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Prototype CRT.

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XSOULOFCINDERX

XSOULOFCINDERX

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So I saw that we added a new power to VSB, that being the Hive Mind Ability. Alex Mercer by the end of Prototype 1, Elizabeth Greene and Post-Mercer Consumed James Heller get the Type 2 Variant of it since they're all connected to the same Hive Mind as each other but all have Unique Personalities of their own. The Evolved, specifically Doctor Archer would get this too but in a more limited fashion since she can only use it to Summon Brawlers which Mid-Game Heller also gets from Consuming her.

As my second order of business, I think we should give the Devastators, Blade and Armor the same 2× Amp as Musclemass since the first game goes out of it's way to showcase them as the absolute peak of Alex's Arsenal with the Devastators on their own dealing more damage than anything else Alex can do and then you can stack Musclemass on top of those to give them that greater than 2× Boost from Musclemass meaning a Musclemass Boosted Devastator would be Unquantifiably Above a 4× Increase in Power. Heller would get these same buffs after consuming Mercer as well and the Supreme Hybrid would get the Above 2× Multiplier for it's Devastator too.

This last point is kind of a Nitpick, but can we stop saying the Evolved Scale to Endgame P1 Alex when they clearly don't?
 
XSOULOFCINDERX said:
So I saw that we added a new power to VSB, that being the Hive Mind Ability. Alex Mercer by the end of Prototype 1, Elizabeth Greene and Post-Mercer Consumed James Heller get the Type 2 Variant of it since they're all connected to the same Hive Mind as each other but all have Unique Personalities of their own. The Evolved, specifically Doctor Archer would get this too but in a more limited fashion since she can only use it to Summon Brawlers which Mid-Game Heller also gets from Consuming her.
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This point seems fine.
XSOULOFCINDERX said:
As my second order of business, I think we should give the Devastators, Blade and Armor the same 2× Amp as Musclemass since the first game goes out of it's way to showcase them as the absolute peak of Alex's Arsenal with the Devastators on their own dealing more damage than anything else Alex can do and then you can stack Musclemass on top of those to give them that greater than 2× Boost from Musclemass meaning a Musclemass Boosted Devastator would be Unquantifiably Above a 4× Increase in Power. Heller would get these same buffs after consuming Mercer as well and the Supreme Hybrid would get the Above 2× Multiplier for it's Devastator too.
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If they don't have stated multipliers, they are just treated as unquantifiable. More staffs inputs are welcome, though.
XSOULOFCINDERX said:
This last point is kind of a Nitpick, but can we stop saying the Evolved Scale to Endgame P1 Alex when they clearly don't?
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Fair. Evolved just powerscaled to James Heller.
 
Elizhaa said:
This point seems fine.

If they don't have stated multipliers, they are just treated as unquantifiable. More staffs inputs are welcome, though.

Fair. Evolved just powerscaled to James Heller.
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OK.

They don't, but the game goes out of it's way to portray them as far superior to Musclemass since Alex gaining the Armor and Blade was treated as him getting a big power increase since he caused an explosion just from activating Armor for the first time and the Sword is what Alex Canonically uses to Finish off the Supreme Hybrid who is far superior to him in Raw Power Base to Base.

Yeah, but even then Heller doesn't even scale to Endgame P1 Alex until the very end of P2 where he surpassed P2 Base Alex. Before that he literally got Two-Shot by him.
 
It might just be gameplay mechanics, especially since it is no longer the case in Prototype 2, but the blade is hands down the most powerful weapon in the first game. It basically renders the other weapons, except for small niche uses like the range of the whip, useless just by existing. It should be considered unquantifiably higher than muscle mass, in my opinion. Same with devastators.
 
