Probably The Simplest Sword Art Online CRT Ever

[RitsuØ1]

An Incarnation of the Radius

Attack Potency: City Block level+ (Is capable of creating an explosion of such a magnitude with its lasers. Destroyed a large portion of the battleground with its giant roots)

Kirito & Others

Attack Potency: City Block level (Was able to harm and defeat An Incarnation of the Radius. With the weapon gained from the true Final Boss, he was able to defeat all other bosses with one hit each)

TL;DR:
Pretty straightforward. Kirito & Others get the + for their City Block level key. That's it, folks.
Laser Dodging Feat also needs to be calculated...

Agree: (2) Dalesean027, DivineAura44

Disagree: (0)

Neutral: (1) Kaantantr

 

[Dalesean027]

Agreed

 

[DivineAura44]

Disagree, there's like 15 different problems with this CRT.

 

[Dalesean027]

Disagree, there's like 15 different problems with this CRT.

Is that for real or?? If so pls say why

 

[DivineAura44]

Is that for real or?? If so pls say why

Nah I'm just joking.

 

[RitsuØ1]

Nah I'm just joking.

I'm gonna take that as an agreement...

 

[DMUA]

They're clearly greatly inferior, which is why the + was discounted to begin with. Like, Sinon basically gets oneshot.

 

[RitsuØ1]

They're clearly greatly inferior, which is why the + was discounted to begin with. Like, Sinon basically gets oneshot.

But don't you still get the same tier even who you fought is greatly superior? I'll be back replying tomorrow.

 

[Kaantantr]

I am confused, what is exactly the basis of this argument? Is it the fact that he has the Floor 100 sword after defeating an Incarnation of the Radius or the fact that he defeated an Incarnation of the Radius?

Because:

1) Per Cordial Chords, Kirito gave the Floor 100 sword to Eiji for him to use it to save YUNA and there is 0 reference of him ever taking it back.

2) They raided Incarnation of the radius as a group of like... Top players of 3 different most popular VRMMO games where Kirito literally only landed the final shot while chilling in the back as everyone was doing massive DPS and boss counters non-stop.

Laser dodging is simply based on attack patterns and tells of the boss, simple game mechanic here that exists even in the games of today. Nothing to calculate here.

 

[RitsuØ1]

Laser dodging is simply based on attack patterns and tells of the boss, simple game mechanic here that exists even in the games of today. Nothing to calculate here.

That part was strikethroughed meaning it wasn't supposed to be taken seriously. When I strikethrough something, it's usually a joke.

I am confused, what is exactly the basis of this argument?

They don't have the same Attack Potency as the Incarnation of the Radius which has a +. I was proposing that others should get the + too for their key. At worst, if their Attack Potency can't be upgraded, their Durability can be upgraded to City Block level+.

 

[Kaantantr]

I'm sorry I wasn't clear enough. I was asking what exactly is the argument being made here that is giving substance to the recommended change. I am not even at a point where I can chime in with information because I do not exactly understand why exactly it is you are recommending the change.

Is it because they defeated an Incarnation of the Radius? At that point, there are a bunch of variables to take into account, like a huge group of non-standard players fighting a boss that was not designed for their available moveset that got temporarily converted in. Things are only simple if you ignore actual context.

Remember, before the arrival of ALO and GGO players, literally everybody were absolutely getting bodied by Ain-chan. I get the feeling you are trying to apply a cumulative power that transpired from the culmination of multiple dozen people from non-standard players into single individual Aincrad character keys. There is a lot more to talk about here and it is anything but simple due to the overall concept of the scene.

 

[RitsuØ1]

I'm sorry I wasn't clear enough. I was asking what exactly is the argument being made here that is giving substance to the recommended change. I am not even at a point where I can chime in with information because I do not exactly understand why exactly it is you are recommending the change.

Is it because they defeated an Incarnation of the Radius? At that point, there are a bunch of variables to take into account, like a huge group of non-standard players fighting a boss that was not designed for their available moveset that got temporarily converted in. Things are only simple if you ignore actual context.

Remember, before the arrival of ALO and GGO players, literally everybody were absolutely getting bodied by Ain-chan. I get the feeling you are trying to apply a cumulative power that transpired from the culmination of multiple dozen people from non-standard players into single individual Aincrad character keys. There is a lot more to talk about here and it is anything but simple due to the overall concept of the scene.

It was more like they were able to harm the Incarnation of the Radius tbh which would give them the same tier as him/her. My argument was that the players should get the same Attack Potency as the Incarnation of the Radius. That's literally it. Just adding the + to the player's profiles, or at least to their Durability. I know the name is supposed to be An Incarnation of the Radius but I don't want to mess up my grammar.

