Possible Whis Speed upgrade

[EnderShadowr215]

@Hue Alright, but in any case the distance wasn't been shown exactly and even then that could cause problems.

 

[Huesito88]

The kaio shin is 1/10 and the planet is in the center of all that that is the distance

 

[EnderShadowr215]

Also one more thing I need to note it is possible they could have conceal their ki, but that is more like another assumption that is just likely one.

I meant the distance that Whis did to travel where Gowaru was.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

You can't base the universe in a chibi model for it. Stars are just Suns, been small means they are far away.

The distance is unqualified, since we don't know where they were at the time. The timeframe to get too Earth could have been the same 20 minutes we had earlier in Super. Nothing suggest Whis has have training, and increase his speed. This thread is just speculation, base on a assumption.

The model, however, doesn't seem contradicted by the few shots we have of the realm in the manga, or anime (which replaces the suns with moons for the U7 realm for some reason ). if Kaioshin realms were filled with more stars than the ones in close proximity they would be visible in a shot from space, so the same should apply to U10.
Actually the return to earth from universe 10 could also qualify as a speed upgrade since they went from universe 10 to 7 without KaiKai or IT and in less than a hour at worst considering the sun's position didn't change at all during from the time they were on U10 and the time they returned.

Universe 7 and U10 are not parallel to each other. Base on that we can't assume so. And you had the view difference in this episode.

Yes, they did travel. However there are two things missing, the distance between U7 and U10 + the timeframe which is anyone's guess a.k.a an assumption since we don't know how long it took them. The sun position varies by hours, no enough evidence for a calc.

 

[Nibbler3100]

Dayumm Whis get's more impressive every episode

 

[Huesito88]

Yeah the planet where gowasu was in 1/20 of the universe even though I swear that the kaio shin realm was 1/5 of our universe not. Also it hard to conceal your ki when your trying to go really fast like whis. King Kai could be feel whis and beerus in their flight before they came to his planet

 

[EnderShadowr215]

@Hue To be fair Gomaru was drinking his tea with his food and Zamusa was fully focused on killing him. If I not mistaken, sensing Ki require focus doesn't it?

 

[AguilaR101]

Universe 7 and U10 are not parallel to each other. Base on that we can't assume so. And you had the view difference in this episode.


Latest manga chapter has a model of the 10th universe and is basically the same as U7, so it isn't a baseless assumption to say they are similar.

Manga is secondary canon too, and as far as cosmology goes it has been pretty consistent with the anime.

 

[LordXcano]

we don`t assume such unless it`s indecated as such. also we see whis travelling physically to kaio`s planet directly, we never saw him creat/open portals in any moment of super. that`s called strawman

He opened portal to go to his own dimension. How else do you suggest he went to Kaioshin realm? You can't physically travel to a separate dimension using speed.

show me whis opening a portal to travel. and yes, you can. bronze saint`s travelled from hyperdimenion to elyshin which are seperate dimensions, flash has trancended space-time just by going too fast, superman travlled through universes with raw speed alone etc etc. you can`t cherrypick when it comes to DB that`s called starwman
You're correct in your points but that isn't a strawman it's more like... double-standards? Cherry-picking? One of those.

 

[Ryukama]

A strawman is unintentionally/intentionally misrepresenting one's argument and refuting the false interpretation of the point.

Silly example. But let's say I said "We shouldn't trust Bob just because he has a blue hat."

If someone then said "Ryukama, you hate people with blue hats."

That would be strawmanning me. They claimed I said something that I indeed did not.

Let's not derail this thread though.

 

[Antvasima]

Given everything that appears to be unclear regarding this feat, I think that it seems better to use the current one.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Silly example. But let's say I said "We shouldn't trust Bob just because he has a blue hat."

If someone then said "Ryukama, you hate people with blue hats."

That would be strawmanning me. They claimed I said something that I indeed did not.

You blue hat hating piece of shit.