From what I know, The multiplier is just accepted as unqualifiedly above x2, from Musclemass Boost (Prototype Prima Official Guide). From what I check on Alex Mercer's profile, Devastators already upscaled from Musclemass boost (Prototype Prima Official Guide). Heller’s profile should have gotten the updates a while back. About Blade Power, it is stated to have the most powerful strikes available so I could see it upscaled from Musclemass Boost (Prototype Prima Official). Armor power just boosts attack resistance, though (Prototype Prima Official Guide).
 
Elizhaa said:
From what I know, The multiplier is just accepted as unqualifiedly above x2, from Musclemass Boost (Prototype Prima Official Guide). From what I check on Alex Mercer's profile, Devastators already upscaled from Musclemass boost (Prototype Prima Official Guide). Heller’s profile should have gotten the updates a while back. About Blade Power, it is stated to have the most powerful strikes available so I could see it upscaled from Musclemass Boost (Prototype Prima Official). Armor power just boosts attack resistance, though (Prototype Prima Official Guide).
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I'm aware of all this, I wasn't trying to say Armor scales above Musclemass, I was just lumping it together with Blade because I was explaining what happened when he got those powers. That being said, I'm surprised that the Blade wasn't already using said statement on the Profile.
 
XSOULOFCINDERX said:
I'm aware of all this, I wasn't trying to say Armor scales above Musclemass, I was just lumping it together with Blade because I was explaining what happened when he got those powers. That being said, I'm surprised that the Blade wasn't already using said statement on the Profile.
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Alright on Armor's point. For Blade's statement, I think they are just from a user's interpretation, not valid sources like primary, secondary, or the like so I don't think its text was used for the reason and I don't recall anyone making a CRT on it either.
Musclemass Boosted Devastator being Unquantifiably Above a 4× Increase in Power might be needed more inputs.
I am fine with Unquantifiably x2 multipliers at least and the other things in my first post.
 
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Elizhaa said:
Musclemass Boosted Devastator being Unquantifiably Above a 4× Increase in Power might be needed more inputs.
I am fine with Unquantifiably x2 multipliers at least and the other things in my first post.
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I think the second point about the unquantifiably above 4x AP multiplier comes from both Blade and Devastators being more powerful than the Musclemass ability by itself, with Musclemass providing a 2x AP multiplier over baseline AP (that is, Blacklight characters’ AP without any Offensive Powers) without any upgrades for Musclemass.

In the cutscenes, Alex Mercer has shown to be capable of dual-wielding his Offensive Powers, and his Musclemass could be used to even augment Devastators. Basically, it was demonstrated that same 2x AP multiplier could also carry over to the Blade ability and Devastators, as Musclemass can also be used as a support ability as it would as a offensive ability.

Basically, I think the OP’s second point is suggesting that, since both baseline Blade and Devastators are more powerful than Musclemass by itself, baseline Blade and Devastators scales quantifiably above 2x AP multiplier. And since the Musclemass multiplier could be used to amplify Blade and Devastators, they both get a 2x AP amplifier on top of their baseline states, which should logically make them scale to unquantifiably above 4x AP. Or in short, Musclemass (2x baseline AP multiplier) < Blade < Devastators, and Musclemass-amped Blade < Musclemass-amped Devastators (2x baseline AP multiplier on top of their baseline power, which should logically make them scale unquantifiably above 4x baseline AP).
 
I could see the point of multipliers; though, it is best to get more inputs since I saw similar cases being rejected. @ByAsura since you are looks familiar with the verse, what do you think about the multipliers?
 
Not sure about blades, armour or whipfist, but Hammerfist is portrayed as the most forceful weapon in Heller and Mercer's respective arsenals. I'd also argue there's a pretty good case for tendrils. Devastators would logically scale far above any of these weapons.

It's worth noting that Musclemass is one of the abilities Mercer doesn't even bother using against Heller, despite using stuff like Cannonball and other Prototype 1-only abilities.

As for the P2 Evolved not scaling to endgame P1 Mercer, I agree due to the lack of evidence. However, Koenig was able to give Heller a lot of trouble (but was weaker) after he'd killed and consumed a Phase-2 Orion Soldier, so I'd argue they're not vastly inferior to him.
 