 

[Kaantantr]

they were able to harm the Incarnation of the Radius tbh which would give them the same tier as him/her

If that is how the standard is here, I have no objections. Though feels weird, since technically, everybody can harm everybody as long as they do not whiff their attack, there is no "Miss due to low level" gimmick in SAO since it is FullDive. :/

 

[RitsuØ1]

If that is how the standard is here, I have no objections. Though feels weird, since technically, everybody can harm everybody as long as they do not whiff their attack, there is no "Miss due to low level" gimmick in SAO since it is FullDive. :/

Wow. Is this the first time something both of us agreed on for once?

 

[Kaantantr]

It's not my place to say anything if you guys do a certain thing a certain way for everything ¯\(ツ)/¯

 

[DMUA]

But don't you still get the same tier even who you fought is greatly superior? I'll be back replying tomorrow.

That's why they're City Block level.

No single person does any significant damage so they wouldn't be +.

 

[RitsuØ1]

That's why they're City Block level.

No single person does any significant damage so they wouldn't be +.

If their Attack Potency can't get upgraded, can't their Durability get the + since they tanked his/her attacks?

 

[Kaantantr]

Mind you, I should not be on the list of people who agreed. I'm neutral, again if this is the standard, then I do not have anything to say against it despite find the decision janky due to all the variables involved.

If anything, I am neutral on this case. I just am not in a position to disagree if this is the standard. But the thing DMUA keeps bringing up makes me feel like this is not actually a standard.

 

[RitsuØ1]

Mind you, I should not be on the list of people who agreed. I'm neutral, again if this is the standard, then I do not have anything to say against it despite find the decision janky due to all the variables involved.

Sorry about that misunderstanding. It's fixed.

 

[DMUA]

If their Attack Potency can't get upgraded, can't their Durability get the + since they tanked his/her attacks?

Tanked

Sinon basically got oneshot from a single hit

 

[RitsuØ1]

Sinon basically got oneshot from a single hit

Yeah. I know Sinon got basically one-shotted but won't surviving from getting one-shotted give them the +? Or can this possibly be scaled to those who actually managed to tank hits from his/her such as Kirito and not to people like Sinon?

 

[Armorchompy]

if you barely survive a 8-A+ attack 8-A is probably correct yeah. dunno SAO just wanted to confirm this

 

[Antvasima]

I trust the judgements of DMUA and Armorchompy.

 

[CurrySenpai]

Not to revive an old thread but I feel as if Kirito and Asuna should get the + given they are the only people who seem to deal significant damage once they acquire their Sword Art Online data. Although that's mainly with their sword skills so maybe it could be City Block Level+ with Starburst Stream, Double Circular and Mother's Rosario? I don't know if that's how it works so apologies

 

[Antvasima]

@Kaantantr

What do you think about this?

 

[Kaantantr]

I think my take remains the same.

Mind you, I should not be on the list of people who agreed. I'm neutral, again if this is the standard, then I do not have anything to say against it despite find the decision janky due to all the variables involved.

If anything, I am neutral on this case. I just am not in a position to disagree if this is the standard. But the thing DMUA keeps bringing up makes me feel like this is not actually a standard.

I don't have an issue with what was said, they did indeed fight an Incarnation of the Radius and won. So I left it to those knowledgeable about how the standards are applied here.

I do find it weird to scale dozens of characters who came together to fight a single enemy to that single enemy due to the obvious power disparity between them that they are making up in sheer numbers, but if that is a standard on how to do things, it is not my place to say you should not do that. So I kinda have to leave it all to DMUA here.

 

[Antvasima]

Hmm. You do have a point.

Can somebody summarise what change exactly that was suggested here, and why, please? I do not remember anymore.

 

[CurrySenpai]

Hmm. You do have a point.

Can somebody summarise what change exactly that was suggested here, and why, please? I do not remember anymore.

The change that was originally suggested was that Kirito and the other characters who scale to it should receive the + on their AP and durability that An Incarnation Of the Radius has.

While I agree that characters such as Sinon among others should not be scaled to that calc I do believe that since Kirito, Asuna, and to a lesser extent Silica, Lisbeth, and Agil dealt some form of significant damage they should receive the same stats.

 

[RitsuØ1]

The change that was originally suggested was that Kirito and the other characters who scale to it should receive the + on their AP and durability that An Incarnation Of the Radius has.

While I agree that characters such as Sinon among others should not be scaled to that calc I do believe that since Kirito, Asuna, and to a lesser extent Silica, Lisbeth, and Agil dealt some form of significant damage they should receive the same stats.

