Power Rangers Dino Charge Downgrades

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Alright. First things first, I have no problem with the majority of the Power Ranger stats, and none of this comes from "the characters don't look that strong, so therefore they aren't", which is a terrible argument. This has solely to do with the Galaxy level AP applied to many characters in Power Rangers Dino Charge, which seems to be based around massive misconception.

It seems to be believed that when the characters reference "destroying galaxies", there are two things that are automatically true. The first is that they did this all with one shot, and the second is that this was done entirely with their own power. However, the series often suggests the opposite of this to be true.

Firstly, let's go over Badussa, who is scaled to galaxy level for mentions of destroying a galaxy. The problem here is that even Badussa's claims suggest he did not do this all at once. His exact words are "I haven't had this much fun since I destroyed the Kyoryuger Galaxy", which he says after turning multiple Rangers to stone. Now contextually, it is important to note that Badussa, like most of Sledge's prisoners, is an insane criminal who revels in destruction. One-shotting a galaxy would not be a "fun" experience for him, nor would a single galaxy be notable. Instead, it would make much more sense for him to ravage multiple worlds over time, enjoying the experience of spreading death and destruction. This is further substantiated when the remaining Rangers meet up with Heckyl, who actually clarifies something along these lines.

"He's devastated entire galaxies, and I know how that feels. My whole planet was destroyed by Lord Arcano so that he could possess the Dark Energem. Badussa was as bad as he was."

Not only does the use of "devestated" suggest destruction of multiple worlds over time as opposed to Badussa one-shotting a galaxy (which he couldn't even do thanks to range, which I will get into soon), but the immediate mention of Lord Arcanon destroying Sentai 6 and Badussa being as bad as he was heavily implies that Badussa, like Arcanon, travelled from planet to planet, laying waste to or destroying them and leaving galaxies devestated. Not that he blew up entire galaxies.

Since we mentioned both Heckyl and Sledge earlier, let's address another place this misconception comes from. When Sledge is planning to release Heckyl, the rest of the ship freaks out. When Sledge mentions him not being that dangerous, Wrench says, "But...but... I know of several destroyed galaxies that might beg to differ!", to which Sledge replies, "Bah! We've all destroyed galaxies!". Wrench then says, "Uh...not all of us...", implying that he has not "destroyed" any galaxies.

Let's give this some context. Heckyl is simply stated to have "destroyed galaxies". It is never stated this was done purely with his own power, in one shot, nor is any timeframe given. Wrench, who has not destroyed any galaxies and is terrified of Heckyl, was perfectly capable of holding his own against a few of the Rangers despite his overall cowardly nature. On top of this, Sledge mentions "We've all destroyed galaxies!", which further substantiates this is a process done over time, planet by planet. Allow me to elaborate...

When Sledge refuses to partner with Heckyl, Heckyl starts releasing prisoners, much to Sledge's chagrin. He orders Fury to stop them, which he does by promptly forcing them back into their cells. Fury, being among the strongest warriors on Sledge's ship, is one of said people who has "destroyed galaxies", which pretty much guarantees this is a process done over time and across many worlds. Ya see, in the very first episode of the series, Fury gets launched back down to Earth after the Keeper's bomb goes off in Sledge's ship. Once there, Fury confronts the Keeper, complaining that he is now stuck on Earth, since Sledge cannot come and retrieve him. This supports two things; Fury cannot fly out of Earth's atmosphere and back to Sledge's ship, and that Fury does not have the destructive capacity to blow up a planet, let alone a galaxy, so that he can escape. It makes much more sense for Fury, Sledge, and other characters with relatively abysmal range to have destroyed galaxies by laying waste to their inhabited planets.

So what tier should these characters be? The most logical answer would be in the Planet level ballpark. Not only is this consistent with the majority of the other Power Rangers series, but it is also more directly substantiated by claims made in the show. Lord Arcanon destroyed Sentai 6 on his own (and is implied to have done it very easily), while one of the prisoners on Sledge's ship is upset at Heckyl because he destroyed his entire home planet. Heckyl also suggests that Badussa, like Arcanon, has completely destroyed planets before, so this seems like the right way to go. Arcanon and anyone who scales to him would probably be "At least Planet level", while characters who are weaker but still in relatively the same league should just be straight up "Planet level".