On a serious note, I'm not sure. Faisal is correct that the Kaioshin realm is separated from the main universe, though universes in Dragon Ball seem more...fluid? Like it's easier to travel between them, sometimes? Not sure.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Imo whis can travel to the kaioshin realms because of some sort of dimensional ability that is mixed with his speed. It's been established that the kaioshin realms are separate and normally impossible to get to without like the kai's teleportation or goku's IT, it's not a place you can just fly to yet whis is doing this very same thing, either the rules have been retconned or whis can travel to other dimensions but it's not an instantaneous thing and he has to get as close to as possible to the kaioshin realm and then pass right through the dimensional barrier between the living world and the kaioshin realm.

 

[Victor2]

1. LordExacon, @Ryuksama thanx. i`m still learning since english isn`t my launguge

 

[Ryukama]

@Victor no problem man. Your grammar is quite good for someone without English as their first language though.

Also here is a further list explaining logical fallacies like strawmanning.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Fallacy

But once again let's get back on topic.

 

[Victor2]

Given everything that appears to be unclear regarding this feat, I think that it seems better to use the current one.

honestly, it`s pretty straight foword type a speed feat whiout using any Double-Standard

whis has showen the capacity to travel between dimensions with raw speed alone. he has never, i REPEAT never showen to use any portals to travel between dimensions. he travels using his stuff which warps space, and beerus is 3/4 of whis`s stuff`s speed.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

Universe 7 and U10 are not parallel to each other. Base on that we can't assume so. And you had the view difference in this episode.

Latest manga chapter has a model of the 10th universe and is basically the same as U7, so it isn't a baseless assumption to say they are similar.
Manga is secondary canon too, and as far as cosmology goes it has been pretty consistent with the anime.

Actually, that model was from Universe 7, they were in the Supreme Kai's planet which doesn't exist in U10. Since they are not parallel to each other. Now before you replied, gather the evidence that is actually U10 as you claim and not U7.

 

[Dragon_Emperor_lV]

Universe 7 and U10 are not parallel to each other. Base on that we can't assume so. And you had the view difference in this episode.

Latest manga chapter has a model of the 10th universe and is basically the same as U7, so it isn't a baseless assumption to say they are similar.
Manga is secondary canon too, and as far as cosmology goes it has been pretty consistent with the anime.

Actually, that model was from Universe 7, they were in the Supreme Kai's planet which doesn't exist in U10. Since they are not parallel to each other. Now before you replied, gather the evidence that is actually U10 as you claim and not U7.
You're wrong.

Evidence:

 

[AguilaR101]

This is a scan from the latest chapter, explictly stated on the first panel.
After that Kai and Kibito teleport away which further confirms this is not their home universe

I don't see a reason to not trust the manga cosmology unless the anime contradicts what is shown.

 

[EnderShadowr215]

And yet you did not answer my question on if sensing Ki requires focus. That chapter scan show Zamasu fighting Kibito there.

 

[Antvasima]

The manga story seems to diverge a bit from the anime canon though.

In any case, I think that the currently listed Whis feat is fine, given that it is more straightforward, and easily measured, without uncertainties regarding the distance and mode of transportation.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

Fair enough. Two things missing that will be needed for a calc; the exact distance, and the timeframe. Without assumptions of course. Good luck.

 

[EnderShadowr215]

Well it doesn't show that scene in the DBS anime so that can cause confusion there. Also I think that might be Future Kibito.

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

. show me whis opening a portal to travel. and yes, you can. bronze saint`s travelled from hyperdimenion to elyshin which are seperate dimensions, flash has trancended space-time just by going too fast, superman travlled through universes with raw speed alone etc etc. you can`t cherrypick when it comes to DB that`s called starwman

What strawman are you talking about? The kaioshin realm is a separate dimension inside seventh universe, you can't travel to another dimension with pure speed. As for Flash he has access to speed force, Flash can literally outrun the concept of both time and death (thanks to speedforce which Whis doesn't have). I am no expert on Saint Seiya so I missed your analogy there. But there's no double standard here.