So... You are saying that they should get 8-B+ AP but only have 8-B Durability or only Kirito & Asuna receives the +?

 

[CurrySenpai]

I am saying that Kirito and Asuna should definitely receive the + to their AP while Silica, Lisbeth and Agil could potentially receive the same stats

 

[Antvasima]

Did they withstand attacks from this characters against one person at a time?

 

[Antvasima]

What do you think @DMUA ?

 

[Kaantantr]

Did they withstand attacks from this characters against one person at a time?

They certainly did. However key reminder that bosses are technically designed in ways that they won't have one-hit-kill attacks in general and those that do, will telegraph it very clearly to avoid unfairness. So basically, the attacks would be designed to hurt you, but not kill you instantly, provided you are on level parity with the monster, regardless of the actual power of a monster.

It is quite an interesting topic, I remember talking about DMUA in the DMs about the concept (on a completely different topic as I was just exploring character keys to learn more about how things are done), however it is one that is really counterintuitive for decisions made here, due to a discrepancy all games inevitably have. Their disconnect between Storytelling/Lore and actual Gameplay

I think in general, that discrepancy is better glossed over or at the very least can be reasonably attributed to "being on the required level for a fight".

 

[CurrySenpai]

Did they withstand attacks from this characters against one person at a time?

Some characters get hit by the boss but as DMUA mentioned they get one shot. The only characters to really survive stuff are the 5 I mentioned (with the exception of Asuna she kinda never gets hit by an attack)

 

[Antvasima]

Did they withstand attacks from this characters against one person at a time?

They certainly did. However key reminder that bosses are technically designed in ways that they won't have one-hit-kill attacks in general and those that do, will telegraph it very clearly to avoid unfairness. So basically, the attacks would be designed to hurt you, but not kill you instantly, provided you are on level parity with the monster, regardless of the actual power of a monster.

It is quite an interesting topic, I remember talking about DMUA in the DMs about the concept (on a completely different topic as I was just exploring character keys to learn more about how things are done), however it is one that is really counterintuitive for decisions made here, due to a discrepancy all games inevitably have. Their disconnect between Storytelling/Lore and actual Gameplay

I think in general, that discrepancy is better glossed over or at the very least can be reasonably attributed to "being on the required level for a fight".

Some characters get hit by the boss but as DMUA mentioned they get one shot. The only characters to really survive stuff are the 5 I mentioned (with the exception of Asuna she kinda never gets hit by an attack)

@Everything12 @Duedate8898 @Planck69 @KingTempest @CrimsonStarFallen @UchihaSlayer96

Can any of you help evaluate how we should handle this please?

 

[Kaantantr]

I know this may overcomplicate things a little so feel free to completely ignore it if it's too much, but the Anime depiction of boss fights are never accurate, as these fights tend to take anywhere between 20 minutes to an hour, whereas Anime always has to shorten them to around 5 minutes of high octane action. Generally speaking, it should be a very reasonable assumption to make that the original entrees (Kirito, Lisbeth, Silica, Sinon, Agil) to the battle absolutely tanked attacks at some point as it's practically impossible for them not to given the nature of a floor boss raid, whereas the highly involved members in the climax portion likely had tanked an attack one way or another, at least the melee focused ones.

The main problem is that all of this assumes parity with the series, rather than portrayal standards of the Anime, since Ordinal Scale has no Light Novel to speak of due to being an Anime original and thus cannot be proven via citations. They solely rely on the knowledge of how Anime handles fights like these.

 

[DMUA]

What do you think @DMUA ?

I already shared my opinion

 

[DMUA]

I know this may overcomplicate things a little so feel free to completely ignore it if it's too much, but the Anime depiction of boss fights are never accurate, as these fights tend to take anywhere between 20 minutes to an hour, whereas Anime always has to shorten them to around 5 minutes of high octane action. Generally speaking, it should be a very reasonable assumption to make that the original entrees (Kirito, Lisbeth, Silica, Sinon, Agil) to the battle absolutely tanked attacks at some point as it's practically impossible for them not to given the nature of a floor boss raid, whereas the highly involved members in the climax portion likely had tanked an attack one way or another, at least the melee focused ones.

I get what you're going for, but what we actually see takes priority over what we'd probably see in another circumstance. They just can't do that much damage to it individually and they don't headlong take any more than one or two attacks

 

[Antvasima]

I already shared my opinion

Can you reiterate or quote it please?

 

[Antvasima]

That's why they're City Block level.

No single person does any significant damage so they wouldn't be +.

Never mind. I found it.

It seems like we shouldn't scale the characters higher then.