothing here supports your premise.

4 why do you think it "hurt him?" Literally the first mission alex tanks a similar missile from a helicopter and it just annoys him enough to chuck a taxi at the thing. 51 second mark part of alex mo is ******* with people just look what he did to karen parker. This just seems like nother case of alex messing with his victims.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Bruh.

 

[The_Impress]

Again, it seems this is taking feats out of context for the sake of downgrades. I am far more inclined to agree with Sun man and Pen about the anti-feats being littered by PIS and there being little to no reason to believe for the tanks to be firing ammunition that is at least comparable to their real world counterparts

 

[AbeLincoln1865]

Okay but the M1 Abrams munitions are literally not real, as in they have no real world equivalent unlike lightning.

1. Mercer was confused, yes, but a good amount of time passed between him waking up and getting shot and he had enough presence of mind to hide from Blackwatch.

2. He kills her almost immediately: https://i.imgur.com/6hEE5qh.jpg

4. Grenade launchers are even slower than rocket launchers, so this is just schemantics.

5. Do you have any examples of these cutscenes?

Characters in Prototype distort space all the time while explicitly not being supersonic like when Mercer or Heller glide.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

exuse me? where do you think we got their speed from

1. 10-20 minutes is not a long periode my guy, also said soldiers just gunned down 4 people

2. yeah if i got shot 5 times because i'd probobly kill the person who did that too if im honest with ya

3. you were the first to bring it up

4. i do you one better here is a cutscene in the early stages of prototype 2 where heller is still comperable to early game alex mercer and infirior to the mercer in the cutscene that you use and he doesn't dodge the missile he diflects it which is far more impressive by a large margine https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebMdgxra59s&t=220s time stamp 3:36-3:46

yeah they do that by jutting out their biomass here there is no red glow no blood just pure air and light destortion

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

"Distorting space while gliding"? You mean when their Biomass trails after them and it's sorta see through?

 

[AbeLincoln1865]

Your starting off with the very flawed premise that the tank ammunition in prototype is somehow different from real world munitions with nothing supporting this idea or premise. so ignoring this bizarre piece of headcannon.
1 he just woke up in a morgue and believed himself to be human, even with supersonic reflexes i highly doubt i would think to dodge something shooting me, the thought would never enter my mind.so a few explanations the most obvious being pis.

2 And bullets can't hurt him and in that comic he loved that girl, i see zero reason he would bother to dodge in this scenario where he's dealing with the fact the girl he cared for. He's well aware she cant harm him and is still acting as a human. So a case of not needing to dodge and pis.

3 Its not supporting evidence, he lets a guy shoot him while infiltrating and due to plot doesn't eat him right away. Nothing here supports your premise.

4 why do you think it "hurt him?" Literally the first mission alex tanks a similar missile from a helicopter and it just annoys him enough to chuck a taxi at the thing. 51 second mark part of alex mo is ******* with people just look what he did to karen parker. This just seems like nother case of alex messing with his victims.

The real M1 Abrams doesn't use self propelled munitions like the one in Prototype as shown in the clip I posted.

1. Real world humans would probably at least try to run away, not to mention Mercer should see the bullets move in slow motion if he's supersonic.

2. If he cared for her like you're saying, he could've dodged and tried to talk things out.

4. The helicopter rocket did seem to affect him considering he yells shit after being hit and getting hit by it in the first place is also an antifeat, so your points cancel out.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Point #4 literally happens right after he gets out of the morgue and has no idea what is happening.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

1. he did aswell not to mention my dood amnisia is a big plot point in P1

2. he did though before she shot him over money and then he killed her, like really would you try to talk out things with the person that flat out betrayed you and try to kill you?

3. yelling shit is not a significant effect mah guy you'd yell shit if you stubbed yer toe but its not a considreble effect on yer body

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

1 just woke up, didn't even know he could leap over the six foot fence until after eating the blackwatch soldier why would he think to run up the wall/dodge, he still believes he's human until he eats that blackwatch soldier after which he tanks a missile and leaps over a massive fence literally mumbling about how the hell he did that.

2 bullets can't hurt mercer and he loved her, that bullet pushed him over the edge, he had no reason to dodge...you think alex mercer would talk things out? ever? You do know his character right

3 your the one that brought up the grenade for...some reason?

4 It shot him from behind while he was running away at the weakest he has ever been so again not sure what your trying to imply here. He ran away and got shot in the back by a missile, id yell oh shit to regardless of if I was hurt which alex clearly wasn't. he gets knocked around and throws a taxi in recompense.

(why aren't you using the number three?)

So can we just nuke this, Ive seen this user doing a similar thing with spider man feats in an attempt to get him upgraded. He tries to take feats out of context, ignore any pis elements to get across the change he desires.

I see no reason this is any different, heck its worse because he starting with a bizarre belief that the munitions we see in prototype are for some reason vastly slower then real life munitions when this has never been suggested or shown.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

This is really dumb.

 

[The_Impress]

Yeah... shouldn't have reopened the thread in the first place.

I'll wait for a few more responses, preferably staff, and then close this

@XSOULOFCINDERX If you're here to just heckle please don't?

 

[AbeLincoln1865]

exuse me? where do you think we got their speed from
1. 10-20 minutes is not a long periode my guy, also said soldiers just gunned down 4 people

2. yeah if i got shot 5 times because i'd probobly kill the person who did that too if im honest with ya

3. you were the first to bring it up

4. i do you one better here is a cutscene in the early stages of prototype 2 where heller is still comperable to early game alex mercer and infirior to the mercer in the cutscene that you use and he doesn't dodge the missile he diflects it which is far more impressive by a large margine https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebMdgxra59s&t=220s time stamp 3:36-3:46

yeah they do that by jutting out their biomass here there is no red glow no blood just pure air and light destortion

By assuming the munitions the Abrams in the game fire are exactly the same speed as their real world shells, even though they're not shells or real and also move slower than bullets.

1. It would be more than long enough for a non superhuman to regain lucidity after waking up after sleeping. The latter would just encourage most people to make a run for it, so it doesn't realy gel with your point.

2. Well it also means he would prefer not to get shot and dodge.

3. I made a minor error that didn't matter which you decided to harp on? Whatever man.

4. He literally just blocks the missile, a normal human could probably do this speed wise.

The red lines they emanate are not biomass, there's no statement on what exactly it is.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

1 Again he didin't even realize he could hop a six foot fence until he ate the soldier, he wasn't acting superhuman until he after that point. so disorentated still thinking he's human mercer didn't dodge. after which helicopter explosion, jumping meters in the air ect. so not sure what the heck your point is.

2 Ummm what?

3 you brought it up so....

4 in game there gliding is described as feathering out there mass, which makes zero sense but supports the tendrils they leak are them feathering out there mass so...yeah, there air dash is also described as him forming an organ to realease burst of air....

 

[Sir_sun_man]

1. ageing amnisia mercer as in virus mercer has littrealy just been "born" for a lack of a better word their ain't much lusidity to gain im afreid.

2. he had no reason to dodge an unexpected attack

3. k

4. he did just block it he litrealy redirects the missile back at the man firing it two very different things

 

[Sir_sun_man]

so anyone gona reply

i wana go to sleep

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

This seems pretty much handled and death noodles should be on soon enough I think between the two of us we should be able to handle whatevers left of...this. So feel free to hit the hay,

 

[Schnee_One]

I don't agree FRA

I also agree with Zark. So yeah, closing