Son, the argument is not solely gun speed lul, its that this shit causes significant issues regardless of what end you take. Either top tiers are Rel and so are guns (at least in that ballpark). Have fun with relativistic Thumb goons then. Or they arent rel. One being Rel implies the other thing to be Rel as well.
I don't think IDs scale any differently, in their uptie story- yes. But Limbus hasn't shown any weird power discrepencies beyond the kit and the obvious damage numbers in their abilities, I think it's hax bumps more then anything- afterall, ID uptying revolves around releasing potential and technique- not literally bringing out the strength of the supposed character. If this was the case, Sora Don would be kind of cooking harder then usual. Though, I don't mind it, it'd probably be:
Its good there's a varies rating cuz I'm not living in a world were Zwei Sinclair would be rated low 7-B
Nah that'd be only for specific IDs, Zwei Sinclair's bum ass is not hitting that god tier
Makes sense, but why You? I understand Philip, Middle and Ren, but You is a strange choiceNah that'd be only for specific IDs, Zwei Sinclair's bum ass is not hitting that god tier
His strongest "ID" would be Philip/Middle/You and the upcoming ren ID
Thinking that all of the Heishou IDs should be on above average of High 8-C while the Adept should be higher, and then there's Zaust
Yeah, they don't seem tough individually and I recall from canto 8 that their strength lies in topography or smth like that
Only real notable ID outside of those two, no good reason beyond that, though the You is characterized to be more lethal I guess?
Honestly I'm pretty unsure.
In the Rel thread, it is accepted that Vespa downscales from Don Quxiote's Low 7-B feat there.
Seeing as the first fight is scripted to end with Araya wiping out everyone with her finishing move regardless of what Identity the Sinners are using I'd say there is basis to Sora's statement and Araya directly scaling to Low 7-B.
The Apprentices who has endure the abuse and harsh training and became the fighters who have the potential of fighting the grade 1 fixers vs a 8 years old girl
You're making a point that has nothing to do with my rebuttal. I'm pointing out that there's no evidence to suggest that the speed of a bullet isn't sublight.
...? Yes there is? The lack of proof that they are? Because the claim "relativistic bullets" I reckon is quite extraordinary, to the point that it requires adequate proof even.
It's possible, but kind of unlikely given this is the guy who's literally like "Why be smart when you have the brawn" and proceeds to beat the tar out of everything without caring about their unique abilities and gimmicks. He also never shows off anything special for pinning a target down or bypassing speed by other means despite being willing to cut his own apprentice in half for a combat advantage later on (And this is a possibly rating to begin with, there just needs to be a notable chance for it to be true), the most likely thing is that he just cornered and hit it
The people who are scaling to Rel are the people who upscale significantly from people capable of running across the room and deflecting a bullet before it even leaves the barrel. Guns are far from a speed cap, they even openly acknowledge this in dialogue (Separately from the cost aspect mind you, which Roland goes into immediately after delivering this line)
Vespa can see their motions back when he wasn't a color fixer, and while he isn't able to just tag them outright in the same fashion, it also bares noting that the conditions are significantly worse, being the middle of an open street rather than a series of hallways. And I'll really emphasize, the current MHS feat is from trainees trying to become the type of people that Gebura can win a 1v8 against, the gap genuinely is just very big.
Thumb goons do not scale to the feat, though it's also worth noting they do in fact have very specific workshops making their stuff and we've seen out there forms of bullets like Atelier Logic stuff basically being a railgun. The technology of the setting's definitely made weirder things than a faster bullet for characters able to shell out money for advanced equipment.
Or he could have just crushed the corpses before the abno jumped into them, until it had only 1 corpse left to jump into. I simply find it massivly iffy to give such a massive stat upgrade to a mere possibility.
I also have massive problems with those calcs mind you, as i mentioned above. Like, how can you type this out and not realise the massive issue that this comes with? How can you argue mid tiers being so fast that they blitz bullets before they even leave the barrel in a setting in which top tier characters uses guns, some even using them as their main way of combat (Rabbits and Udjat)? Like we are talking about speeds in which multiple shounen fights have taken place back to back before the bullet even crossed a single meter. Why even use guns at this point then? Any characters above thumb soldatos would have more success throwing the whole bullet at their opponents with their rel speed combat speed then. Does no one here see how ridiculous this is?
The emphasis being on Vespa barely being able to perceive it. Thats different from implying that they can fight at that speed (Which Vespa clearly coudn't)
I said my piece to the MHS feat. I also have to question why exactly we are using PMoons janky animations to scale? I could get scans of Limbus characters hitting enemies across the screen with clearly melee attacks thanks positioning bugs, dont think that would be valid for a range upgrade?
This is the third time this argument dropped and I can only repeat myself; I dont claim that this is impossible or not possibly the case. But we are arguing with "could be", "its not impossible", "maybes" and not with actual facts. Worse of all, every argument I read till here is circular as shit. What, PM guns are possibly faster than real life guns because they can tag MHS characters? Yeah sure I could see that! Remind me again, how are those characters MHS in the first place again? Based on a calc involing a PM gun? Ah, we assumed regular gun speed? Then how the **** are those same guns possibly faster then. And lets just say they are. You gonna readjust the calcs upwards then? You see the problem? (For the record, I'm not trying to be snarky here, this is my attempt to make a humorous argument).