Also this calc is assuming Whis travlled the entire distance of Kaioshin realm (talk about highball) when he could've entered the realm from any direction and the distance could be much, much shorter. We're too lenient towards Dragon Ball to overlook this simple things. There's zero proof Whis travelled any significant distance let alone the entire dimension. This calc is based on highballed assumption in an attempt to boost speed for the verse. The current one is far better with solid timeframe, distance and logical reasoning.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with Faisal.

 

[Nibbler3100]

Wow this is a massive speed feat Whis even placed the glove on Zamasu's hand mid-travel without anybody noticing including Zamasu

 

[LordXcano]

I just watched the feat. We do in fact see him physically travelling, just not the entire distance as it cuts to Zamasu.

 

[Ryukama]

I am not giving an opinion in this thread but @Smoak you have already been asked by an admin to stop being condescending and sarcastic (to which you still did not listen to) once along with another time since then.

I highly suggest you stop adressing others in such a manner.

 

[Ryukama]

I don't care how much you disagree with Faisal's statement. When you have been warned twice by admins to stop acting sarcastic and hostile, it is best to not behave in such a manner. You can simply tell him why you disagree or ask him for an explanation in a normal fashion.

I'm pretty sure after 3 staff warnings now others are not going to be very leniant with your behavior.

 

[AguilaR101]

Also this calc is assuming Whis travlled the entire distance of Kaioshin realm (talk about highball) when he could've entered the realm from any direction and the distance could be much, much shorter. We're too lenient towards Dragon Ball to overlook this simple things. There's zero proof Whis travelled any significant distance let alone the entire dimension. This calc is based on highballed assumption in an attempt to boost speed for the verse. The current one is far better with solid timeframe, distance and logical reasoning.

The calc works by using the radius of the kaioshin realm as the distance since the planet sits at the very center, so no matter where they start from they will still have to cross a distance that is equivalent to 1/20th of the universe's diameter (since the kaioshin realm is in its totality 1 /10th of the universe in size)

The only reason you would believe they would start anywhere besides the edge of the realm is the assumption that Whis can create portals to arbitrarily skip distance and that's not consistent with the way he has been shown to travel before.

He didn't open up portals when going from the North Kaio's planet (afterlife) back to earth, nor did he do that when he travelled to other universes.

 

[Huesito88]

I will adimit it isn't stated if they left or not so We don't know if they were still in the kaio shin realm or out of it

 

[Antoniofer]

I'm going to agreed with Faisal here, if the Kaishin Realm is in another dimension/sub-universe then can't accessed to it via common flying speed, also, if they do that they not necessary need to appear in the edge of said dimension/sub-universe; most likely is part of the "Warp" ability as was said by @Starkiller (I don't remember that term being used in the serie tho)

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

The calc works by using the radius of the kaioshin realm as the distance since the planet sits at the very center, so no matter where they start from they will still have to cross a distance that is equivalent to 1/20th of the universe's diameter (since the kaioshin realm is in its totality 1 /10th of the universe in size)

The only reason you would believe they would start anywhere besides the edge of the realm is the assumption that Whis can create portals to arbitrarily skip distance and that's not consistent with the way he has been shown to travel before.
He didn't open up portals when going from the North Kaio's planet (afterlife) back to earth, nor did he do that when he travelled to other universes.

Whis doesn't skip distance when he travels in the same dimension. But how is he supposed to enter the Kaioshin realm with pure speed? Do you see the Kaioshin realm in this picture below?


As for the Kaio planet being in the center of the realm, the same map shows Earth near the center of universe. That is directly contradicted by what is told in the anime




You might not be aware that we don't use the previous model of universe for DBS anymore since it has been retconned by the anime completely. That's why we can't use the map shown in the manga since it's diverged from the anime and is using contradictory information

 

[Antvasima]

I think that Faisal makes sense.

 

[AguilaR101]

I'll concede then, on the possibility that everything in the universe is contained in the same space as shown,

however your reasoning for dismissing the way the kai realm is organized is like is outright wrong, earth isn't even close to the center of the universe in that model plus the anime shows the same model to us in an earlier episode, that along with the fact every depiction of the kai planet in the manga or anime matches up with it there is no reason to believe the planet isn't sitting at the very center.