Other stuff, such as speed, is fine, obviously.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that this seems reasonable.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I don't see how anyone can destroy a galaxy planet by planet in a reasonable span of time.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I don't see how anyone can destroy a galaxy planet by planet in a reasonable span of time.

Neither do I. But there doesn't have to be a "reasonable" amount of time, since all of these characters are at the very least 65 million years old and have been space criminals since the death of the dinosaurs. Pretty much all they do is sack planets for kicks or a greater goal.

 

[Antvasima]

Maybe 4-A instead then?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

That seems the most logical. But I would like input from people who know and like the series.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Maybe 4-A instead then?

The problem is that, again, none of them (except maybe Arcanon and Heckyl) have decent range on their own. Sledge, for instance, who is also said to have destroyed galaxies, has these following limitations; cannot fly without a jetpack, is only melee range without his weapons, needed his ship and a plan to destroy/drag away the Earth. It is literally impossible for him to destroy a galaxy on his own (not as in "it doesn't seem right", but as in "he literally cannot accomplish this without either some sort of tech or simply devestating it, instead"), which is the required assumption in order for his AP to be galaxy level.

It seems far more likely that Heckyl's statement of Badussa "devestating" galaxies is the most accurate, as any time we have seen these villains travelling, they've been going from planet to planet, and the best direct feat of destruction we have is Arcanon casually destroying Sentai 6.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay then.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I still want to get @The Everlasting's opinion.

 

[Antvasima]

You can leave him a message with a link to this thread, if you wish.

 

[Soldier_Blue]

^ We should notify Darkanine as well since he was also involved in those major Power Rangers upgrades.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I do, as well.

However, I also want to know if there are any instances of individual characters having galactic (or something even remotely similar) range in the series that I might have forgotten about, since the idea of these characters being capable of one-shotting galaxies relies on this, though everything we see in the show itself seems to contradict it and point to the "devestated" interpretation without this fact.

 

[Soldier_Blue]

I think there's a feat from Dino Thunder where Conner McKnight creates a dimension with a large galaxy at its heart.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I think there's a feat from Dino Thunder where Conner McKnight creates a dimension with a large galaxy at its heart.

If it's the feat I think you're referring to, that is from a different series of PR entirely (Dino Thunder as opposed to Dino Charge), and is also not something that should scale for combat purposes assuming we even take it as a real galaxy, since it is a pocket dimension inside of Connor's shield that has no effect on anything else unless he sucks an enemy in to attack them. It has no sway over Connor's own stats in any other circumstance.

Though considering Connor's pocket realm also contains what is literally an angular model of a black hole that doesn't do anything, transparent glowing computer chips, and a giant spider web which all materialize in a place with no set gravity, I'd be very hesitant to call it an actual black hole.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Of course it relates to his ranking. Having a galaxy inside your pocket dimension scales to your AP.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

How? It in no way affects his own personal power while outside the dimension, since he needs to be inside it to do anything, and makes no alterations to his physical strength.

It's like scaling all 40k daemons in the materium to things they can do in the Warp, and then scaling anyone who fights them in realspace to said Warp feats.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

The dimension exists because of him.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

The dimension exists because of him.

Nowhere is this directly stated. Considering this power is related to the shield itself, it's pretty much impossible Conner is constantly using Galactic energy to maintain this pocket dimension. In fact, it seems more likely the Shield of Triumph, a legendary relic, is what created the dimension, with Conner simply being able to control it while inside.

Of course, assuming the galaxy is legit, someone who defeated Conner in the Triassic Dimension would be At least 3-C. The key there is defeating him in the Triassic Dimension. Not just defeating him regularly.

 

[The_Everlasting]

I haven't seen Dino Charge myself, but I'm sorry, this seems like way too many assumptions made just for the sake of lowballing.