By the time Matthias fights them, the entire LCE facility is absolutely littered with bodies. If he really stomped around the entire facility killing it one by one he would have just regrouped with Kira while still trying to deal with it.
It's still a feat in the range, is all I'm trying to say there. Matthias isn't the only indication they can at least compare to lightspeed, it's not outlandish to say it's a possibility when Vespa 2 years prior to becoming a Color could manage that.
In Somber Procuration's case that's the intended function of the move, charging across the range and attacking the enemy. It consistently has that interaction where most melee pages don't, it's not a technical error like someone skipping forward a bit or grabbing someone from across the room like they're Marth because they knocked the enemy too far back or were dealing with something ranged.
More specifically it's the fact that the setting has all kinds of advanced technology depending on what can be afforded and thus causes massive dissonances between higher and lower tier characters despite seemingly having the same types of clothing and of weapons.
A gun wielded by a small time office which stretched their money incredibly thin just getting firearms at all
The same guns, being the ones used by fullstop, aren't faster beyond the Atelier bullet. Rather different guns used by higher end fighters such as the Soldatos present in Star of the City when Librarians have grown much more powerful, should be much faster from their showings.
I mean... what speed do you think Roland is, then? You mentioned bullets explicitly as a cap in the post I was responding to, and you've voiced grievances on the feats that aren't Supersonic, but now you're saying that he can be faster in the same breadth as a mention of a core part of the setting being ignored? Would they be less ignored if we used specifically something like the time ripper temporally accelerating themselves through hundreds of hours within a few seconds, despite that still putting them in the MHS range?
But why is the assumption that they fought across the whole lCE facility in the first place? They literally coudnt have, they would had ran into the other teams if they did. Matthias probably destroyed every corpse near them and then finished the one possesed by HT.
I argue that there is a huge difference between barely rel perception vs barely rel combat speed.
Okay, lets just accept this as facts then, i can't proof nor debunk this right now. If I replicate this moment against Kalos or Roland range pages, do we then adjust the upwards until we reach mftl?
See, I dont believe this is unreasonable to assume. That is most likely the case. But is this reasonable assumption proof enough that those high end guns are so massively faster that entire civilizations could rise and fall between low end and high end guns being fired?
This argument really irks me. What happened to nuance?? I said that bullet are a soft cap narratively. This DOES NOT imply that nothing in PM is faster than bullets, but that the existence of bullets within the top tiers doesnt allow for speeds that completely invalidate said bullets. If we take Rolands statement for example, this statement would proof a myriad of speed tierings above bullets. I have mentioned it above already, how Rolands statement could work even if god tiers were just twice as fast a bullets. 5 Times, 10 times. But the mere fact that Roland uses guns himself implies that said speed above bullets cant be too high, or else it would be a literal liability for him to pull them out against anything above punkass proselytes.
Tbh, I don't think its that big for you to up-and-leave PM scaling on the site entirely, I don't think its that serious really. I'm neutral based on your points as I see both sides here- but I don't think its that extreme since you don't see eye-to-eye on speed to just poof yk?
Im removing myself precisly because its not a big deal.
Sinclair can genuinely stack poise without egos, I can give you my friend code if you want me to show you it, no egos, just stacking like the full stops.
Dw, I already have him, I just wanted to know cuz I plan on replacing Cinq Sinclair
Remove Cinq Sinclair, poise is mostly pride resonance anyways, test him and you'll see how it goes
Damn, power creep is so bad that Cinq Sinclair is not as good as he used to be, but atleast Renclair is an actual poise identity and not a disgrace that was BL sinclair
Tbf Cinqlair at this point is 2 years old as an ID.
Nice, but it needs scans. Also Araya having precog is sort of an issue to me since if she had that then the whole family drama would have been avoided methinks.
I already linked 2 videos that showcase her abilities, so I think that's enough. Also regarding Araya having precognition, aside from the her gameplay attack and passive there's also the fact that in Canto 9-49 Dante says "The moment Araya approached, memories from neither past nor present, but the future, rushed into me for a split second before scattering away."
Unc, at least you didn't get a stroke, meanwhile I witnessed the HSR and Genshind debates which is way mega worse than this kekw
The reasonings for the precog on Araya's profile just seems like flavor text as there is no blatant way of it showing at all in the attacks. Plus the Dante thing happens sometimes when Dante fights specific enemies i.e Dongrang. It still doesn't feel enough imo. Also it just doesn't make sense for Araya to have precog and still be resentful towards Ryoshu.
We might get to that level soooooon
How far exactly are you assuming that she'd be able to see? Cause it could be simply that she can only see into the near future(i.e. no further than a few seconds/minutes).
Thats the problem. I can't tell because of it was few minutes/seconds then she'd be like Valencina, but if it was further future, then this whole family drama would have been avoided
Life is not long enough to cry about gacha game stats
not even flavor text, random attack names. It's made incredibly clear by the story that Araya's quantum entanglement is screwing with her consciousness and ability to really understand what's going on. It jettisons her out of current moments, it doesn't give her insights into the future until she's severed by Arayashiki and she can see her whole life more clearly. An attack name being labelled "You have failed to stop the future" is an insanely weak foundation to say otherwise (And afterimage of the future is just like... even trying to take it at completely face value, we SEE her make afterimages with her blows, that has nothing to do with precognition)