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ByAsura said:
Not sure about blades, armour or whipfist, but Hammerfist is portrayed as the most forceful weapon in Heller and Mercer's respective arsenals. I'd also argue there's a pretty good case for tendrils. Devastators would logically scale far above any of these weapons.

It's worth noting that Musclemass is one of the abilities Mercer doesn't even bother using against Heller, despite using stuff like Cannonball and other Prototype 1-only abilities.

As for the P2 Evolved not scaling to endgame P1 Mercer, I agree due to the lack of evidence. However, Koenig was able to give Heller a lot of trouble (but was weaker) after he'd killed and consumed a Phase-2 Orion Soldier, so I'd argue they're not vastly inferior to him.
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We literally have a statement from the Guidebook that puts the Blade above everything else in Alex's Arsenal that isn't a Devastator in P1 that Elizhaa linked earlier which would include Musclemass which is confirmed In-Game to be a greater than 2×.

You know what else Mercer didn't consider using against Heller? His Armor which is a Non-Optional ability from P1 that literally never gets brought up ever in P2 by either him or Heller in anyway. He never used any Devastators either like Critical Pain which I bet would've been real helpful.

Why the hell would the Phase 2 Orion Soldier be anywhere near P1 Endgame Alex in Strength when Heller after consuming several evolved plus the Orion Project guys literally got Two-Shot by Mercer?
 
XSOULOFCINDERX said:
We literally have a statement from the Guidebook that puts the Blade above everything else in Alex's Arsenal that isn't a Devastator in P1 that Elizhaa linked earlier which would include Musclemass which is confirmed In-Game to be a greater than 2×.
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I missed that. I can see it now, so this should be fine.
XSOULOFCINDERX said:
You know what else Mercer didn't consider using against Heller? His Armor which is a Non-Optional ability from P1 that literally never gets brought up ever in P2 by either him or Heller in anyway. He never used any Devastators either like Critical Pain which I bet would've been real helpful.
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I guess it's inconsistency, or it just wouldn't have been too helpful in a high-speed fight.
XSOULOFCINDERX said:
Why the hell would the Phase 2 Orion Soldier be anywhere near P1 Endgame Alex in Strength when Heller after consuming several evolved plus the Orion Project guys literally got Two-Shot by Mercer?
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In all honesty, I was switching around the Greene and Super Soldier missions, but Prototype 2 Mercer is nowhere close Prototype 1 Mercer. The latter had extreme trouble with D-Codes even after absorbing Greene, and we don't even have them as the same key on his profile.

Anyway, that's neither here nor there. We can just scale them above the Phase 2 Orions in general.
 
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I guess the above x2 multipliers are accepted for the abilities like Blade Power. @ByAsura , thanks for the inputs earlier; also, what do you think about above x4 multiplier for the devastators like for Musclemass?
 
That one I'm not sure about.

It wouldn't actually change Mercer's tier, so I think it's fine to say that should/possibly/likely be the case.

From memory, it does double/more than double the devastator in-game.
 
To briefly clarify the OP's second point, and summarise my previous clarification, the 4x baseline AP multiplier only applies to attacks from baseline abilities more powerful than Musclemass as a weapon ability, such as Blade or Devastators.

So only Devastators that are enhanced by Musclemass and the like would gain above 4x baseline AP multiplier, via Devastators gaining 2x AP increase over baseline (which are above Offensive Powers stronger than the 2x baseline AP Musclemass as a weapon ability).

Baseline Devastators, that is Devastators without the enhancement of Musclemass, only unquantifiably scales above 2x baseline AP via being more powerful than Offensive Powers stronger than Musclemass as a weapon ability such as Blade.
 
I haven't even touched the game so I have no knowledge at all, but from what's been said I'm neutral on the multipliers. Everything else in the OP seems okay to add though.
 
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I thought the profiles weren't unlocked, but I was misreading it.
 
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