There are repeated statements of destroying galaxies, and assuming it just means destroying them planet by planet is absurd. It's like saying "We don't know the timeframe of God creating the universe in Supernatural, therefor it isn't universal". If Badussa literally brags that he's destroyed a galaxy, then there's no reason to assume he means he destroyed it planet by planet just because insane and loves destruction. It's like saying Super Dimentio would destroy the multiverse universe by universe just because he's crazy. "Devastate" is literally a synonym for "destroy", so using it doesn't really have any impact.

Heckyl is far from a baseline galaxy buster, seeing as how he casually vaporized several of Sledge's henchmen. The prisoners and henchmen aren't terrified of Heckyl because he destroyed galaxies, but because he's so powerful when compared to them, hence why Sledge doesn't really regard him as anything.

Of course, I'd rather wait for Darkanine's opinion, as he's watched Dino Charge himself.

And a minor thing, but Planet level Dino Charge being more "consistent" with the other seasons is meaningless when it doesn't have any connections to the other seasons.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I agree with The Everlasting completely.

A character's personality is meaningless to this discussions, and your arguments relating to "Devastating" and "Destroying" are semantics, and are making more assumptions than needed. Nothing implies that they were simply destroyed planet by planet over thousands of years, and then brag about it as "Destroying a galaxy."

 

[Dark649]

I also agree with The Everlasting.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

Contextually, I'm unsure why the writers would have so many allusions to galaxy busting if they didn't actually bust galaxies. Like ever said, if only destroyed planets or even stars, why would he brag about the galaxy? Like I said to Ever in chat awhile back, if their was like 1 or 2 mentions of galaxy busting, then I'd might consider it an hyperbole, but the mentions of destroying galaxies is quite common amongst multiple characters.

The only reason Lord Arcanon didn't just annihilate Sentai 6 (He didn't destroy it whole like you said either) was because it housed the Dark Energem, which Arcanon wanted to use. The same thing is with Earth, they don't just blow Earth up because it houses the Energems. Sledges driving motivation is to gain these objects so he can rule the universe. I don't see why destroying your driving goal makes anymore sense contextually.

Wrench didn't really hold his own against the Rangers either, he was stomped pretty easily near the end to the point where he exploded. He's pretty clearly one of Sledges weakest monsters, probably even weaker than Curio.

Also, for Heckyl. We never see Heckyl use any kind of advanced weaponry, nor is there any mention of this. To assume he used some never-mentioned superweapon to destroy a galaxy despite that never being mentioned sounds far to speculative to me.

Being consistent with other PR series is not a problem. It's strongly implied that Dino Charge is an alternate timeline given the fact that it retcons Dino Thunder and has dinosaurs existing side-by-side humans in the end, which Ninja Steel isn't following up on.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that The Everlasting and Darknanine seem to make sense. So, should the characters get 4-A ratings, or keep the previous ones?

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

I think the amount of galaxy busting statements across multiple characters should be enough to warrant a solid 3-C rating.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Ryukama]

I too think it's a bit much to think all these constant and plain "destroyed a galaxy" or "destroyed galaxies" statements are meant to be taken as "destroyed planet over planet under an extremely unreasonably long timeframe."

Or that a character who's never seen or said to be using any sort of weapons to have performed such a feat with a mysterious gadget that is never once shown, talked about or alluded to within the series.

I also fail to see how being an "insane criminal who revels in destruction" means that this character cannot have destroyed the galaxy at once. Couldn't just watching the destruction of such a massive area with countless lives in it be "fun" enough to watch for someone like him? I wouldn't think someone who loves causing major destruction and killing people requires billions upon billions of years doing absolutely nothing with his time except pain stakingly destroying each individual planet in order to have fun.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

The reason I'm making this revision thread is because I have watched Dino Charge, and don't believe these statements to be accurate. Not because I want to lowball the franchise.

Firstly, no one has actually addressed the limited range of the characters (sans Heckyl and Arcanon) and how it is not actually possible for them to have destroyed galaxies in the sense people are implying. As I already mentioned, Fury, who is one of Sledge's strongest henchmen, should obviously be included in Sledge's "destroyed galaxies" statement. However, upon falling to Earth 65 million years ago, Fury was unable to simply leave. These characters busting galaxies seems to rely on the assumption that these are similar to DBZ characters, who can fly and project some sort of massive energy blast, which is shown to not be the case for the vast majority of them. Many of them cannot fly, cannot travel through space without a ship, and do not have any sort of large scale energy attack. Again, I stress there is no way for certain characters to have simply busted galaxies through raw power alone.

