Possible Saiyan Saga FTL feat?

[The_real_cal_howard]

Then I should upgrade every Pokemon to MHS at the very least, as even the smallest electrical attack has been shown with speeds comparable to other electrical attacks that were comparable to true lightning.

 

[The_Everlasting]

I don't think Pokemon is allowed to powerscale like that.

 

[SomebodyData]

They have? Didn't know they were shown side by side

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Pikachu's attack has been slightly faster than true lightning here. Not to mention the many times its shown electric attacks that are very similar to the speed of Magnemite's. Heck, with the logic being used here, Pikachu should just be MHS+ because it scales to Magnemite, who's basic attacks are true lightning speed. But no. We scale it to Pikachu dodging it.

 

[The_Everlasting]

"Heck, with the logic being used here, Pikachu should just be MHS+ because it scales to Magnemite, who's basic attacks are true lightning speed. But no. We scale it to Pikachu dodging it."

What kind of logical leap are you using here? If we apply the speed in the calc to make a calc of Raditz dodging the attacks, that's calc stacking. You're arguing a point that goes against your previous arguments.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Here's where my analogy works though. Unlike Piccolo, Magnemite's attacks being lightning speed are because of Magnemite's state of being. Meaning no matter if it chooses to or not, the electricity it releases has to be lightning speed. It wasn't calced. It wasn't assumed. And with the logic that we're currently using for Raditz, Magnemite should be Mach 1200(?) instead of Mach 700.

 

[The_Everlasting]

His attacks would be MHS+, but Pikachu is still only MHS for dodging them.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

What?! This is the same logic that you're currently using for Raditz staying the speed he's at. We didn't even calc Raditz's movement. We said "He dodged Piccolo's beam? Therefore he's Piccolo's beam speed."

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

This is all complete wank, involves calc stacking, too many assumptions, and this is fully contradicted by the Freeza Saga, where all the characters until Goku (Post Zenkai Boost) take hours to travel across planetary distances.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

@Matt when do characters take hours to cross planetary distances?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

All the times Krillin and Gohan (Who at that point were superior to Raditz-era Piccolo) take hours to go from one point of Namek to another.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

How do you know it took them hours and that they where going their full speed is their a scan that says this?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

They did took at the very least numerous minutes, and even Vegeta Post-Zenkai going at full speed couldn't cross the planet instantly.

Saying that there are FTL characters in the Saiyan Saga is ridiculous.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Well even Andriod & Buu saga characters take time to cross earth are they now slower then Frieza saga Goku?

 

[Lina_Shields]

@AnimeFanboy: Note that we have a specific rule in regards to not using the anime as a canon source, unless the author of the series itself was directly involved in the creation of that series. For example, Dragon Ball Super was actually written by the author of the Dragon Ball franchise itself, Akira Toriyama, while Dragon Ball Z was not.

If we are going by the number of panels that Piccolo's beam reached the Moon, it only happened within 2 panels, max. By that logic, the maximum time that should be used here would be about 30 seconds (in comparison to 4 panels = 60 seconds). It may/may not be lower/higher, but at least it has some mathematical basis instead of being randomly pulled out of nowhere.

Also, if anyone here is planning to use two seconds as the timeframe for Piccolo's beam speed, forget it. We are currently using 60 seconds for the Fairy Tail meteor calculation. There is absolutely no way that we are going to use two seconds for Piccolo's beam speed, especially considering that by using two seconds as a timeframe, we get a Piccolo's beam speed of Mach 564796, or Relativistic+. That is already 60% of the speed of this calc, which was performed by a version of Goku that is far faster/stronger than the one from the Namek Saga. I see absolutely no reason that why Piccolo's beam speed should be anywhere near Frieza's Death Beam speeds, which was actually stated to be a flash of light.

Now then, about Piccolo's moon speed feat.

@Cal: Let's go over some things in regards to calc stacking. This quote will be referred as an example.

Calc stacking refers to the practice of using results from one calculation in order to calculate other feats.
	~ Calc stacking​

Now, let's look at the speed of Piccolo's beam speed here. Since when was the last time said result of this beam speed used in a different calculation? I would like you to link me a calc or two that uses it, if you can.

Regarding Raditz and Piccolo/Goku, Considering that even a three to four times power gap between two combatants is significant enough that Raditz casually blitzed Piccolo & Goku in terms of speed. I see absolutely no reason that why Raditz would be able to react and dodge any of Piccolo's beam speeds, especially considering that Raditz was able to dodge an incoming full-powered Kamehameha from Goku, and even caught it without much difficulty.

There is no reason to conclude that a Goku's full-powered Kamehameha would be any slower than a casual blast that Piccolo launched onto the Moon, considering that from what we have seen in Dragonball Z, stronger characters are going to fire faster attacks in comparison to weaker characters. That is why weaker characters are not able to perceive or even react to the oncoming attacks in question. I do not think that Piccolo was stronger than Raditz during the time Piccolo blew up the Moon, in any case.





Example: Raditz fires an energy blast towards Goku, and Goku could not even dodge it, nor even react to it.


So basically, what your argument should be at this point is, "Why would Raditz not be able to dodge/react to Piccolo's beam casually when he reacted to a beam that could be argued as comparable in speed (as it was a beam that was fired at full power by a user comparable to Piccolo's power)?"

Another example of this would be when Frieza fires off a Death Beam towards Dende, and Piccolo w/Nail, Gohan, and Krillin could not even perceive/react to it, because said beam was fired by a vastly stronger character than the three. So basically, in Dragonball Z, stronger characters tend to fire off faster attacks, which would include Ki beams/lasers as well.

Finally, let's cover Pokemon, and how Pokemon is extremely inconsistent in terms of speed.

Note that Pokemon seems to be an exception to the rule in terms of speed scaling, as the feats in Pokemon seem to vary wildly from the games, anime, and the manga. For example, Magnemite/Pikachu were shown to be much faster than Cynthia's Garchomp in terms of definition (Garchomp only being said to be Supersonic+ in speed). However, you can argue that any of opponents that Pikachu faced that dodged Pikachu's lightning bolts should have in fact, Massively Hypersonic speeds for doing so, as well as all the Pokemon that are much stronger than the ones Pikachu faced in combat, even if their Pokedex Entries says otherwise.

It seems that Pokemon is not a good example of speed scaling, as the feats in Pokemon differ too wildly in terms of speed. Especially in this example, where said stormcloud seems to move as fast as the lightning bolt that comes down from the sky.

 

[SunWukong1986]

I made a blog on this if you want to check it out.

Sure. Why not.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

It took me forever to see that, Lina, so sorry for responding late. Anyway, I wouldn't care so much if people didn't assume he was the same speed as the attack when for literally every other fiction, we actually calc the distance moved in proportion and such. It's a double standard.

Pikachu has several feats of his own lightning being the speed of lightning, and Magnemite's state of being makes its attacks speed of lightning. Whether Pokémon is inconsistent or not, Pikachu should be MHS+ with the logic we're using for this. Heck, all bullet timers should be Supersonic+, all lightning timers should be MHS+, and all light timers should be SoL. Pokémon was just the first example to come into my head.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

@Cal, look Black Star profile for example, he scale from Mifune, who dodged bullets that were calc'd at Hypersonic+, but trying to fine Mifune speed for that would be calc stacking


So it's the same here, we calculate Piccolo's attack speed, but since trying to calc raditz speed from that would be calc stacking, we simply gave him a higher speed because he is faster than Piccolo