As for the matter of Sledge, people seem to again be ignoring the context of Sledge not simply wiping out everyone on the surface or devestating the world. At this point, Sledge had already killed Lord Arcanon and aquired the Dark Energem, yet his plan was to release six Greenzillas and have them destroy everything on the planet. When that plan fails, his backup plan is to use his ship to magnetically pull Earth and sell it to a scrap dealer. Sledge could not just wipe out the surface of Earth himself. The excuse of "he was just lazy" doesn't apply either, as he treats his plan and backup plan as big deals that he doesn't want ruined.

I am not willing to overlook the restrictions characters actually show because of statements without any given timeframe or context, especially when said characters have shown specific limitations and lower levels of power when they are actually in the show. I believe that to be disingenuous and taking things heavily out of context.

If I say "The Tyranids have destroyed dozens of galaxies", is this statement true? Yes, but it is lacking any and all context. Should we rate any and all Tyranids as 3-C to 3-B because we assume they did this all at once in the past, and are not doing so to the Milky Way for the sake of plot? No, because it is a blatant misrepresentation of the feat.

Again, I am going to list a few things that have not been properly addressed, and cannot just be glossed over:

• Many of these characters do not have range beyond melee range.

• Many of these characters cannot fly, nor can they travel through space without a ship.

• We are given multiple instances of different characters' homeworlds being stated to have been directly attacked and destroyed, as opposed to multiple galaxies being destroyed all at once.

Every single thing in the actual show points to these being characters who devestate galaxies over large periods of time, and also will stop to directly and personally assault inhabited worlds (not just Arcanon. Heckyl did this to a random alien's homeworld for kicks).

If the only evidence we have is "There are repeated statements of galaxy busting", that is far from enough to overwrite what we actually see, the limitations we know certain characters possess, and being shown and told about specific planets within galaxies being attacked. Ignoring all of this shows either immense amounts of bias, or simply the refusal to take what we are actually shown over out of context statements. We would never, ever do this for most other franchises, and I don't see why we should do so, here. Obviously discussion is key and something like this should not be blindly accepted, but the same is true for the galactic statements. We should not automatically assume context, nor that it was done all at once, without delving into the context of the actual show.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I wouldn't think someone who loves causing major destruction and killing people requires billions upon billions of years doing absolutely nothing with his time except pain stakingly destroying each individual planet in order to have fun.

That is literally all some of these characters do. Sledge is a bounty hunter, but most are just genocidal maniacs. It's like saying "I don't think Kid Buu would waste his time paintakingly destroying separate planets and stars". It's not painstaking for them. It's how they have fun.

 

[Ryukama]

Well Kid Buu was explicitly stated/shown to have done his destroying of the galaxy over a gradual period of time.

And I'm not saying that it's impossible for this character to want to destroy the galaxy over time. Just that "they're insane and love destruction" isn't a good reason to conclude they did this gradually (especially not planet at a time) if nothing else in the series shows or suggests that.

"This doesn't automatically have to conclude to that" =/= "this cannot conclude to that." I am saying the former.

If there are other things to suggest the destruction was done gradually that is fine. But I don't see that particular point being the best.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Well Kid Buu was explicitly stated/shown to have done his destroying of the galaxy over a gradual period of time.
And I'm not saying that it's impossible for this character to want to destroy the galaxy over time,. Just that "they're insane and love destruction" isn't a good reason to conclude they did this gradually (especially not planet at a time) if nothing else in the series shows or suggests that.

This doesn't automatically have to conclude to that =/= this cannot conclude to that.

Yes. That is the important thing here. Context. Also, the point wasn't a relation of power, but to show why certain characters would actually do these things, over a long period of time. It's all they do, and it's fun for them. Sledge is a bounty hunter. Arcanon craves the ultimate power. Most of the others just destroy things for their own enjoyment.

Everything in the series suggests that, though. Again, all showings we get from these characters imply this is not something done at once. It is just assumed to be due to the vagueness of the statement and no timeframe given. The statement "The Tyranids have destroyed a dozen galaxies" is a true statement. It does not mean they did so all at once.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

If there are other things to suggest the destruction was done gradually that is fine. But I don't see that particular point being the best.

It's more the fact that we have examples of specific planets being attacked and many of these characters travelling by ship/not having decent range on their own. The other thing was only to express why he found it "fun".

 

[Ryukama]

Well as I edited into my post "If there are other things to suggest the destruction was done gradually that is fine."

I'll just wait to see what other knowledgable members have to say.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Well as I edited into my post "If there are other things to suggest the destruction was done gradually that is fine."
I'll just wait to see what other knowledgable members have to say.

I think I Ninja'd you.

 

[Ryukama]

Lol yeah.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

Like I said, the only reason Sentai 6 and Earth were attacked individually was because they were valuable to Arcanon and Sledges respective plans.

Also, we don't see Sledges ship pack any sort of weaponry outside of the Magnabeam, which isn't a direct weapon. I think the only real weapon Sledge has been shown to use is a small blaster empowered by the Purple Energem near the end of Dino Charge.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Like I said, the only reason Sentai 6 and Earth were attacked individually was because they were valuable to Arcanon and Sledges respective plans.
Also, we don't see Sledges ship pack any sort of weaponry outside of the Magnabeam, which isn't a direct weapon. I think the only real weapon Sledge has been shown to use is a small blaster empowered by the Purple Energem near the end of Dino Charge.

I'm going to use this example again because it's fitting.

"The Tyranids have destroyed dozens of galaxies" "A thousand galaxies have been destroyed by the Tyranids."

Do we know how long this took? No. Do we know exactly how this was done? No. However, from the Tyranids currently invading the Milky Way, we see their method of devouring planets, their invasions, and how they convert biomass to more Tyranids. Therefore, we can assume the other galaxies were destroyed in a similar way; world by world.

"We've all destroyed galaxies!" "I know of several destroyed galaxies that might beg to differ!"

Do we know how long this took? No. Do we know exactly how it was done? No. However, from what both Lord Arcanon and Sledge do, we see plans put in motion, means of FTL intergalactic travel are used, and that these are characters who need a planet to actually battle on. Therefore, we can assume the galaxies were destroyed in a similar way; world by world.

There is nothing to suggest these galaxies were destroyed all at once, for both sets of quotes, save for their vagueness, while there are multiple things to suggest they weren't.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I have to admit that Azathoth is making a very good case. We do in fact tend to be much stricter with unfounded statements that clearly contradict what has been shown.

 

[Pikachu942]

Dino Charge is the only series I haven't fully watched yet/

However, I think both sides make excellent cases, though I think I'm leaning on Azzy's side for this one.

However, due to the fact that they had to have destroyed multiple stars in the process of annihilating a galaxy, somewhere in Tier 4 I think is better than merely planet level.

Also, as for Connor, it is indeed directly stated that the Shield of Triumph created the Triassic Dimension under its own power, meaning if you were able to overpower it, like Zeltrax did as he was able to contend with its battlizer form, you should logically be on par with him.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Also, as for Connor, it is indeed directly stated that the Shield of Triumph created the Triassic Dimension under its own power, meaning if you were able to overpower it, like Zeltrax did as he was able to contend with its battlizer form, you should logically be on par with him.

Do you have the scene or quote? Because if that's the case, then yeah, anyone who overpowers the shield itself should scale.

On the subject of Dino Charge, due to how casual the destruction of planets and devestation of vast sectors of space is, it would be completely fair to add some sort of "Likely ____" or probably "Likely far higher" for characters who are worth their salt.

 

[Reppuzan]

Personally, I'm leaning more towards TheEverlasting's and Darkanine's argument.

Power Rangers is not a series known for its subtlety and complexity. When they say something has blown up, it's probably blown up very quickly. I understand that we're not given a timeframe, but given that very few verses say, "we've destroyed galaxies", and then go on to describe how it's done over time.

I know this sounds like a flimsy argument, but it's against the very nature of the show's tone to describe destroying galaxies as blowing up their constituents one at a time.